Individual Surrender Terms

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1319601643' post='2832414']
And pray tell, how does this conversation involve us?
[/quote]

Considering your habit for not honoring treaties, we can imagine that the culture of deserting resonates quite strongly in Invicta.

[Ivan V]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1319585337' post='2832308']
Don't wanna pay up, don't leave ur alliance midwar.
[/quote]

Truer words have never been spoken.


Also, the faux-rage against NG in this thread is laughable.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Ivan V

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1319584169' post='2832298']
Again, none of which has anything to do with SOS Brigade's members, potential deserters/defectors, or the point of individual surrender terms (to encourage desertion) and the self-defeating nature of NG's twist. If you were punishing your own deserters, then what you said would apply, but we're not talking about NG family betrayal.
[/quote]

We are doing SOS a favor, that makes us a bad man? Oh cry me a river Scattenman. You and RIA are just being jelly because it is coming from us. If it was an alliance you actually liked, we wouldn't hear a thing about it.

Edited October 26, 2011 by kriekfreak

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1319591191' post='2832349']
I just can't be outraged by these terms. Deserters deserve no respect and no fair treatment.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I cannot believe what I am seeing. Some of the bravest and noblest people I know are deserters. I for one refuse to sit back and allow this to be done. NG, until you stop being so petty and extortiony I am going to loudly complain about everything your alliance does.[/color]

[erikz]

[quote name='dejarue' timestamp='1319405308' post='2831089']
I hope you guys get wiped out off the world.
[/quote]
Come at us bro.

[quote name='Apophis775' timestamp='1319408065' post='2831129']
So... this organized tech-raid has stepped up to extortion?

This surprises me, as I haven't seen extortion like this since I join CN and got the "Pay me 1 mil or I'll own you" messages from the noob-hunters.

Pitiful.
[/quote]
How can you call this a tech raid? I havent seen so many turtles since I fought the GGA 2 years ago.

Edited October 26, 2011 by erikz

[Ellis]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319603900' post='2832422']
Considering your habit for not honoring treaties, we can imagine that the culture of deserting resonates quite strongly in Invicta.
[/quote]

Do I need to go copy-paste my explanation from the declaration thread?

Edit: Here's guessing I will

[quote]Legion has specifically asked us to stay out, so we should probably just ignore what they want and what's best for them, just so we can make a pretty DoW thread and $%#& up their entire war plan

UPN also didn't want any of their allies going in, not even their MD-level allies, so why would we?

SOS... Well, not all of us want to get rolled over the actions of one guy, especially not if that guy's Arrnea. And that's why we have an Optional treaty. [/quote]

Edited October 26, 2011 by Ellis

[Amossio]

[quote name='dejarue' timestamp='1319405308' post='2831089']
I hope you guys get wiped out off the world.
[/quote]

csn are the ones that really deserve disbandment, any alliance that put's liz in charge deserves such a fate, same goes for !@#$%brigade.

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1319625143' post='2832473']
Do I need to go copy-paste my explanation from the declaration thread?

Edit: Here's guessing I will
[/quote]
invicta has an excuse for everything these days, got an excuse for how useless invicta and sos are as well??

camon NG do it like a BoSS!!!!!these terms are way too lenient

o/ NG

Edited October 26, 2011 by Amossio

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='porksaber' timestamp='1319585152' post='2832306']
Treating the enemy as you would expect your own members to be treated is the embodiment of living your own politics, and this is something that is sorely lacking these days.[/quote]

It's the embodiment of living YOUR policies, yes. And that's the point - it is YOUR policy and NOT SOS Brigade's (or whoever you happen to have declared war on at the time.)

What I would expect of our own members is that we would deal with our own deserters as we chose. If an enemy decides to impose their own reparations on individual nations in order for them to leave the war, so be it. We have no control over that. However, to suggest that you're somehow "helping" your enemy IS a clear insult to your enemy - period.

Either that, or Non Grata has suddenly decided to go all moralistic on everyone, and I certainly would not accuse Non Grata of such a thing.

Oh, and if you REALLY want to "help" SOS Brigade, then give them white peace and be done with this war. No? I rest my case.

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1319557887' post='2832102']
Multiple people in Non Grata have already said we would support being offered these same individual surrender terms in any war. If someone in my alliance accepts an offer like this, I know they are paying more to get out of the war instead of just getting off scott free like all previous wars have been.

We wrote them because we hate deserters. We first introduced this policy against UPN, although I think in this case we'd rather keep pounding down on SOS' nations.
[/quote]

Again, I don't have a problem with the policy. It's a smart policy. I have a problem with the excuse that it is somehow meant to be beneficial to SOS Brigade, oh but Non Grata is being so helpful, blah blah blah. It's a smart tactic on the part of a powerful alliance. Nothing more. The fact that you'd be okay with an enemy asking for the same is also a smart alliance policy. It discourages your own people from deserting.

Why not just own that the policy is a smart one, Non Grata? You take credit where it's do in other cases. Why even bother trying to make this look like a favor to your enemy in any way? That's what confuses me here.

Edited October 26, 2011 by White Chocolate

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319603900' post='2832422']
Considering your habit for not honoring treaties, we can imagine that the culture of deserting resonates quite strongly in Invicta.
[/quote]
I want a 500-word essay on how an alliance can not honor an optional treaty on my desk by Sunday, 12:01 AM.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319618543' post='2832460']
We are doing SOS a favor, that makes us a bad man? Oh cry me a river Scattenman. You and RIA are just being jelly because it is coming from us. If it was an alliance you actually liked, we wouldn't hear a thing about it.
[/quote]
Hahahaha. Ha. Ha. That's rich. Find an alliance that I "like" that I [i]haven't[/i] taken to task, go on, I dare you. Start with Nordreich.

[porksaber]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1319634550' post='2832487']
However, to suggest that you're somehow "helping" your enemy IS a clear insult to your enemy - period.

Either that, or Non Grata has suddenly decided to go all moralistic on everyone, and I certainly would not accuse Non Grata of such a thing.
[/quote]

Clearly you're not reading the relevant material that is required to have any meaningful contributions to this discussion. This mission is the epitome of moralistic activity; we stated clearly that this is a community service that we're undertaking.

To that end, I have just a few points of interest that I'd like to take this opportunity to share.

1) To accuse Non Grata of "insulting the enemy" is not only ridiculous, it's outrageous. We love our enemy unconditionally and want to liberate them from their current futile existence and lead them to achieve greatness.

2) If they didn't want, and in so many words, blatantly ask for Non Grata's help in this department, maybe they shouldn't have existed in the first place.

3) Non Grata is built on strong pillars that are in turn built on the broad shoulders of moral giants.

4) Average intelligence; possible homeschooling.

5) Three servings of fruits and vegetables a day is a good start, but is by no means sufficient for a daily allowance or a cornerstone for a daily diet. Please study the benefits of okra consumption.

Thanks in advance for your continued professionalism.

[Timeline]

I think this is a huge misunderstanding, SOS Brigade should be thanking NG for doing this as it highlights those who are not worthy to be a member of SOS Brigade, and as for the terms well if you leave SOS Brigade to avoid the cost of war you have to pay the price of peace that simple.

/Hail NG for looking out for SOS Brigade

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='porksaber' timestamp='1319638945' post='2832494']This mission is the epitome of moralistic activity; we stated clearly that this is a community service that we're undertaking.[/quote]

Alright, porksaber, you win. I laughed so hard I nearly fell off my chair.

Hail Non Grata! The new epitome of what it means to be moral on Planet Bob.

Edited October 26, 2011 by White Chocolate

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1319634550' post='2832487']
blub
[/quote]

It's not so much that we are looking out for SOS's well being. It's more the fact that we really, really hate deserters. Just the fact that others like Schattenman are now blowing this way out of proportion and spinning this to make us out as the worse alliance in cybernations is what I find hilarious and sad at the same time.

[Grendel]

To be honest it really does not matter what anyone thinks about this situation other then the parties involved. Whether I agree with NG's terms and stance with SOS is unimportant they want to handle the situation this way and really that is all it is. Unless you are willing to force your will upon these parties arguing about it is really senseless and futile. NG has been very forthright with what they are doing and the terms they feel acceptable for surrender. Its their war their terms and I am happy to accept that on face value.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Grendel

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319643588' post='2832507']
It's not so much that we are looking out for SOS's well being. It's more the fact that we really, really hate deserters. Just the fact that others like Schattenman are now blowing this way out of proportion and spinning this to make us out as the worse alliance in cybernations is what I find hilarious and sad at the same time.
[/quote]
Waaaaah, Schattenmann bodyslammed our hurrdurr on page 8 of a thread, waaaaaahhhhhh.

[quote name='Grendel' timestamp='1319644515' post='2832512']
To be honest it really does not matter what anyone thinks about this situation other then the parties involved. Whether I agree with NG's terms and stance with SOS is unimportant they want to handle the situation this way and really that is all it is. Unless you are willing to force your will upon these parties arguing about it is really senseless and futile. NG has been very forthright with what they are doing and the terms they feel acceptable for surrender. Its their war their terms and I am happy to accept that on face value.
[/quote]
You can ignore that this has happened twice and multiple alliances have lined up to employ it in the future all you want, but your refusal to acknowledge its implications doesn't equate to an alteration of reality.

[Amossio]

[quote name='porksaber' timestamp='1319638945' post='2832494']
Clearly you're not reading the relevant material that is required to have any meaningful contributions to this discussion. This mission is the epitome of moralistic activity; we stated clearly that this is a community service that we're undertaking.

To that end, I have just a few points of interest that I'd like to take this opportunity to share.

1) To accuse Non Grata of "insulting the enemy" is not only ridiculous, it's outrageous. We love our enemy unconditionally and want to liberate them from their current futile existence and lead them to achieve greatness.

2) If they didn't want, and in so many words, blatantly ask for Non Grata's help in this department, maybe they shouldn't have existed in the first place.

3) Non Grata is built on strong pillars that are in turn built on the broad shoulders of moral giants.

4) Average intelligence; possible homeschooling.

5) Three servings of fruits and vegetables a day is a good start, but is by no means sufficient for a daily allowance or a cornerstone for a daily diet. Please study the benefits of okra consumption.

Thanks in advance for your continued professionalism.
[/quote]

pork I had forgotten that I love you I did laugh for a while

o/ng

Edited October 26, 2011 by Amossio

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Grendel' timestamp='1319644515' post='2832512']
To be honest it really does not matter what anyone thinks about this situation other then the parties involved. Whether I agree with NG's terms and stance with SOS is unimportant they want to handle the situation this way and really that is all it is. Unless you are willing to force your will upon these parties arguing about it is really senseless and futile. NG has been very forthright with what they are doing and the reparations they feel acceptable for surrender. Its their war their reparations and I am happy to accept that on face value.
[/quote]

Fixed that for you, didn't want you to mix up the terms of a word there.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='porksaber' timestamp='1319638945' post='2832494']
Clearly you're not reading the relevant material that is required to have any meaningful contributions to this discussion. This mission is the epitome of moralistic activity; we stated clearly that this is a community service that we're undertaking.

To that end, I have just a few points of interest that I'd like to take this opportunity to share.

1) To accuse Non Grata of "insulting the enemy" is not only ridiculous, it's outrageous. We love our enemy unconditionally and want to liberate them from their current futile existence and lead them to achieve greatness.

2) If they didn't want, and in so many words, blatantly ask for Non Grata's help in this department, maybe they shouldn't have existed in the first place.

3) Non Grata is built on strong pillars that are in turn built on the broad shoulders of moral giants.

4) Average intelligence; possible homeschooling.

5) Three servings of fruits and vegetables a day is a good start, but is by no means sufficient for a daily allowance or a cornerstone for a daily diet. Please study the benefits of okra consumption.

Thanks in advance for your continued professionalism.
[/quote]

I haven't seen something so pretty in a long time. You've been missed Uncle Pork.

[Grendel]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1319645987' post='2832522']You can ignore that this has happened twice and multiple alliances have lined up to employ it in the future all you want, but your refusal to acknowledge its implications doesn't equate to an alteration of reality.
[/quote]

Not sure where you are getting the "ignoring" part from or where I refuse to acknowledge any perceived implications. Simply, I stated it is what it is and will remain so until someone takes it upon themselves to force the parties to change. In things like this, "might makes right", that is both good or bad of this situation. No matter how much you want to moan and groan about something unless you and/or others enforce your will to change the situation it is what it is.

[quote]We have to adapt and overcome, that's all we can do. -Frank Knight[/quote]

Edited October 26, 2011 by Grendel

[Grendel]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1319648331' post='2832533']
Fixed that for you, didn't want you to mix up the terms of a word there.
[/quote]

Thanks, not sure what I would do without you

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]You know, in all seriousness, I am still trying to figure out what is ruffling everyone's feathers. NG is not requiring people below 15k NS to pay anything. So we can safely say that unsuspecting newbies, who didn't know better than to join such an incompetently led alliance as SOS Brigade, are not going to be victimized by these "extortionist" Non Gratanianisherese (I think that's what they're called).

As for those above 15k NS, or 5k tech, well, they've been around for awhile. There is no way any of you can argue otherwise. By now they should know what their alliance is all about and how the world feels about that alliance. If they have disagreements or do not like that situation, well, no one has forced them to stay. They made that choice themselves. If they've also been around that long it also means they've reaped the benefits of an alliance (namely protection) for quite awhile.

Now if they surrender as soon as their alliance, however awful it might be, gets in a hot situation, it does speak of them somewhat. Some people just want to build peacefully, in which case they should just join GPA. Others are just cowards. Still, if NG does not want to let them off easily (and why they are obligated according to some of you to I have no idea) they do not have to.

Lastly, it is only 3 mil/50 or 200 tech. This isn't a lot. It can be replaced in one aid cycle or less.[/color]

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319652235' post='2832541']
[color="#0000FF"]You know, in all seriousness, I am still trying to figure out what is ruffling everyone's feathers. NG is not requiring people below 15k NS to pay anything. So we can safely say that unsuspecting newbies, who didn't know better than to join such an incompetently led alliance as SOS Brigade, are not going to be victimized by these "extortionist" Non Gratanianisherese (I think that's what they're called).

As for those above 15k NS, or 5k tech, well, they've been around for awhile. There is no way any of you can argue otherwise. By now they should know what their alliance is all about and how the world feels about that alliance. If they have disagreements or do not like that situation, well, no one has forced them to stay. They made that choice themselves. If they've also been around that long it also means they've reaped the benefits of an alliance (namely protection) for quite awhile.

Now if they surrender as soon as their alliance, however awful it might be, gets in a hot situation, it does speak of them somewhat. Some people just want to build peacefully, in which case they should just join GPA. Others are just cowards. Still, if NG does not want to let them off easily (and why they are obligated according to some of you to I have no idea) they do not have to.

Lastly, it is only 3 mil/50 or 200 tech. This isn't a lot. It can be replaced in one aid cycle or less.[/color]
[/quote]

Please take your sensibility elsewhere.

Quit raining on this parade.

[DemonSpawn]

So Non Grata, who's the next alliance in your crosshairs?

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1319603900' post='2832422']
Considering your habit for not honoring treaties, we can imagine that the culture of deserting resonates quite strongly in Invicta.
[/quote]

Ignore the numerous times they have defended NPO against the odds why don't you? Invicta are kind people, I don't understand why everyone is such a dick towards them.

[ShouAS]

People are being harsh to Invicta because they don't want them to be able to regrow after being destroyed in their last war.