alyster Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Yukon Don' timestamp='1327904506' post='2910338']Over the past few weeks Ragnarok has faced a storm as we came under leadership that didn’t share the spirit of our culture, nor the values of our charter. This was not a coup led for popularity or any frivolous cause.[/quote] Is the spirit of and culture of Ragnarok defined solely by your forum admin? Because as far as I've heard, those who don't worship you are banned. Nice going, but I must admit I like it, makes it so much easier to roll rok. Edited January 30, 2012 by alyster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2269 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1327925911' post='2910541'] It's not a coup, a group of people decided they weren't what was best for the alliance and decided to remove them in a way that circumvented the charter of the alliance. [/quote] I think you will find a coup is only a coup if shaneprice is involved. As he does not reside in RoK this cannot be defined as a coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='simon2269' timestamp='1327927318' post='2910545'] I think you will find a coup is only a coup if shaneprice is involved. As he does not reside in RoK this cannot be defined as a coup. [/quote] Hello RoKKers my name is Chief Savage Man and you know what that means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1327907020' post='2910420'] Bet all those "RoK doomsday" callers feel pretty stupid in light of this and this http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108803&st=0 [/quote] Don't worry guys NATO has their back! RoK is saved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 There's no point in arguing if it was allowable by their charter or not. Right or wrong, illegal or unscrupulous, Ragnarok is going to blindly follow their cult leaders. Instead we should focus our attention on being amused at gradual decline. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1327929903' post='2910558'] There's no point in arguing if it was allowable by their charter or not. Right or wrong, illegal or unscrupulous, Ragnarok is going to blindly follow their cult leaders. Instead we should focus our attention on being amused at gradual decline. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img] [/quote] Or we just put them out of their misery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1327929903' post='2910558'] There's no point in arguing if it was allowable by their charter or not. Right or wrong, illegal or unscrupulous, Ragnarok is going to blindly follow their cult leaders. Instead we should focus our attention on being amused at gradual decline. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL5.jpg[/img] [/quote] Why keep it gradual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1327929945' post='2910559'] Or we just put them out of their misery? [/quote] To be honest, I kind of want to watch this train-wreck go on for a few more days... Just until it stops being fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1327925911' post='2910541'] It's not a coup, a group of people decided they weren't what was best for the alliance and decided to remove them in a way that circumvented the charter of the alliance. [/quote] So as a matter of fact it only matters when it's a former puppet being deposed, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1327934567' post='2910590'] So as a matter of fact it only matters when it's a former puppet being deposed, correct? [/quote] what the $%&@ are you talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 So if this is the legitimate government of Rok, is this where I direct my question concerning the nuke sandwich controversy of the Mushroom Kingdom received this morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da DreadLord Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327935520' post='2910597'] So if this is the legitimate government of Rok, is this where I direct my question concerning the nuke sandwich controversy of the Mushroom Kingdom received this morning? [/quote] Raids have their dangers.. nukes are one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1327935441' post='2910596'] what the $%&@ are you talking about [/quote] Your previous post insinuated that the proceedings that took place were illegal, whether or not that is so I am hinting at the hypocrisy and bias predicated someone whom p much was a puppet (see everyone faux caring about him being gone + the added bonus that some are hoping to use it to exercise a long-held grudge against Ragnarok,) vs. another time in recent memory where there was decidedly less outcry. Is that not a fair assertion to make? ad-hominem, ad-hominem yellow banana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1327918439' post='2910509'] If possible, would you please explain how it is possible, under the RoK charter, for you to remove Bob and Joe? [/quote][quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1327921828' post='2910523'] The Emperor of Ragnarok is Emperor for life. They are not elected, nor can there be a vote of no confidence in them. The route that Adel appears to have ascended to the throne is through a coup d'etat of Bob and Joe. [/quote] Bob Ilyani, the Emperor, left Ragnarok and applied to TOP. He left. A new Emperor stepped up. It's pretty simple. [quote name='AtheistRepublican' timestamp='1327926211' post='2910543'] From what I understand, they did make their case to the membership. The membership's response was outrage, which led to the removal and then the ban. However, I do admit that there is not a whole lot of detail being released. On the other hand, Bobby Joe's removal has sparked the return of some very longstanding RoK members who left because of their actions. Soooo...you know, as I said, if this isn't really supported by the membership, I suspect we'll find out soon enough. But I have seen nothing but a united front in all the interactions I have had with RoK members so far, and no, that does not just include the new gov't. [/quote] Bob did indeed post an explanation of events to the membership of Rok, which he c/p'ed to me, and which I will now post, redacting some OOC info to respect the privacy of Hoo and KaitlinK. <BobIlyani> it's more complicated than that * BobIlyani sighs <Schattenmann> Sell me <BobIlyani> this is perhaps the 20th time I've explained this today... give me a moment <Schattenmann> c/p <BobIlyani> yeah will do <BobIlyani> As you may know, there has been a recent incident involving our alliance, the Mushroom Kingdom, and our former leaders in Van Hoo III and KaitlinK. For the purposes of clarity, and in order to keep things under a decent semblance of order, I’m going to outline everything that proceeded this event. Plenty of people have made rash decisions due to lack of information and I will be 100% open to you in this thread and in the IRC chann <BobIlyani> when you will inevitably come around to ask questions. <BobIlyani> [At this point Bob recounts OOC events surrounding [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108327"]this thread[/url]] <BobIlyani> It is worth noting at this point that neither Kaitlin or Hoo are or were current members of Ragnarok- both have been given the former Emperor mask as a tribute to their successes, but neither are part of Ragnarok. Hoo resigned a few months back in order to start The Bear Cavalry, and Kaitlin resigned after the war ended in order to join her husband, though due to her RL situation she did not change her in-game Alliance Affiliation. <BobIlyani> c/p'ed from the RoK forums <BobIlyani> [OOC] <BobIlyani> Last night, representatives from the Mushroom Kingdom came to us wondering if Kaitlin and Hoo were protected by the Ragnarok AA. Since they have both resigned with good warning before the date, the government considered them to be no longer protected by Ragnarok. MK subsequently began to raid their nations. <BobIlyani> The issue that many people have here is that Hoo and Kaitlin are were “given away” to people who subsequently raided them. That is not the case, as I have shown, since both Kaitlin and Hoo resigned the alliance with significant time before the request itself took place. They were not “given away”, instead they were simply given the due time to move AAs and then, when they did not move in the time given, protection of them w <BobIlyani> dropped and raiding commenced. As sad as it is for something like this to happen to two people Ragnarok holds dear to our hearts, it was a necessary thing to do as they were no longer under our protection. <BobIlyani> so it's that, basically. The problem is that Bob's version of events to his membership is a lie as confirmed by Leet Guy in a [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108710"]now-archived thread[/url]: Joe Stupid "offered as a sacrifice" KaitlinK, a member of Rok whose resignation had not yet taken effect, to Mushroom Kingdom to be techraided, he made this offer due to OOC events, and began engaging in OOC attacks against Kait--a violation of Rok's charter--himself. Bob Ilyani, in his capacity as Emperor, not only did not step in to champion Rok's charter and member, he himself joined Joe in his attacks and violations, and then lied to his government and membership about the situation. Bob and Joe lost all support within the alliance because of their wretched behavior and breaches of their duty, not due to a "cult of personality" surrounding Hoo (who has not even rejoined Rok and who has communicated to me that he has no intention of doing so). Subsequent to Rok's mass rejection of his actions and lies, Bob Ilyani resigned Rok and applied to TOP (http://www.orderoftheparadox.net/index.php?/topic/348-bob-ilyani/) thus vacating the office of Emperor and any claims to such title or privileges. The charter of Ragnarok makes no provision for filling the seat of Emperor under these circumstances, thus Adel has assumed the position of Emperor by popular acclamation, which is only just. Edited January 31, 2012 by Harry Dresden Screen caps of rule violations removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Da DreadLord' timestamp='1327935848' post='2910598'] Raids have their dangers.. nukes are one of them. [/quote] So the nation is still not a member of this Rok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1327915076' post='2910499'] We really couldn't care less what you think. [/quote] [color="#0000FF"]You should. Mine is truly the only opinion that matters.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936256' post='2910604'] So the nation is still not a member of this Rok? [/quote] Does that matter? He attacked her. Why wouldn't she nuke him? Your nations would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1327936208' post='2910601'] Your previous post insinuated that the proceedings that took place were illegal, whether or not that is so I am hinting at the hypocrisy and bias predicated someone whom p much was a puppet (see everyone faux caring about him being gone + the added bonus that some are hoping to use it to exercise a long-held grudge against Ragnarok,) vs. another time in recent memory where there was decidedly less outcry. Is that not a fair assertion to make? ad-hominem, ad-hominem yellow banana. [/quote] I'm not insinuating jack !@#$, I'm SAYING that the proceedings were illegal. Coups can be justified or not justified, that is not a matter laid out in charters. But what I take issue with is people claiming this isn't a coup when by all relevant definitions it is exactly that. Adel & Co. circumvented the (crappy) provisions of their charter to replace the lawful leader. Whether you agree or disagree with Bob Ilyani's actions, that is a coup, plain and simple. And I don't know or care what other time you are referring to so vaguely. Edited January 30, 2012 by Chief Savage Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da DreadLord Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936256' post='2910604'] So the nation is still not a member of this Rok? [/quote] lol, in case you didn't know she never left. I was merely pointing to the war description used. Actually if your nation keeps fighting back, I'd demand reps from you guys. But I'm not in RoK, so not my call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1327936399' post='2910606'] Does that matter? He attacked her. Why wouldn't she nuke him? Your nations would do the same. [/quote] Yes, it does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laslo Kenez Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thank you for this multi-part tutorial on how not to run an alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Da DreadLord' timestamp='1327936510' post='2910608'] lol, in case you didn't know she never left. I was merely pointing to the war description used. Actually if your nation keeps fighting back, I'd demand reps from you guys. But I'm not in RoK, so not my call. [/quote] Actually I'll be the one demanding reps if she is no longer considered a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porksaber Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I, porksaber of slapper nation, chairman of the planet bob ethics committee, founder of the PBAACP (planet bob association for the advancement of colored people), co-founder and acting CEO of the CSB, devout manoist, Joe Stupid fanboy, and all around great guy, hereby do not recognize these bozos as the official government of the Ragnarok alliance. You know things are in a very sorry state of affairs when I miss the days where BOB ILYANI is in power, alas, I must champion this cause and call upon the rest of the planet to follow suit. This hack assemblage of a coup is a sorry state of affairs. I've heard the arguments and can honestly say that I can injest a bowl of alphabet soup, and defecate a better argument than what is being presented here. What Yukon is saying is unsubstantiated, and the logic of the new regime here is based on fabrications. My dog produces more structured content in the form of coiled piles then what is coming from the collective pie holes of the new Ragnaclowns. o/ Bob Ilyani o/ Joe Stupid long live the true and just Ragnarok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da DreadLord Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936621' post='2910611'] Actually I'll be the one demanding reps if she is no longer considered a ghost. [/quote] Well you know, go ahead and demand them..to bob and joe, since you still hold them responsible for RoK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936535' post='2910609'] Yes, it does matter. [/quote] I'd suggest you teach your membership the dangers of tech raids. Additionally, you may want to teach them the value of actually being on your AA, if they are members of your alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts