A Joint TLR-GATO Announcement

[m3g4tr0n]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1317877106' post='2817968']
There is a whole lotta "U MAD" in this thread.
[/quote]

Not really. Everyone knows GATO's been leading from the back since day one.

[Frederico Rodriguez]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1317877144' post='2817973']
I see you failed to answer my question. Now that GATO finally joined a bloc that doesn't suck--any bloc that GATO didn't create in the 5 past years--do they have the guts to really support IAA?
[/quote]

Hmm..you should consider joining GATO, i reckon you'd have much to offer.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1317995041' post='2819653']
They might blow you up either way, but it doesn't mean you spied.
The CB still isn't spying, it's dissemenation of information. Spin it however you want, but continuing to say Tetris spied is both inaccurate and an attempt to use that little buzzword to make what they did worse than what actually occured.

You're better than that Schatt. Don't obscure the truth
[/quote]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1317877035' post='2817963']
[quote name='janax' timestamp='1317876879' post='2817949']
Dissemenating information was the CB. Not spying.
[/quote]
Yes, "spying" is a broad term and it always has been. Passing on spied screenshots is a "spying" CB. The fact of the matter is that the other three idiots which replied to the same post would all declare war on CoJ in 5 minutes if I got screenshots from their forums and posted them. And that is what matters.
[/quote]
Newsletters "disseminate information" not call-out threads. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=92632"]This[/url] is dissemination of information. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98766&view=findpost&p=2636663"]This[/url] is dissemination of information. Since you opened that door, I will say that it is because I disseminate information that I am "better." Even when I was using spied intel, it was informational and to serve a purpose and ideology, and we were already at war with NPO. What Hereno did is "spying" in the Bob-language sense of the word that has always applied. The application of the term "dissemination of information" is a misnomer that you are applying to absolve Tetris of guilt as if they are some bringers of truth. That is not the case. Hereno got his grimy little fingers on some screenshots of no importance to the world and posted them with no aim or goal other than to kick sand in Legion's face, then, his alliance backed him up.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Schattenmann

[EpsilonPhoenix]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1317877852' post='2818012']
FYI: Legion is still !@#$.
[/quote]
I thought the same thing until I saw this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvhBDJVbPEMSdDJIY1E0U1lwZ2s5NVlXU1pjQ0JBc0E&hl=en_US#gid=0

That's a pretty big improvement since the last war. The other side also has more nations in peace mode than Legion do.

Edited October 7, 2011 by EpsilonPhoenix

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1317955581' post='2819259']
The situations are not the same. GOONS aggressively attacked an alliance--it doesn't matter which--without any reason at all, the response to your attack was defensive and foreseeable.
[/quote]
Hey we had our reasons. We like war, and money. Attacking NPO gave us plenty of both. NPO came out better for it anyway, so a good time was had by all.

Also the response was totally disproportionate.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1318002064' post='2819727']
Hey we had our reasons. We like war, and money. Attacking NPO gave us plenty of both. NPO came out better for it anyway, so a good time was had by all.[/quote]
Which is why it was dumb for your man to whine about it.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1318002064' post='2819727']
Also the response was totally disproportionate.
[/quote]
[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317882011' post='2818156']
Why do people continue to act like size of the combatants is irrelevant? Yes its 5v1. The NS of those fighting Legion, didnt pass Legions NS until the last DoW by BTA. Competence aside, more nations, more tech, more NS, will almost always win. How do you overcome that? You close the gap. FFS stop looking at it as 5 alliances vs 1, because its based on the idiotic premise that 1 alliance = 1 alliance.
[/quote]
The merry band of micros that countered GOONS was hardly disproportionate.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Schattenmann

[benjaminperdomo]

[quote name='Laserwolf' timestamp='1317933036' post='2818834']
In this thread current and former GATO and IAA members going at each other like we never met. I am disappoint.

But this is the OWF where anything is possible and happens.

Good luck out there IAA, we're behind you.
[/quote]

Sadly, I'm not surprised either

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1318002341' post='2819732']
The merry band of micros that countered GOONS was hardly disproportionate.
[/quote]
Bad as legion's combat performance was in that war I could hardly call them a micro. Nor could I call TPF, Invicta, nor NSO micros either. I don't know why you're arguing that it wasn't disproportionate, it was obviously disproportionate as part of your "strategy". This is a known, uncontested fact. But whatever, that's neither here nor there. IAA's entry balanced this war reasonably well.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1317876497' post='2817901']
We will aid their nations as they fight and as they win. We encourage Legion's allies to do the same.
[/quote]
What about those who aren't allied to Legion, but sympathize with Legion's situation and feel like sending them some aid, would you encourage them to do the same as well?

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1317995155' post='2819655']
Furthermore, say instead of presenting them in a respectful or satirical style as is your normal modus operandi, you instead accompany them with hamfisted "come at me bro" logic in a sheer attempt to provoke them.
[/quote]

So that's the world we now live in? [i]"He dared me to hit him, so I did... I'm the real victim."[/i] That's barely a notch above [i]"She deserved it for wearing that dress."[/i]

In your rush to defend naked aggression you've turned the world on it's head. When the strong attack the weak, they're now just defending themselves.

-Craig

Edited October 8, 2011 by Comrade Craig

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318037720' post='2820331']
What about those who aren't allied to Legion, but sympathize with Legion's situation and feel like sending them some aid, would you encourage them to do the same as well?
[/quote]

I don't care.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1317994716' post='2819651']
Riddle me this: A malcontent in Olympus sends me screenshots of Olympus' forums, or he sends them to my buddy ChairmanHal and Hal sends them to me, then I post them on the OWF. Are you telling me that Olympus cares whether I am [i]the [/i]spy or not?
[/quote]
If it were my say? I'd want to know where you got them. You dont tell me i kill you. If you tell me i overlook you cus i want the actual guilty party... but alas it aint my say

[Haflinger]

[quote name='asawyer' timestamp='1317924688' post='2818701']
That being said, what the hell is the point of TLR's financial support? IAA has a roughly a 50:50 breakdown of upper and lower tier nation, so with DRAs factored in they should have no trouble whatsoever keeping their low tier stocked.
[/quote]
As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, IAA appears to have major activity issues.

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1317925940' post='2818712']
Sending aid bombs to alliances at war is usually considered an act of war.
[/quote]
It wasn't when we aided Crimson Guard.

[quote name='Jgoods45' timestamp='1317956351' post='2819273']
Even when we utilize our non-chaining clause, we support them in the back channels.
[/quote]
It's tough to turn moral support into bombs and bullets. I know which one I'd rather have in a war.

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1317995041' post='2819653']
The CB still isn't spying, it's dissemenation of information.
[/quote]
Espionage is the unauthorized dissemination of information.

[hewhoisgod]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318037720' post='2820331']
What about those who aren't allied to Legion, but sympathize with Legion's situation and feel like sending them some aid, would you encourage them to do the same as well?
[/quote]

"Legion are currently at war with the NSO and various other alliances. I would ask that you cancel your aid offer to their member. Thanks!
Varianz, Sith Lord"

Does that answer your question?

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1318045104' post='2820422']
So that's the world we now live in? [i]"He dared me to hit him, so I did... I'm the real victim."[/i] That's barely a notch above [i]"She deserved it for wearing that dress."[/i]

In your rush to defend naked aggression you've turned the world on it's head. When the strong attack the weak, they're now just defending themselves.

-Craig
[/quote]

To turn it into an example that would fit your line of thinking more, it would be more like someone going through your private journal/baby photos/what have you, posting them online, then telling you that you won't do anything about it because you're a !@#$% and they're part of the mob so their friends will beat you up.

That's still justification for punching someone in the face.

But that's just a practical standpoint, from a legal standpoint, spying (or revelation of spied material) is and has been a valid CB for defensive war for a long time. Spying is an offensive attack against the security and sovereignty of an alliance, so Legion most definitely has the right to declare defensive war.

Not only that, but "strong attacking the weak" is highly misrepresentitive of the situation. Sure, they're numerically smaller, but they had the foreknowledge that the treaty web would break in their favor 100% of the time, which means Legion is always on the backfoot, no matter what happens.

Edited October 9, 2011 by deth2munkies

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318037720' post='2820331']
What about those who aren't allied to Legion, but sympathize with Legion's situation and feel like sending them some aid, would you encourage them to do the same as well?
[/quote]

Does Legion need aid? Tetris is wrecked, NsO is tiny, NSO is in it but hurting, BTA is not even sure they are at war and IAA is pretty much dead on arrival. TLR and GATO aiding them is like throwing money away and just compounds how embarrassing this entire fiasco is for IAA and BTA. In IAAs case I do not think I have seen an alliance so well liked and respected completely destroy its reputation so quickly. If Legion can keep from doing something completely stupid they should be ok. I am pretty sure no one else wants to band wagon in on them after seeing how things have gone for IAA and BTA.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1318186628' post='2821613']
Does Legion need aid? Tetris is wrecked, NsO is tiny, NSO is in it but hurting, BTA is not even sure they are at war and IAA is pretty much dead on arrival. TLR and GATO aiding them is like throwing money away and just compounds how embarrassing this entire fiasco is for IAA and BTA.
[/quote]

Not really, we're sending money to fighting nations because we like them. We would do it for 5 fighting members or 50 fighting members, and it'll help out some of them plenty. I think the idea that we're throwing money away is a bit dramatic.

[LegendoftheSkies]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Legion is winning though. Their NS has been dipping fairly steeply.

Still, it seems to actually be about an even fight. If it wasn't clear before that Legion's opponents aren't exactly military masterminds themselves, it definitely is now. This is truly a battle of the WAE's.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1318187876' post='2821625']
I wouldn't go so far as to say Legion is winning though. Their NS has been dipping fairly steeply.

[/quote]

Declarations of victory are very premature considering that one side has a particular number of presumably useful nations in peace mode.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1318187416' post='2821618']
Not really, we're sending money to fighting nations because we like them. We would do it for 5 fighting members or 50 fighting members, and it'll help out some of them plenty. I think the idea that we're throwing money away is a bit dramatic.
[/quote]

Are you kidding? No doubt your offer of aid encouraged IAA and BTA to fumble into to this thing. In the end IAA will be lucky if they do not disband before the war is over and both IAA and BTA have been exposed as complete shells of what once were alliances. No doubt your aid will be enjoyed by Legion as they take it from the hapless people you are funding and use it against NSO who is the only alliance giving them a fight. So in the end your funding the embarrassment of your allies, the death of IAA and Legions war against NSO. I guess your right your getting one hell of a bang for your buck.

[hewhoisgod]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1318191917' post='2821665']
No doubt your aid will be enjoyed by Legion as they take it from the hapless people you are funding and use it against NSO who is the only alliance giving them a fight. So in the end your funding the embarrassment of your allies, the death of IAA and Legions war against NSO. I guess your right your getting one hell of a bang for your buck.
[/quote]

This. Times 100.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1318191917' post='2821665']
Are you kidding? No doubt your offer of aid encouraged IAA and BTA to fumble into to this thing. In the end IAA will be lucky if they do not disband before the war is over and both IAA and BTA have been exposed as complete shells of what once were alliances. No doubt your aid will be enjoyed by Legion as they take it from the hapless people you are funding and use it against NSO who is the only alliance giving them a fight. So in the end your funding the embarrassment of your allies, the death of IAA and Legions war against NSO. I guess your right your getting one hell of a bang for your buck.
[/quote]

Bollocks, this is a complete misrepresentation based upon knowing nothing and guessing everything. We offered the aid after it became apparent Legion's allies had pre-emptively accepted defeat and we felt we could still help out an ally, not before the war as some sort of sweetener to push them into the fires. Also: hapless? What are you talking about? The active core of IAA that is fighting is no less competent than anyone else. We're sending money to nations who are fighting, and while a sizeable portion of IAA may not have turned up (which, in turn, is not my place to comment upon, and your eagerness to do so probably reflects your own sorry eagerness to see them fall) those that have are fighting just fine.

But go on, please continue to libel our good name.

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1318191917' post='2821665']
In the end IAA will be lucky if they do not disband before the war is over
[/quote]

But if they do disband, it follows that their nations will migrate to either TLR or GATO. Open your eyes man, it's obvious that this whole thing is a conspiracy.

[magicninja]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1318191917' post='2821665']
Are you kidding? No doubt your offer of aid encouraged IAA and BTA to fumble into to this thing. In the end IAA will be lucky if they do not disband before the war is over and both IAA and BTA have been exposed as complete shells of what once were alliances. No doubt your aid will be enjoyed by Legion as they take it from the hapless people you are funding and use it against NSO who is the only alliance giving them a fight. So in the end your funding the embarrassment of your allies, the death of IAA and Legions war against NSO. I guess your right your getting one hell of a bang for your buck.
[/quote]


TBH I don't think IAA knew we were going to aid them until the thread came out. I seriously doubt our aid would have had any bearing on their decision as they were set on going in with NsO from the get go. We knew they were not in the greatest shape they have ever been so that is why we offered to aid them. If you like we can just oA on to Legion and end all ridiculous speculation.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1318192446' post='2821673']
Bollocks, this is a complete misrepresentation based upon knowing nothing and guessing everything. We offered the aid after it became apparent Legion's allies had pre-emptively accepted defeat and we felt we could still help out an ally, not before the war as some sort of sweetener to push them into the fires. Also: hapless? What are you talking about? The active core of IAA that is fighting is no less competent than anyone else. We're sending money to nations who are fighting, and while a sizeable portion of IAA may not have turned up (which, in turn, is not my place to comment upon, and your eagerness to do so probably reflects your own sorry eagerness to see them fall) those that have are fighting just fine.

But go on, please continue to libel our good name.
[/quote]

If you really wanted to help your ally out you should have kept them from floundering into a war they had no business being in and are completely unprepared to fight. Instead of just tossing some money at the few of them that staggered into the war so they could pass it on to Legion maybe you should be encouraging them to get out this public face palm and do something to try and same them from dying off.