Winter Came Prematurely

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322496086' post='2854866']
follow the line here

Were you directly attacked or did you go in defense of an ally of yours: Answer you went in.

There is a reason for non-chaining clauses. It means we dont have to defend someone YOURE allied to. You were told from the get go we would not under any circumstances defend NPO at that time. Heres a box of kleenex go back to your corner and continue to try and make us out to be a bad guy.
[/quote]

I guess we just differ on how we value and treat our allies.

[Demag]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322467466' post='2854665']
Good point. Glad to see you're still around.
[/quote]

I appear from time to time.

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322491976' post='2854830']
Our MDP partner was not attacked. NPO was attacked and we would in no way shape or form defend them at the time. Our direct treaty partners were well aware of this stance and it was discussed at great length with them. But if you can come up with a treaty between NPO and Valhalla then I will concede your point. Ill save you the time YOU CANT. Difference RIA signed a MDP with Polar with full knowledge of the baggage that comes with it. So please dig around and find an example that actually fits the scenerio.
[/quote]

I was referencing this current war with IRON being attacked then some past event and it wasn't a dig at Valhalla, to be honest I could of listed DAWN or Argent, but to point out these ridiculous call outs on RIA when there are more than one alliances mutual defense clause being activated that haven't entered yet.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1322496189' post='2854868']
I guess we just differ on how we value and treat our allies.
[/quote]
LOL yeah the jilted GF approach from you is just not working SCY.

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1322462782' post='2854575']
Ooooh, an SF quip. I'm quaking in my jackboots. [/quote]

I can only imagine what some in SF think of you as you actively stir the pot against former allies.

And don't lie, those are flip flops you're wearing.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322496650' post='2854876']
LOL yeah the jilted GF approach from you is just not working SCY.
[/quote]

Hey I'd much rather be talking about how great allies you all were, but Valhalla let us down.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Demag' timestamp='1322496594' post='2854875']
I appear from time to time.



I was referencing this current war with IRON being attacked then some past event and it wasn't a dig at Valhalla, to be honest I could of listed DAWN or Argent, but to point out these ridiculous call outs on RIA when there are more than one alliances mutual defense clause being activated that haven't entered yet.
[/quote]
Once again ill explain this. IF we defend IRON which we have said we would in our DOS it would be entering on the OA clause of our treaty as IRON is the agressor. We support this action against Polar. Its not the same situation. Now im retired and my words dont hold !@#$ as per Val policy but that is my read on the situation. It is specifically why we put ass hat non chain clauses in our treaties. I can understand why RIA is getting called out. They have the option of hitting TOP. Personally I think its a little early for the call outs but they did sign a MDP treaty with Polar and are obligated to defend. Polar is sending out what equates to mosquitos on IRON atm. IRON is more than capable of handling these micros with out anyone elses help. I think RIA will come in they dont let allies burn alone its just not in their DNA as they are DIRECTLY tied to Polar.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Buds The Man

[Joe Kremlin]

Please RIA, don't betray Polar!

[Demag]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322497187' post='2854882']
Once again ill explain this. IF we defend IRON which we have said we would in our DOS it would be entering on the OA clause of our treaty as IRON is the agressor. We support this action against Polar. Its not the same situation. Now im retired and my words dont hold !@#$ as per Val policy but that is my read on the situation. It is specifically why we put ass hat non chain clauses in our treaties. I can understand why RIA is getting called out. They have the option of hitting TOP. Personally I think its a little early for the call outs but they did sign a MDP treaty with Polar and are obligated to defend. Polar is sending out what equates to mosquitos on IRON atm. IRON is more than capable of handling these micros with out anyone elses help. I think RIA will come in they dont let allies burn alone its just not in their DNA as they are DIRECTLY tied to Polar.
[/quote]

I'm not questioning Valhalla's willingness to defend their allies, I was merely putting the shoe on the other foot for Bob Ilyani's benefit then anything else.
Though I'm not sure why Valhalla would be going via their OA clause when they could still activate there defense clause but that's just semantics.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Joe Kremlin' timestamp='1322497656' post='2854886']
Please RIA, don't betray Polar!
[/quote]

I see right through your actions TOP, this was clearly a ploy just to get at RIA [img]http://mushroom-kingdom.info/boards/Smileys/kickass/argh.gif[/img]

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Demag' timestamp='1322498021' post='2854890']
I'm not questioning Valhalla's willingness to defend their allies, I was merely putting the shoe on the other foot for Bob Ilyani's benefit then anything else.
Though I'm not sure why Valhalla would be going via their OA clause when they could still activate there defense clause but that's just semantics.
[/quote]
Depends on which clause gets triggered. If IRON was walking about minding its own business and someone jumped them, then Val's MD clause is activated and they come in and break some !@#$. If IRON gets all medieval on someone's ass and Val decides to swat down the counters, that is the oA clause being activated.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322491976' post='2854830']
Our MDP partner was not attacked.
[/quote]

Last war Valhalla had seven MDP+ allies under attack and done nothing. I'll list them for you, since I'm a nice guy.

Olympus
MCXA
BTA
Exodus
Molon Labe
Dark Templar
Nordreich

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1322498850' post='2854905']
Depends on which clause gets triggered. If IRON was walking about minding its own business and someone jumped them, then Val's MD clause is activated and they come in and break some !@#$. If IRON gets all medieval on someone's ass and Val decides to swat down the counters, that is the oA clause being activated.
[/quote]
BINGO Ladies and gentleman this man gets it.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322499969' post='2854910']
Last war Valhalla had seven MDP+ allies under attack and done nothing. I'll list them for you, since I'm a nice guy.

Olympus
MCXA
BTA
Exodus
Molon Labe
Dark Templar
Nordreich
[/quote]
LOL and how many of those are still allies Omni. NONE of the above allies were declared upon initially ALL of them went in to the war via another treaty. So your saying because alliance X likes Y and signs a treaty with them Z is now obligated to defend Y because X has? So now all MDOAP treaties are just considered MDAP? There is a reason for the O and non-chain clauses. We did pleanty Omni we approached every ally prior to the conflict escaliting and discuseed it with them.

[aboooe]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322500901' post='2854928']


LOL and how many of those are still allies Omni. NONE of the above allies were declared upon initially ALL of them went in to the war via another treaty. So your saying because alliance X likes Y and signs a treaty with them Z is now obligated to defend Y because X has? So now all MDOAP treaties are just considered MDAP? There is a reason for the O and non-chain clauses. We did pleanty Omni we approached every ally prior to the conflict escaliting and discuseed it with them.
[/quote]
More than half are still allies Bud.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322500901' post='2854928']
BINGO Ladies and gentleman this man gets it.


LOL and how many of those are still allies Omni. NONE of the above allies were declared upon initially ALL of them went in to the war via another treaty. So your saying because alliance X likes Y and signs a treaty with them Z is now obligated to defend Y because X has? So now all MDOAP treaties are just considered MDAP? There is a reason for the O and non-chain clauses. We did pleanty Omni we approached every ally prior to the conflict escaliting and discuseed it with them.
[/quote]
I've always wondered why people think oA = D. That and non-chaining are there for a reason. I never felt DR was trying to get out of a war. Valhalla, was so far treaty-chain-wise from the central conflict (NpO-VE) that you can't say they were leaving allies high and dry. At some point the treaty chain has to stop otherwise we'd be declaring on ourselves.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322500901' post='2854928']
BINGO Ladies and gentleman this man gets it.


LOL and how many of those are still allies Omni. NONE of the above allies were declared upon initially ALL of them went in to the war via another treaty. So your saying because alliance X likes Y and signs a treaty with them Z is now obligated to defend Y because X has? So now all MDOAP treaties are just considered MDAP? There is a reason for the O and non-chain clauses. We did pleanty Omni we approached every ally prior to the conflict escaliting and discuseed it with them.
[/quote]

Well Exodus disbanded, and I have no clue about BTA. I guess you canceled on MCXA.

I'm sure RIA will come eventually, but we've all left allies out to dry before (even the great MK!) so let's not start calling people out just yet.

[quote]
I've always wondered why people think oA = D. That and non-chaining are there for a reason. I never felt DR was trying to get out of a war. Valhalla, was so far treaty-chain-wise from the central conflict (NpO-VE) that you can't say they were leaving allies high and dry. At some point the treaty chain has to stop otherwise we'd be declaring on ourselves. [/quote]

I've always wondered why people call others out for not honoring treaties. Especially, when they've done the exact same thing. Just something to think about.

RIA were complete idiots to sign this treaty, but they'll help Polar eventually. I have faith in them.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Omniscient1

[queenhailee]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322499969' post='2854910']
Last war Valhalla had seven MDP+ allies under attack and done nothing. I'll list them for you, since I'm a nice guy.

Olympus
MCXA
BTA
Exodus
Molon Labe
Dark Templar
Nordreich
[/quote]

Olympus was not "under attack" in the NPO/DH war. Olympus [b]was[/b] at war, but we were never declared on. Most of Valhalla's treaties are non-chaining. Ours isn't. But there was never any reason for us to activate that treaty (chaining or not) as we were not countered. I imagine not countering us was part of the opposition's strategy for that reason.


[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322502453' post='2854946']
I'm sure RIA will come eventually, but we've all left allies out to dry before (even the great MK!) so let's not start calling people out just yet.
[/quote]

No, no. Not all of us have.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1322502231' post='2854943']
I've always wondered why people think oA = D. That and non-chaining are there for a reason. I never felt DR was trying to get out of a war. Valhalla, was so far treaty-chain-wise from the central conflict (NpO-VE) that you can't say they were leaving allies high and dry. At some point the treaty chain has to stop otherwise we'd be declaring on ourselves.
[/quote]

NG CIVIL WAR!!

Those clever politicians .

[Indian Bob]

Man, we get left out of all the nonsensical arguments about situations that are not even remotely similar the topic in the OP...and by that I mean, SNAFU was/is also Val's treaty partner through Poseidon. We were fully aware of their position and it was perfectly consistent with both the text and spirit of the treaty.

How about we get back to RIA bashing or whatever this thread has become?

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='queenhailee' timestamp='1322503809' post='2854959']
No, no. Not all of us have.
[/quote]

Most of us anyway. I'm sure there was a time that you have had to, but if I do infact find one I'll just show you on irc. This argument has gotten pretty retarded.

[RePePe]

To compare RIA in this situation to Valhalla last war is completely idiotic and quite embarassing. I need not explain why the two situations are completely different.

The fact of the matter is that NpO was aggressively attacked by the forces of TOP/IRON. RIA, you signed a treaty giving your word to defend your 'friend,' Polaris. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='RePePe' timestamp='1322506091' post='2854980']
To compare RIA in this situation to Valhalla last war is completely idiotic and quite embarassing. I need not explain why the two situations are completely different.

The fact of the matter is that NpO was aggressively attacked by the forces of TOP/IRON. RIA, you signed a treaty giving your word to defend your 'friend,' Polaris. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
[/quote]

It's been 2 days.

[RePePe]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322506212' post='2854982']
It's been 2 days.
[/quote]

And Polaris is dropping 200k NS per day while TOP/IRON combined have lost an average of only 50-70k NS per day.

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322506212' post='2854982']
It's been 2 days.
[/quote]
CLEARLY THEY'RE NEVER COMING IN EVER!!one1!

Seriously guys, have some patience. RIA is so committed to treaties, it borders on insanity. They'll defend Polar.

[nitropenta]

I'm looking forward to this one.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1322500901' post='2854928']
BINGO Ladies and gentleman this man gets it.


LOL and how many of those are still allies Omni. NONE of the above allies were declared upon initially ALL of them went in to the war via another treaty. So your saying because alliance X likes Y and signs a treaty with them Z is now obligated to defend Y because X has? So now all MDOAP treaties are just considered MDAP? There is a reason for the O and non-chain clauses. We did pleanty Omni we approached every ally prior to the conflict escaliting and discuseed it with them.
[/quote]

While i see your point on oA treaties, Molon Labe was declared on by Umbrella, Dark Templar by someone else in SF (I wanna say R&R) Olympus was also engaged aggressively.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Emperor Whimsical