Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Da DreadLord' timestamp='1327936691' post='2910613'] Well you know, go ahead and demand them..to bob and joe, since you still hold them responsible for RoK [/quote] I'd love for you to point out where I've claimed them to hold that position? To my knowledge Joe is currently applicant of TOPs. While he was still rightful Emperor of Rok these attacks began. The logical decision would have been to peace out the attacks once he was no longer recognized as Emperor. Instead I've received a nuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheeKy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936938' post='2910616'] I'd love for you to point out where I've claimed them to hold that position? To my knowledge Joe is currently applicant of TOPs. While he was still rightful Emperor of Rok these attacks began. The logical decision would have been to peace out the attacks once he was no longer recognized as Emperor. Instead I've received a nuke. [/quote] Indeed. As Bob stated, Kaitlin was declared a ghost by him. So she was free to get hit. Righ now, she is a full member again, so she should have peaced out those wars before rejoining RoK. She didn't so a RoK member just nuked a member of MK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvengerNL Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Dont blame you Leet. The (at that moment) legitimate government declared Kait rogue, and MK decided to start a tech raid. If RoK decides to switch government its fine with me, but if the new government then decides to take in a nation at a (nuclear) war with another alliance without asking the nation to peace out, its not Kait's or MK's problem, but RoK's (or whatever's left of the alliance anyways). RoK demanding reps would be strange, because them reallowing kait back in the alliance without asking her to peace out or refrain from nuking implies they support her actions (as several CN precedents before have shown, an alliance is responsible for its members actions), and therefore MK has a valid point in wondering what the current RoK government has against MK if they tolerate such violent actions against their nations. *edit* i hate you cheeky Edited January 30, 2012 by AvengerNL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936938' post='2910616'] I'd love for you to point out where I've claimed them to hold that position? To my knowledge Joe is currently applicant of TOPs. While he was still rightful Emperor of Rok these attacks began. The logical decision would have been to peace out the attacks once he was no longer recognized as Emperor. Instead I've received a nuke. [/quote] To expand on this, we DID receive a request from Kait to peace out with her, but the request came before Bob/Joe were displaced as RoK's leaders. I decided to be nice, and gave peace at that time, but the others wished to wait until such time as someone with actual RoK authority asked them to stop their ghostbusting activities. Edited January 30, 2012 by Seerow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarmatian Empire Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327935520' post='2910597'] So if this is the legitimate government of Rok, is this where I direct my question concerning the nuke sandwich controversy of the Mushroom Kingdom received this morning? [/quote] I believe you should talk to bob and joe, I'm sure it's a ghost that is doing this nuking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny N Karl Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327936938' post='2910616'] I'd love for you to point out where I've claimed them to hold that position? To my knowledge Joe is currently applicant of TOPs. While he was still rightful Emperor of Rok these attacks began. The logical decision would have been to peace out the attacks once he was no longer recognized as Emperor. Instead I've received a nuke. [/quote] what pezstar said. AA on the war screen doesn't say MK. you put your hand on the stove, if you are going to blame someone, blame the person who told you to touch it. stop trying to bully and offer peace. show some character and class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Credit to Seerow for his sage stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Lenny N Karl' timestamp='1327937753' post='2910624'] what pezstar said. AA on the war screen doesn't say MK. [/quote] He's been on our AA for 4 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1327937917' post='2910628'] He's been on our AA for 4 days. [/quote] Perhaps you should not have accepted a nation at war. And on IRC his nick alliance tag is still [BK]. Edited January 30, 2012 by Schattenmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1327938067' post='2910629'] Perhaps you should not have accepted a nation at war. [/quote] 4 days ago he was at war with a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Tech Raid and get nuked........................complain on the owf like a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da DreadLord Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1327938067' post='2910629'] Perhaps you should not have accepted a nation at war. And on IRC his nick alliance tag is still [BK]. [/quote] Violating their own charter? [quote]Any prospective member-state should expect to undergo a brief interview and is expected to be free of active wars and off any enemy target lists upon the time of his or her application.[/quote] Edited January 30, 2012 by Da DreadLord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I'd like to take this time to point out that Ghosting another AA does not make somebody no longer a part of MK. If it did, our IA people would be overrun as we usually have 10 or more members sitting on some silly AA or another, or ghosting allies. Regardless of the AA at the time of declaration, they are MK members and have been throughout. So any talk of accepting a nation at war or on zi lists is not applicable to this situation in the least. Edited January 30, 2012 by Seerow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny N Karl Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'll also point out that she was nuked 3 times before retaliating ( 28th, 29th, and 30th). I believe the nuke you received we in response to these nukings by the other attacker (who is also now wearing the MK AA) So it looks like MK nuked first in this skirmish. There is no justification, only strong arm tactics and a breakdown of moral character. This raid is proven to be based on unreliable advice and rash judgement and should cease immediately. The raid was ill-advised. can't hold that against you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Humphrey Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 MK logic: Attack and nuke nation multiple times, refuse peace from attacked nation, demand reps when the attacked nation eventually responds. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Lenny N Karl' timestamp='1327938765' post='2910634'] I'll also point out that she was nuked 3 times before retaliating ( 28th, 29th, and 30th). I believe the nuke you received we in response to these nukings by the other attacker (who is also now wearing the MK AA) So it looks like MK nuked first in this skirmish. There is no justification, only strong arm tactics and a breakdown of moral character. This raid is proven to be based on unreliable advice and rash judgement and should cease immediately. The raid was ill-advised. can't hold that against you... [/quote] She was nuked per the request of the legitimate RoK government asking us to Ghost Bust her. I can understand the confusion, because it does look like a tech raid when someone doesn't fight back for several days, but this started as a ghost busting initiative, which means doing full damage until she leaves the AA. Given that the government has changed (or has it? I saw last night Bob and Joe saying they still were legitimate, so who knows), the new Government should have come and asked in an official capacity to stop, just as it came and asked in an official capacity to start. Unfortunately the new government did no such thing, and instead we now have Kait making counter attacks against MK nations while allegedly being a full member of RoK once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da DreadLord Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327939229' post='2910638'] She was nuked per the request of the legitimate RoK government asking us to Ghost Bust her. I can understand the confusion, because it does look like a tech raid when someone doesn't fight back for several days, but this started as a ghost busting initiative, which means doing full damage until she leaves the AA. Given that the government has changed (or has it? I saw last night Bob and Joe saying they still were legitimate, so who knows), the new Government should have come and asked in an official capacity to stop, just as it came and asked in an official capacity to start. Unfortunately the new government did no such thing, and instead we now have Kait making counter attacks against MK nations while allegedly being a full member of RoK once again. [/quote] And instead of acting like a !@#$% in this topic, MK gov should contact RoK gov about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327939229' post='2910638'] She was nuked per the request of the legitimate RoK government asking us to Ghost Bust her. I can understand the confusion, because it does look like a tech raid when someone doesn't fight back for several days, but this started as a ghost busting initiative, which means doing full damage until she leaves the AA. Given that the government has changed (or has it? I saw last night Bob and Joe saying they still were legitimate, so who knows), the new Government should have come and asked in an official capacity to stop, just as it came and asked in an official capacity to start. Unfortunately the new government did no such thing, and instead we now have Kait making counter attacks against MK nations while allegedly being a full member of RoK once again. [/quote] Except the war reason says "Raid". Not ghostbusting. Also, half the people here saw that whole situation on your forum. It's not a ghostbusting expedition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Da DreadLord' timestamp='1327939321' post='2910639'] And instead of acting like a !@#$% in this topic, MK gov should contact RoK gov about it. [/quote] I'm sure if things are not handled shortly, someone from MK will. However I think we can all agree that things are much more entertaining for everyone when played out on the OWF as opposed to a back room IRC channel or query nobody will ever see. [quote name='pezstar']Except the war reason says "Raid". Not ghostbusting. Also, half the people here saw that whole situation on your forum. It's not a ghostbusting expedition. [/quote] You may actually have a point here, except that babyjesus was frankly just being stupid when he set his declaration reason. Blacky's reason got edited out by moderators. And honestly, since when does war declaration reasons in game have any bearing on the reality of a situation? I've seen people use tech raid pm for peace as a declaration reason in real wars. As for everyone saw the whole situation on our forum... there was certainly a reaction on there, but the initial request and the follow through happened on the RoK embassy, which unless I'm mistaken you lack access to. We were sent to attack a member who was ghosting RoK's AA, any other reasons or justifications are immaterial to this discussion. Edited January 30, 2012 by Seerow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1327939442' post='2910642'] Except the war reason says "Raid". Not ghostbusting. Also, half the people here saw that whole situation on your forum. It's not a ghostbusting expedition. [/quote] Leet Guy himself has confirmed that it was not ghostbusting by quoting to the world Joe's post: [img]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/cndump/Intel/Hoo3.png[/img] The "ghostbusting" crap was made up after the fact by Bob Ilyani while he was trying to save face. Edited January 30, 2012 by Schattenmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny N Karl Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1327939229' post='2910638'] She was nuked per the request of the legitimate RoK government asking us to Ghost Bust her. I can understand the confusion, because it does look like a tech raid when someone doesn't fight back for several days, but this started as a ghost busting initiative, which means doing full damage until she leaves the AA. Given that the government has changed (or has it? I saw last night Bob and Joe saying they still were legitimate, so who knows), the new Government should have come and asked in an official capacity to stop, just as it came and asked in an official capacity to start. Unfortunately the new government did no such thing, and instead we now have Kait making counter attacks against MK nations while allegedly being a full member of RoK once again. [/quote] yes, it seems like confusion from all corners on this one. I also do appreciate your professional approach to defending the MK point of view on this. Both sides can, will and are able to spin a justification of all actions up to date. I will extend the offer to mediate between all parties if needed, as loong as all can meet with level heads. I can guarantee there won't be a perfect solution to either sides, but perhaps compromises can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 No more announcements from Ragnarok for at least 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC123 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1327936221' post='2910602'] -snip- [/quote] It's a cold day in hell when I agree with Schattenmann, but he is most right in this here wall of text and screenshots. Bob and Joe behaved very unbecoming and where definitely in violation of the charter. Being said, there WAS a coup, Bob and Joe did NOT leave the AA, nor RoK, until AFTER they were banned from the forums. Both sides are completely wrong in this whole thing. The handling of the whole situation is a great example of what not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacapo Saladin Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I only recognize the sovereignty of our one true god Apophis over Ragnarok. Adel is a false god. DOWN WITH THESE TYRANTS! Edited January 30, 2012 by Jacapo Saladin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1327939442' post='2910642'] Except the war reason says "Raid". Not ghostbusting. Also, half the people here saw that whole situation on your forum. It's not a ghostbusting expedition. [/quote] An excellent point! This falls in line with the general assumption that each war declaration is evidence to its rationale. Edited January 30, 2012 by tamerlane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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