A Statement from Doomhouse

[SirWilliam]

Indeed, my dear nippy.

[Biff Webster]

Stop lampooning us.

[Schattenmann]

I've just been having a good chuckle at your coalition's continued high rhetoric which is always immediately abandoned 5 seconds later.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='+Zeke+' timestamp='1300844369' post='2673470']
Meh, I give you a pass from my usual digs. You stuck with the bald truth and skipped the spin. For the short term it is no real disadvantage, given your current tech advantage over the rest of Bob in general. And you should retain your advantage over your direct enemies for quite some time in the future unless you get lazy later. But if this war goes long the rest of Bob will gain a leg up on you unless you drop the aid. That could change the power dynamic. A long term war creates a realistic problem for your team over these aid slots. You will have to chose between growth or aid. Both choices come with certain repercussions. Our side knows this. We know we can tie you up for a while and force you to decide. Will you drop support for your lower tiers so we can really pile on the pain and begin clearing out safe zones for our our lower tiers to thrive again? Or will you allow the rest of Bob to grow closer in size to your side and negate a lot of your dominance. Maybe you split the difference, but that just means you get eaten a little on both ends. That also doesn't include the precedence that attacking us in the future assumes we will always keep dragging it out. Try telling your troops that every year you roll on us it will take a half year to cap it off. How many bites of that apple before it goes sour? I'm not a daft fanboy screaming your days are almost over. Your side has the advantage right now, plain and simple. But with the long view we can see the hard choices we can create for you if this goes long. So if you find us a bit more belligerent in negotiations now than you had expected, then know what we can see down the road. Going long is looking better every day.
[/quote]
By the time the lack of tech importation because serious we'll have worn your lower tiers out to the point where our lower nations don't need much if any aid.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1300839854' post='2673424']
[list=1]
[*]Pay bills = 200k
[*]1 mill at replacing losses? What losses? Because the majority of that cost comes from buying airplanes, and due to the heavy tech advantage our nuke nations in that range have, their planes are likely to be better as well. Don't believe me? I've yet to fight someone with higher than level 4 planes, and I have level 8s, and I got there by my own, getting tech from your nations
[*]Buy infra back up, really? With improvements, wonders, minimal loss of infra due to tech advantage, really? That's not a feasable number my dear
[*]Rebuy spies... Oh my, 2-4 m, every day? Again, I have yet to see any peeps with more spies than 50 in the lower ranks, and when we have 800, you don't lose that many spies
[*]navies? With what land?
[*]And this is just if you presume that [b]all[/b] your [b]non-funded[/b] nations work at an optimal efficiency... Pro tip: They don't
[/list]
[/quote]


You seem to assume that all our nations down at the low levels are no tech, no wonder nations. Out of all the wars I have fought since the 1st week, only have had 1-2 total that have a tech advantage over me.

Don't forget that now all our previously large nations are down low and fighting.

///here is a tip for your side...don't send and unescorted bombing run when I have fighters left and a AADN...doesn't work (free tip back)

[+Zeke+]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300850134' post='2673535']
By the time the lack of tech importation because serious we'll have worn your lower tiers out to the point where our lower nations don't need much if any aid.
[/quote]

No seriously, this from MK?

I could see Umbrella or TOP thinking that for a goodly while, though I think they are smart enough to look that far over the horizon and possibly reconsider if this really drags out.

But MK? Dude, your middle is getting torn up. Break out all the fog machines and spin cycles you want, but it's just playing show tunes for the bystanders.

[Learz]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1300830534' post='2673324']
I see two major flaws in your write-up.

1) You make the assumption that all 400 of GOONS's nations require constant aid to continue fighting. We aren't even at a 1:1 nation to war ratio, and most of our wars are offensive. We're dictating the flow of the battle, and the battle is flowing just fine.
2) You vastly over-estimate the daily cost of an average Goon during wartime. Have a look at our Wonder and Improvement counts, and estimate how many of us actually need to spend half of that. No nukes, no spies, no navy. Also, a good 1k infra nuclear nation will have Labour Camps, which will bring daily bills down to about 200k.
[/quote]
As I said int he beginning, the post was going to gloss over stuff and ignore details to illustrate the bigger picture. So to point 1, I used GOONS as an example because they had a large base. You'll note I did not add MK into those numbers, as they are receiving large amounts of aid as well. But given the stats I have about aid flowing into GOONS, we can estimate that, what, 200-300 nations are receiving aid? Perhaps not getting maxed out (due to sending slot problems), but good enough. The overall problem remains.

As to the flow of battle, can't disagree with you there. I would point out that the majority of GOONS' battles are at the under 10K NS range, which is relatively minor (yes, you are doing damage and keeping many nations pinned down there). But GOONS themselves are pinned in that layer, unable to rise. If the war continues on for any length of time, you'll hit an artificial ceiling that you can't cross, no matter how much aid you get.

For point 2, let's say, I dunno, 500K in expenses a day? Again, assuming your under 10K NS. That doesn't give you much to work with. Granted, you'll take out the people at your range with that kind of money, but it's useless once you get to 15K or 20K NS. Not tenable in the longterm. Also, the labor camps were factored in to the costs I listed.

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1300839854' post='2673424']
Ok, listen up sunshine, here is the problem with your train of thought:

[list=1]
[*]Pay bills = 200k
[*]1 mill at replacing losses? What losses? Because the majority of that cost comes from buying airplanes, and due to the heavy tech advantage our nuke nations in that range have, their planes are likely to be better as well. Don't believe me? I've yet to fight someone with higher than level 4 planes, and I have level 8s, and I got there by my own, getting tech from your nations
[*]Buy infra back up, really? With improvements, wonders, minimal loss of infra due to tech advantage, really? That's not a feasable number my dear
[*]Rebuy spies... Oh my, 2-4 m, every day? Again, I have yet to see any peeps with more spies than 50 in the lower ranks, and when we have 800, you don't lose that many spies
[*]navies? With what land?
[*]And this is just if you presume that [b]all[/b] your [b]non-funded[/b] nations work at an optimal efficiency... Pro tip: They don't
[/list]
[/quote]
[i]Checks your NS.[/i]
Ah, 8K. See my above point. Yeah, you're able to do damage at that size, but once you get enough aid and try to break up, you'll be crushed. For example, look at my nation. This is where the major battle is taking place, the numbers I threw up were based off of this relative size (about 15K-30K). It'll be cheaper the lower you go, and more expensive the higher you get. Also, navies are very, very well used when you have under 1K land.

[quote]If you seriously believe that this will weaken Umbrella's position in CN, you are very mistaken. The only ones that won't use [i]years[/i] to come up to their level is their close allies. And if your low tier nations don't get funded from your peace mode warriors (hint, they won't), they won't be fighting for years, and Umbrella & co can start buying tech again. All this while your small nations are in ruins, or gone, and your high tier nations can't grow because of peace mode penalties[/quote]
It will weaken their position; that's a given fact. How much it will weaken seems up to debate, and like most things won't be settled in this thread
Lower tier nations don't need funding to fight. Note: difference between winning and fighting. But we will effectively be able to control the middle and eventually lower tiers.

[quote]Here we go again.... Your thesis is built on the thought that [b]all[/b] GOON nations need aid, and that [b]all[/b] their aid has to come from Umbrella. If you take a look at their aid screen, you can see that this theory is wrong. Hell, some GOON nations are even funding [i]other[/i] GOON nations... [/quote]
No, I even mentioned that. I was using stylized examples with rough numbers from GOONS and Umbrella to show why I was laughing so much at the outrageous statements made earlier in thread. MK and GOONS are sucking up aid, primarily from TOP and Umbrella (and some of MK's upper). There are at least a dozen other alliances throwing out some token aid, but unless that increases there's not going to be enough aid to go around. Which leads to the next point:

[quote]Again, for this to be a valid point, we must assume the following:

[list=1]
[*]GOONS are fighting a losing war
[*][b]All[/b] your nations can fight forever without aid
[*]It will sacrifice the security of Umbrella
[/list]

All these points are wrong however[/quote]
GOONS are stuck. They are barely able to stay alive at the lower levels, and that's only with billions and billions of aid getting thrown at them. They can't grow or capitalize on their position, and once MK gets enough of their (middle tier) members to hippy, our focus will go back to GOONS simply because we're out of targets.
Second, we can't fight *forever* without aid (well, a few probably could, but let's assume they are the exception). Most of the lower tier can't do much. But the middle tier has full control, and they *can* fight forever because they are big enough. Once the middle tier gets cleared out, they can start helping the lower tier. Will that change things, I don't know. But it's an unknown variable.
Third, this was covered. I dunno, personally, I think if you had come to Umbrella last year and said "hey! would it affect your alliance's security if you couldn't use aid slots for a whole year?" they would say yes. Now, you're saying that Umbrella is fine with not using their aid slots for a whole year. Like I said above, open to debate.


[quote]Are you even believing this yourself? Seriously? The reason they activated treaties was because you were too small to hit. That's not a good thing...I think you need to take a look in the mirror pal, because you have to realize how wrong you actually are... If you want to survive as a bunch of ankle biting nations forever, go ahead, because that seems to be your only option. And then it won't matter how "good you are" at fighting, because you can't ever grow, and neither can your friends. And if your friends can't grow, they can't damage us. And if you can't damage us, we don't care [i]at all[/i] if you have survived or not.
[/quote]
First, your post can easily be applied to GOONS, lol. Second, that's teh point I'm trying to make! We can cap GOONS, ruin MK and then cap them, and tie up aid slots indefinitely. Winning? Of course not. Losing? Of course not. Permanently stuck with the majority of DH going nowhere? ...yeah. Like I said, Pyrrhic victory. Sure, your large nations are free. Our middle tier (and eventually, lower tier) nations will be free. Longterm solution? No, for both sides. Again, you're proving my point here.


[quote name='janax' timestamp='1300840025' post='2673426']
You are assuming each GOON needs 15-18 million every 10 days and thus, full aid slots (1.5-1.8 million PER DAY) to wage war in the 1-10K NS range. False assumption, as it is no where near accurate. Most warfare in the 1k infra range is NOT nuclear. Most GOONS do not need to rebuy to 1K to get nukes. They can survive on 3-6 million EASY.
[/quote]
Again, as addressed above, I would glossing over details to show a point, which seems to have been fully absorbed by people given that no one is going after the math. So Let's extend your example to the logical conclusion. GOONS wins at the 1-10K NS range. NPO&Co. win at the, um, let's say 15-50K range. GOONS continues to receive an infinite aid flow. Do they take down the NPO&Co. nations? Obviously the answer is no. So no solution for both sides. It's a stalemate. AND YES I KNOW! I know I'm glossing over the big nations, and growth of our side, and lack of nukes by GOONS and all that. It's an example! Take the point from it! The point is the aid flow does not work past a short period of time, either because the nation receiving the aid is dead (the example in my wall'o'text), or because they are so small they can't do anything. Aid flows no longer work in modern battles. They are as outdated as banks, for almost the same reason.

[quote]Look at my alliance...now back to yours. Your alliance is not my alliance. Look at our tech, now back to yours. Look at our nukes, now back to yours. I'm on a horse.

I think that's all I need to say about that.[/quote]
Uhymm, what? That made no sense. Could you be more specific?

Also, I apologize for any typos and stuff, it's been a long day.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='+Zeke+' timestamp='1300851844' post='2673556']
No seriously, this from MK?

I could see Umbrella or TOP thinking that for a goodly while, though I think they are smart enough to look that far over the horizon and possibly reconsider if this really drags out.

But MK? Dude, your middle is getting torn up. Break out all the fog machines and spin cycles you want, but it's just playing show tunes for the bystanders.
[/quote]

Oh no, people at war are taking damage, the horror.

[quote]GOONS are stuck. They are barely able to stay alive at the lower levels, and that's only with billions and billions of aid getting thrown at them. They can't grow or capitalize on their position,[/quote]
"lol".

Edited March 23, 2011 by Sardonic

[Learz]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300852506' post='2673567']
"lol".
[/quote]
'tis true

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300852836' post='2673573']
'tis true
[/quote]
No it's not, not in the least, perhaps you haven't been keeping track of the many ways we are "capitalize[ing] on [our] position." Have you checked our membership count recently? Made note of the money we are going to be pulling in? I assure you, we intend to enjoy the benefits of our position to great effect. Also seeing as how only a maximum of 12.5% or so of our alliance has defensive wars (assuming 50 def wars, 400 membership), I think we're "staying alive" just fine.

[janax]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300852414' post='2673565']

Uhymm, what? That made no sense. Could you be more specific?

Also, I apologize for any typos and stuff, it's been a long day.
[/quote]

Argent - 58 nations, 228,749 tech, 50K avg ns

Rectum Inversion - 65 nations, 94,753 tech, 27k avg ns

My point? I am pretty sure we don't need finance advice from you. We seem to do ok in that department.

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300852836' post='2673573']
'tis true
[/quote]

Actually, looking at both the stats breakdown of the alliances involved, plus the raw number of new recruits GOONS have coming in, they've got one of the best growth potentials of any alliance still at war, and post-war that potential goes up even more.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300852414' post='2673565']
As I said int he beginning, the post was going to gloss over stuff and ignore details to illustrate the bigger picture. So to point 1, I used GOONS as an example because they had a large base. You'll note I did not add MK into those numbers, as they are receiving large amounts of aid as well. But given the stats I have about aid flowing into GOONS, we can estimate that, what, 200-300 nations are receiving aid? Perhaps not getting maxed out (due to sending slot problems), but good enough. The overall problem remains.
[/quote]
No, see, you're still making the assumption that every Goon [i]needs[/i] aid, and thus we have large amounts of nations going un-aided. And because you are so fond of math, here are some numbers:

There are 146 GOONS with current pending or accepted aid using 389 aid slots, which averages to 2.6 slots per nation receiving aid.

There are 67 Umbrellans with 291 accepted or pending aid slots, which averages to 4.3 slots per nation sending aid. That's a full 111 unused aid slots (Safe to assume they all have DRAs), and that doesn't even count their nations who aren't sending aid.

So no, the problem of there not being enough aid slots to cover GOONS's need does not exist.

[quote]
As to the flow of battle, can't disagree with you there. I would point out that the majority of GOONS' battles are at the under 10K NS range, which is relatively minor (yes, you are doing damage and keeping many nations pinned down there). But GOONS themselves are pinned in that layer, unable to rise. If the war continues on for any length of time, you'll hit an artificial ceiling that you can't cross, no matter how much aid you get.
[/quote]
That would be relevant if GOONS was the only ones fighting. Our job, for the most part, is to swarm all over nuclear nations that get knocked down under 15K NS and waste their time and money. If the battle ever comes to a stalemate where there's a layer of NS that's too low for our allies and too high for us, there are ways to deal with it.

[quote]
For point 2, let's say, I dunno, 500K in expenses a day? Again, assuming your under 10K NS. That doesn't give you much to work with. Granted, you'll take out the people at your range with that kind of money, but it's useless once you get to 15K or 20K NS. Not tenable in the longterm. Also, the labor camps were factored in to the costs I listed.
[/quote]
Fun fact: at least 50% of GOONS has never been in the 15-20K range. If they can get there through aid drops so they can snag a nuclear target and waste his money, that's a success in my book. We aren't at war to do econ and grow.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Lord Boris' timestamp='1300853924' post='2673582']
Actually, looking at both the stats breakdown of the alliances involved, plus the raw number of new recruits GOONS have coming in, they've got one of the best growth potentials of any alliance still at war, and post-war that potential goes up even more.
[/quote]
To be honest, this war has been great for their growth potential- I'm surprised GOONS aren't dragging it out as long as they can to keep bringing in new members

[BamaBuc]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300848261' post='2673512']
Mar 17 17:03:40 <Sardonic[GOONS]> like I said to them, I hate them
Mar 17 17:03:47 <Sardonic[GOONS]> they've $%&@ed with us in the past
Mar 17 17:03:47 <Heft> That is unfortunate
Mar 17 17:03:52 <Sardonic[GOONS]> lampooned us on the forums
Mar 17 17:03:57 <Heft> So?
Mar 17 17:04:13 <Heft> You can't possibly hate them because of that
Mar 17 17:04:19 <Sardonic[GOONS]> so why should I give them preferential treatment like i'm giving you?
Mar 17 17:04:22 <Heft> I don't even hate Ragnarok
Mar 17 17:04:44 <Sardonic[GOONS]> I can indeed hate CoJ and I do, so there.


Indeeeeeed.
[/quote]
My oh my. This is gold.

-Bama

[threefingeredguy]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300852414' post='2673565']Again, as addressed above, I would glossing over details to show a point, which seems to have been fully absorbed by people given that no one is going after the math. So Let's extend your example to the logical conclusion. GOONS wins at the 1-10K NS range. NPO&Co. win at the, um, let's say 15-50K range. GOONS continues to receive an infinite aid flow. Do they take down the NPO&Co. nations? Obviously the answer is no. So no solution for both sides. It's a stalemate. AND YES I KNOW! I know I'm glossing over the big nations, and growth of our side, and lack of nukes by GOONS and all that. It's an example! Take the point from it! The point is the aid flow does not work past a short period of time, either because the nation receiving the aid is dead (the example in my wall'o'text), or because they are so small they can't do anything. Aid flows no longer work in modern battles. They are as outdated as banks, for almost the same reason.[/quote]

Well, you're assuming there that your advantage in the mid tier will last forever. It can be dangerous to assume things like that.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1300856754' post='2673613']
My oh my. This is gold.

-Bama
[/quote]
I'm not seeing what's "gold" about it. I am giving preferential treatment to the ally of my treaty partner, as well as NSO because of their will to fight. I have no interest in letting CoJ off easy, as they have done nothing to earn it.

OOC: Signing your posts is moronic.

[janax]

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1300856754' post='2673613']
My oh my. This is gold.

-Bama
[/quote]

Breaking news from the front. STOP
GOONS do not care for CoJ. STOP
Reparations requested. STOP

(Since I assume you get your info via telegraph, based on the age of said news, I thought I'd make you more comfortable and put it in the proper format)

[SonOfHoward]

I'd like to congratulate Ardus on an epic 135 page thread.

(I haven't read any of this.)

Edited March 23, 2011 by SonOfHoward

[r00tn00b]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' timestamp='1300859107' post='2673635']
I'd like to congratulate Ardus on an epic 135 page thread.

(I haven't read any of this.)
[/quote]
If you had, you would not be congratulating anyone for anything

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300575251' post='2670448']
ITT: War is PZI.
[/quote]
That's nothing new as a claim; actually one might recall people saying Vox were on permazi because they were at war as well.

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1300575911' post='2670458']
Where is your evidence that NPO were in fact [b]not[/b] planning on entering the war?
[/quote]
I demand you produce evidence that GPA were in fact not planning on entering the war.

What, you can't find any? Oh that's right. You can't prove a negative.

Also I'd like to know when you're going to stop hitting your wife.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300605104' post='2670955']
Just like how the people who oAed into a war against GOONS are in defensive wars since we attacked NPO right?
[/quote]
Yes, that's right. You're the aggressor, people defending NPO are defenders, and no amount of e-lawyering will prove otherwise.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1300644104' post='2671177']
I think even with all of the alliances who will receive rep terms combined, that the number will not reach into the billions.
[/quote]
The total of the GOONS offers comes to roughly 3.7 billion actually.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300649546' post='2671261']
You do know they have just been in a large war? You do know that they will join this battle as they are obligated to do so under the treaty we hold with them.
[/quote]
Actually, they're not. Obligated, that is.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' date='12 October 2010 - 09:01 AM' post='2482286']
If a signatory wants to initiate aggressive action, the other signatories are encouraged but not obligated to provide military and financial assistance. Any plans to use military force will be communicated with other signatories in a timely manner.

Each signatory which has outside treaties agrees that those treaties will not chain to PB, and that PB will not chain to any outside treaty.[/quote]
You guys initiated an aggressive war using an outside treaty to PB. PB doesn't chain to Doomhouse.

They are encouraged to act, but of course that would mean them acting like CoJ and coming in on oA.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300655351' post='2671371']
This is the part that bothers me the most, its like people forgot about the negotiation part of surrender negotiations. Nobody counter offers. Or even worse, would make completely ludicrous counter offers and then act surprised when they were turned down.
[/quote]
You need to take a look in the mirror here.

When the opening offer is one month of war without using dove for NPO and nearly 4 billion in reps for the rest of the coalition, well, that's completely ludicrous.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300655351' post='2671371']
The winners make an offer, the other side goes "NO ONLY WHITE PEACE WE WILL NOT PAY YOU EVIL PEOPLE!" and runs the to the OWF with a drama fest.
[/quote]
Uh, we didn't post this thread.

Doomhouse made an offer, and NPO was discussing it with their allies when - roughly 24 hours after the initial offer was made - Doomhouse ran to the OWF to complain about NPO not bending over and taking it.

Once again, take a look in the mirror, please. Your allies started the OWF drama fest.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300657622' post='2671435']
Being a small alliance is no excuse for the crime of attacking GOONS. I already outlined my reasons CoJ is being treated specially earlier in this very thread, go read them.
[/quote]
It's because you guys have a grudge against them and are hoping you can get another disbandment. You could be less obvious about it though.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300662467' post='2671506']
NPO and its allies only had treaties to NpO's side.
[/quote]
Actually, we have a shared ally with GOONS.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300682130' post='2671897']
*sigh*

We've done that like 5 times now.
[/quote]
Produce evidence of NPO government officials at the IO level or higher stating that they were planning on entering the NpO war.

You can't, because they didn't.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300687944' post='2671969']
I mean, NPO is not a peripheral alliance.
[/quote]
We are well aware of the fact that NPO has been the primary target of this war since it began. Thanks for admitting that though.

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1300692018' post='2672032']
[b]A month of war will not keep NPO out of the game for 2 years.[/b]

It will keep them out of the planet for like...a month. How damaging do you really think a month of war really is? NPO will do just as much damage to DH's upper tier, so they'll be in the same relative postition.
[/quote]
NPO will not do just as much damage as Doomhouse. There are two main reasons for this.

[list=1]
[*]The tech advantage.
A 10K tech nation with a WRC does triple damage; that is, three times the damage of someone like, say, Methrage. Umbrella has 41 nations at the 10K tech line or above, with their highest being nearly 20K. NPO has one (at 13K).
[*]The numbers advantage.
This has been gone over a number of times. Basically Umbrella has so many 100K+ nations that in a war with NPO, they would be able to all triple-team NPO nations, with a very good chance that all of NPO's top nations would be below their range after one round of war, and certainly after two rounds of war. Which means that they would be able to retreat, get out of nuclear anarchy, and collect at 100%, while the NPO top nations would all be looking at certain nuclear anarchy collections.
[/list]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300761198' post='2672827']
The options were pretty clear: NPO enters and gets rolled with Polar and NPO doesn't enter and gets rolled alone given they'd be the main target after the Polar war.
[/quote]
So who's next on the Pandora's Box hitlist?

I mean, you right here admit that you planned this war to get #1 (Polar) and #2 (Pacifica). Who's on third?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300859408' post='2673638']
That's nothing new as a claim; actually one might recall people saying Vox were on permazi because they were at war as well.
[/quote]

But most (all?) Vox members actually [i]were[/i] on perma-ZI lists. They couldn't just accept individual surrender terms and be done with it, which NPO members can do if they like.

[Monster]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300859408' post='2673638']

Actually, we have a shared ally with GOONS.
[/quote]

Europa wasn't signed until midwar. Nice try though.


[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300859445' post='2673639']


So who's next on the Pandora's Box hitlist?

I mean, you right here admit that you planned this war to get #1 (Polar) and #2 (Pacifica). Who's on third?
[/quote]


That's quite an extrapolation, but the answer is MK. Actually it's funny you think there's an actual hitlist.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1300859408' post='2673638']
It's because you guys have a grudge against them and are hoping you can get another disbandment. You could be less obvious about it though.
[/quote]
Heh, I love the implication that we've disbanded alliances before. Really underscores your entire smarmy post. But no, we're not out for disbandment, we're willing to work with Schattenmann, provided he agrees to some sort of play. If he disbands because he cannot stomach the idea, that's really not our problem.