Another Statement from BFF

[Devilyn Caster]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1358192558' post='3076238']
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b]haha that's over with now, but thanks
[b]Vibi: [/b]any possible war, i will going it((break))just create war

[b]Chax: [/b][s]Are you guys going in alone on this? BFF's not thrilled about the situation, but we've got your backs if needed.[/s] [color=green]So what's your plan with this?[/color]
[b]Vibi: [/b]i decided aided kaskus cos NSO got bombed aid from shangrila((break))and also i read your pm about your situation
[b]Chax: [/b][s]haha that's over with now, but thanks[/s] [color=green]That situation blew over, haha[/color]
[/quote]

Out of curiosity, what transpired in this pm? or is that an OOC issue? I guess my question is if it is relevant to the reasoning of NEW and their aiding of Kaskus.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358194565' post='3076264']
I have nothing more to prove. My sole agenda was to prove to BFF, and their allies that Chax was lying and misled them.

I know for a fact that BFF and ther allies are better off now.
[/quote]

Yeh, he lead BFF on a dark path from which there is no return.

[Spaarlaamp]

I support Chax is this, but Deebo is still the worst person I know.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Spaarlaamp

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Ovidsidios' timestamp='1358193815' post='3076254']
From what I understand, the act of aiding Kaskus without the proper notification would still be a violation of our article 2, and as such a nullifying of our treaty. The continuation of the cancellation would have nothing to do with the fabrication of the logs.
[/quote]

What if Chax was informed by NEW and he decided just to not tell anyone about it? Or even worse, he encouraged NEW to aid Kaskus in order to expand this war like he was encouraging NEW to attack NPO in these logs?

Note: I do not know as I haven't been able to talk to Vibi yet, but theres some food for thought.

[longnameislonger]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1358190881' post='3076215']
And I apologize to anyone who I argued with, I took an ally at his word and feel betrayed. I'm not afraid to admit when I was wrong and I want to thank Rob for helping prove this lie.
[/quote]

I promise to act immature about this next time I see you in the VE embassy.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Devilyn Caster' timestamp='1358194699' post='3076266']
Out of curiosity, what transpired in this pm? or is that an OOC issue? I guess my question is if it is relevant to the reasoning of NEW and their aiding of Kaskus.
[/quote]

BFF almost went to war 2 weeks beforehand (I forget the reasoning but its in one of the 50 page threads) and asked for NEWs help, and NEW said they would help.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358194565' post='3076264']


I have nothing more to prove. My sole agenda was to prove to BFF, and their allies that Chax was lying and misled them.

I know for a fact that BFF and ther allies are better off now.
[/quote]

Except I don't see that you've done that. You've certainly raised some troubling questions and shattered any trust in Chax in some people. I'm just more difficult to convince. I dont care about Chax or BFF at all really. In my eyes all you have is Chax changing the words in logs that barely (if not at all) change the meaning. Like I said previously...I don't care if he did commiserate with NEW on NPO because NEW (if history is any indication) doesn't need encouragement. It's moot to me. How did his words change anything?

[IYIyTh]

[size=4]Sniper Joe, I love you.[/size]


But make it stop. Make it all stop! D:

Also, here's my shocked face:

[img]http://jbsvintage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/etrade-kid-shocked-face.jpg[/img] Edited January 14, 2013 by IYIyTh

[magicninja]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1358194683' post='3076265']


Based on the OP there are more logs but for opsec reasons they can't be released. So I imagine Chax's betrayal goes a little bit further.
[/quote]

We could all imagine away. There's no proof of that. I would love to see it myself. I really don't see what is opsec about anything in this situation anymore...certainly not between BFF and NEW. It's already been laid pretty bare with the culminating action of the cancellation.

[Spaarlaamp]

So BFF is throwing Chax under the bus to avoid a war with NG and NSO..? Ok..

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1358195194' post='3076274']
[size=4]Sniper Joe, I love you.[/size]


But make it stop. Make it all stop! D:

Also, here's my shocked face:

[img]http://jbsvintage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/etrade-kid-shocked-face.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

How do you think I feel man...after all this is over I'm gonna take a nice long bubble bath.

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1358195390' post='3076278']
So BFF is throwing Chax under the bus to avoid a war with NG and NSO..? Ok..
[/quote]

Yes.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sniper Joe

[Isaac MatthewII]

this is innnnteresting..

[Robster83]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358195047' post='3076272']
Except I don't see that you've done that. You've certainly raised some troubling questions and shattered any trust in Chax in some people. I'm just more difficult to convince. I dont care about Chax or BFF at all really. In my eyes all you have is Chax changing the words in logs that barely (if not at all) change the meaning. Like I said previously...I don't care if he did commiserate with NEW on NPO because NEW (if history is any indication) doesn't need encouragement. It's moot to me. How did his words change anything?
[/quote]

Do you ever read what someone has said to you? Or do you just spout whatever you have to say regardless of their replies?

I have already told you, that my only agenda was proving to BFF and its allies that Chax was manipulative and untrustworthy. That was accomplished. BFF ousted Chax from government and he lost the support of BFF's allies. I am right -- objectively. Trying to deny that makes you look like an idiot. Why you believe I have to prove anything to you is beyond me. That's a massively overinflated ego you have there.

Anyway, I have said what I have to say. Your opinion is hardly relevant.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Robster83

[Ovidsidios]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1358194430' post='3076263']
Nobodies denying that they should have contacted you. But you chose the most extreme option, rather than working with them to resolve it while maintaining a friendship (one sided it appears), NEW would Burn down to the ground for you, they obviously wouldn't have that kind of friendship returned. You acted rashly, you should have found an alternative option than outright cancelling on them. What's happened here is a friendship is ruined, because you chose to drop them instead of working with them to keep a friendship alive, not only that, the manner in which they were treated with the backroom chats with the people that were going to roll them was despicable and !@#$%*. If they ever deal with you again and strike up a friendship, it will only show their quality they have as human beings.
[/quote]

You speak in hindsight, and that is disappointing. That you speak so unempathetically is all the more saddening. Their is, was, and has yet to be discovered so much to this situation that you are now blindly assuming the role of vindicator as we did not too long ago. What's more is you are forgetting to understand that it is we who are bringing this to light, we who are working our hardest to get to the bottom of this (not excluding the works of others who are working as equally hard with us). You think that we harbor some malice in our mechanics, and confuse our fervor for truth as zealotry in our wants. Which is far from the case. As to the makings of our responses to each other's call is neither in your power to predict nor to determine.

Seeing your absolute wanton stance on the matter, I don't see speaking to you yielding anything more useful than salt to a wound.


[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1358195390' post='3076278']
So BFF is throwing Chax under the bus to avoid a war with NG and NSO..? Ok..
[/quote]

We are following the constructs of our Charter. What war will come we have yet to determine. We must be steadfast in our efforts, but hope is a flickering luxury at the moment.

[Goldie]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358195309' post='3076276']
We could all imagine away. There's no proof of that. I would love to see it myself. I really don't see what is opsec about anything in this situation anymore...certainly not between BFF and NEW. It's already been laid pretty bare with the culminating action of the cancellation.
[/quote]

I highly doubt BFF gov has these logs, seeing as they only just got the primary logs a couple of hours ago.

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1358195390' post='3076278']
So BFF is throwing Chax under the bus to avoid a war with NG and NSO..? Ok..
[/quote]

It seems more like that after having been deceived by Chax, they are distancing themselves from him. If NG or NSO wants to hit them for some reason over this that would be their prerogative.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1358195555' post='3076281']


Do you ever read what someone has said to you? Or do you just spout whatever you have to say regardless of their replies?

I have already told you, that my only agenda was proving to BFF and its allies that Chax was manipulative and untrustworthy. That was accomplished. BFF ousted Chax from government and he lost the support of BFF's allies. I am right -- objectively. Trying to deny that makes you look like an idiot. Why you believe I have to prove anything to you is beyond me. That's a massively overinflated ego you have there.

Anyway, I have said what I have to say. Your opinion is hardly relevant.
[/quote]

As a CnG gov member my opinion is always relevant. Didn't you know that?.

I said you made an impact with some...no doubt. I just don't see in your logs where Chax was manipulative. Untrustworthy? Maybe depending on his motives I guess. I'm sure you convinced everyone who takes things at face value and have no critical thinking skills with the logs in the op. Hopefully you should people who would care the full story because the op still shows little to nothing and leaves more questions than answers.

[Daimos]

Why would Chax post fabricated logs in public intentionally? Does the leader of NEW do not read the OWF? If so, maybe he should start. Specially when it involves his alliance on the brink of war.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358195309' post='3076276']
We could all imagine away. There's no proof of that. I would love to see it myself. I really don't see what is opsec about anything in this situation anymore...certainly not between BFF and NEW. It's already been laid pretty bare with the culminating action of the cancellation.
[/quote]

All the people involved (i.e. Goldie of VE, SniperJoe of BFF and a few others) as well as Robster (who gathered evidence from all sides) are telling you that they have seen it and they believe that Chax was screwing people over (Even though they are allies/friends of Chax for YEARS) .. if you don't believe them at their word then you are too dense to warrant another response imo.

[magicninja]

Now talk of war? Must be a lot hidden.....I see no reason for NG or NSO to be angry with the logs provided...as amused as any of us but to declate war? Why?

[D34th]

First of all congratulations to Robster, I know how is hard to have everyone against you on this boards, I saw you fought the good fight and won, cheers!

So after all NEW aided Kaskus just as a retaliation for Shangri-la aid fall to NSO, there were no master plans to cause a global war, just a friend help another friend in time of need, and before the "But they don't have a treaty!" arguments begin remember that based in the Moldavi doctrine, created by the alliance who is one of the protagonists of this stupid war, you don't need a treaty to intervene in another conflict. Now, with everything clarified is BFF and INT resigning the treaties they canceled because Chax manipulated the information? I (can only) hope so.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1358196016' post='3076288']


All the people involved (i.e. Goldie of VE, SniperJoe of BFF and a few others) as well as Robster (who gathered evidence from all sides) are telling you that they have seen it and they believe that Chax was screwing people over (Even though they are allies/friends of Chax for YEARS) .. if you don't believe them at their word then you are too dense to warrant another response imo.
[/quote]

I haven'trusted VE in years. SniperJoe could be making a power play. Who the hell is Robster anyway?

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1358196002' post='3076287']Why would Chax post fabricated logs in public intentionally?[/quote]

Nobody knows. That's part of the reason why this is so distressing. I don't see how any of this leaves much room for interpretation; it's clear that NEW didn't force our hand as we previously thought and that he lied about it. The rest is window dressing.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358196130' post='3076290']
First of all congratulations to Robster, I know how is hard to have everyone against you on this boards, I saw you fought the good fight and won, cheers!

So after all NEW aided Kaskus just as a retaliation for Shangri-la aid fall to NSO, there were no master plans to cause a global war, just a friend help another friend in time of need, and before the "But they don't have a treaty!" arguments begin remember that based in the Moldavi doctrine, created by the alliance who is one of the protagonists of this stupid war, you don't need a treaty to intervene in another conflict. Now, with everything clarified is BFF and INT resigning the treaties they canceled because Chax manipulated the information? I (can only) hope so.
[/quote]

This is not a game changer. NEW endangered us without talking to us. The cancellation remains in place.

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358196160' post='3076291']
I haven'trusted VE in years. SniperJoe could be making a power play. Who the hell is Robster anyway?
[/quote]

Your tinfoil hat is cutting off the circulation to your brain.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sniper Joe

[Lord Bit]

After reading most of this, one fact is for sure, I am KICKING Hereno to the curb! **Robster83*** Me like your profile Picture! Brehon you can have that shangra la Tramp, she is all yours.

[Judge X]

There is quite a bit more information out there. Even more than what BFF/Robster83 hold. Posting 1/50th of the logs, to me, is not damning in any respect of Chax on the OWF. I have to agree with MagicNinja whole heartedly. He is making observations on the information he has while he is being told he is wrong(at the very least. Almost to the point of being called an idiot in my opinion) because there are a lot more logs. To infer that he is incorrect is ludicrous because he is 100% on point for the information that he has. the other 49/50th be damned. If your not going to give up the information then don't argue about information he doesn't have.

The point here is that it was a one way relationship with NEW. NEW of course was always willing to burn, nay looked forward to it, for BFF and all their allies. On the other hand a single incident where NEW might need allies because they were being NEW resulted in the immediate cessation of their treaty. This is the reason there are ODP's.

Furhter speculation into the incident is sensless without all the information. This however is a good lesson that while some alliances are good allies, some are not good Bloc-mates.

The International is a whole different story. They were not in a bloc together, NEW's recent "hibernation" has caused a complete lack of communication for a long period of time, and this completely took them by surprise as they didn't even get a "Chax-like" conversation out of NEW.

For the record though each of them had their right within the confines of their treaties. BFF, however unknowingly, carried a further burden of at least having communications as to the matter.

NEW made a mistake. They had no idea why the war was going on and truthfully did not care. They just wanted some action, saw Shangri-La aid NSO and decided to aid Kaskus to try and get some action of their own. There was no malicious intent. NEW does not have anything against NSO or Shangri-La. They just wanted a little fun to get activity up. I almost have no doubt that NSO might have been ok with a few rounds of good natured war. NSO turned a blind eye to early NEW aid as they didn't want to cripple or beat down Kaskus in any way.

Kaskus made an ass of themselves on the OWF taking advantage of NSO's reluctance to go full bore against them even though NSO did not intend to fight Kaskus, but to go the pre-agreed 3 rounds of war with Unkown Smurf for his transgressions, that if you don't know by now, your lost as it is. Kaskus refused because they wanted some war as well. It in itself was not maliscious, just fool hardy and inconsiderate.

[Lord Bit]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1358196160' post='3076291']


I haven'trusted VE in years. SniperJoe could be making a power play. Who the hell is Robster anyway?
[/quote]WHO THE HELL IS ROBSTER??? did you see those cans? THATS ENOUGH for me