Kalasin Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 If this is sincere then I genuinely salute you. I know NPO's culture and I never, ever thought I would see this. I want to believe it, actually, but I'm a bit sceptical about its sincerity. In the past, NPO's every move was carefully thought out to further their own agenda and expand their influence, and I'm inclined to see this apology in the light of their former modus operandi. But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, because I don't like being cynical. [quote name='bakamitai' timestamp='1299989477' post='2662321'] As you well know, there are many on both sides that expect this war against NPO to be eternal. [/quote] If you really believe that, you're naive. [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299997227' post='2662540'] Interesting that you are privy to what NPO does at their highest levels of government. Damn, their security must be [i]really[/i] lax. [/quote] You clearly have no idea who Maskofblue is. [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300000639' post='2662635'] Does that mean that now NPO has no ability to look back ad say, [i]hm, you know what, that was a dick move, and maybe [u]we[/u] thought that our getting an ass-whipping and then letting the FAN thing lay would be satisfactory, it seems it wasn't and we should re-examine the issue.[/i] No, it doesn't. [/quote] Sure. But I don't like accepting anything at face value, let alone an apology from an alliance with a history of playing power politics. Use your brain, Schatt, you're an intelligent man. [quote name='Mary the Fantabulous' timestamp='1300002075' post='2662671'] Those of you that doubt our intentions will continue to do so; nothing will change your mind. You are invested in viewing us as evil and unchanging. [/quote] Yeah that's right, anyone who has the slightest hesitation about you is part of this one large conglomerate who won't listen to reason. [quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1300002569' post='2662684'] My post stands without any need for a built in moral judgment. The point was not that it is immoral to, in your words, play to win, but rather that when everything you do is a calculated political maneuver to expand your power base to destroy your opposition, firstly, future actions are likely going to be operating under the same MO, and, secondly, your conciliatory actions are going to be seen in the same light as your past ones, that is to say, insincere political scheming because that is, in all probability, precisely what they are. [/quote] Masky, this post wins the thread. Although like I said earlier in my post, it's nice to give them the benefit of the doubt, even if we don't have to like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300001575' post='2662654'] The [b]consistent[/b] and irrational hate aimed at everybody who's ever left NPO is also a great indicator of Pacifician Character to the rest of us. [/quote] A better indicator of character is viewing what maskofblue and cager had to say about FAN whilst still being members of NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) What is Vladimir's official stance on FAN now, out of curiosity? Is he going to rewrite his position? It was he who provided the ~intellectual justification~ for the war after all. Edited March 13, 2011 by Kalasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1300007914' post='2662746'] What is Vladimir's official stance on FAN now, out of curiosity? Is he going to rewrite his position? It was he who provided the ~intellectual justification~ for the war after all. [/quote] Well, I cannot give Vlad's opinion on this apology but I do want to ask Cager how easily his opinion changes when it comes to FAN. After all, it was cager who said this in regards to FAN being given white peace. Also, why do you care so much Kalasin? [quote]I wonder how long it'll be before FAN decides to turn on some of the people who have been harping for their freedom.[/quote] How does it work Cager, NPO cannot apologise but you can? Actually, have you ever apologised to FAN for your part in the hostilities against them? Or am I asking a hypocrite a question he cannot answer with an honest answer or did FAN suddenly become your best friend when you left NPO? If only NPO made friends as easily as you do Cager, they wouldn't be friends of merit but that is beside the point isn't it? Edited March 13, 2011 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300007531' post='2662744'] A better indicator of character is viewing what maskofblue and cager had to say about FAN whilst still being members of NPO. [/quote] They already left the alliance, this is a demonstrating of dissatisfaction and change. Since they, unlike the NPO as a whole, have done something concrete to separate themselves from their past the better question is what they say about it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300004192' post='2662716'] Besides, this is the behavior so many of you wanted from the NPO, so be happy. NPO could pass out free candy to everyone and someone would accuse them of hatching a plan to eat people. [/quote] The fact that said behavior only finally comes when the NPO is in the midst of being clobbered again really speaks to its genuineness (or, rather, its lack thereof). The NPO's unchanging character and longstanding reputation are such that it will never be given another chance. Nobody wants to risk the NPO getting back into power, and understandably so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300004192' post='2662716'] NPO could pass out free candy to everyone and someone would accuse them of hatching a plan to eat people. [/quote] They're just fattening us up first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300008315' post='2662751'] Also, why do you care so much Kalasin? [/quote] What gave you the impression that I cared a lot about NPO's ~sincere apology~? Also, stop saying 'you care too much' whenever I say anything anymore. [OOC] I still play CN and I still keep up to date on things that happen. [/OOC] Otherwise I'll just have to start cracking communist jokes. Edited March 13, 2011 by Kalasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Interesting move, regardless if it's for pure political reason or is at least somewhat sincere. For that reason, I like Read a lot of the comments in this thread and haven't seen anything from even a member of FAN. So, even if I knew everything about the situation, I'd not "take a side" on the matter before hearing from FAN Also wonder if this is going to start any sort of trend of alliances (NOT just NPO) making apologies for things they did wrong in the past. Yeah, yeah - 2 years of war is really nasty. However, that doesn't mean that NPO should apologize and a number of other alliances who have also done really nasty things should not. Attempted murder is nasty. If someone does that and regrets it later, an apology is a start. However the fact that it's worse than assault doesn't mean the person who "just" breaks someones leg shouldn't apologize as well. Who wants to apologize next? Anyone want to make a list of suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 I am seeing only two types of responses. "NPO you should have done this sooner, you guys are such monsters" and "great job NPO". For the first, where were you guys when FAN was being persecuted? You have no right complaining about NPO's very late apology. As for the hailing of NPO's apology. This should have happened sooner but I guess the saying better late than never is appropriate here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300008345' post='2662752'] They already left the alliance, this is a demonstrating of dissatisfaction and change. Since they, unlike the NPO as a whole, have done something concrete to separate themselves from their past the better question is what they say about it now. [/quote] How convenient an answer, the issue with that is they didn't leave NPO because they were dissatisfied with how FAN were treated so your reply is of little relevance. [b]And NPO as a whole?[/b] I think you will find that around one third of NPO's membership have joined since Karma ended, therefore you are judging roughly one third of an alliance who have did no wrong. Indeed, you are labelling them guilty for past events in which they were not involved with. By that same logic, I believe VE, along with every other alliance who has ever been an ally of NPO, owe an apology to every single alliance who they have went to war with alongside NPO. Since every current member is to be held responsible for actions that their alliance has committed in the past then that is the only reasonable option. But of course, your hypocrisy only applies to NPO so my point is automatically wrong. [quote]Otherwise I'll just have to start cracking communist jokes. [/quote] No one is stopping you. Edited March 13, 2011 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 NPO's only surrender term should be that vlad acknowledges that NPO lost GW1, in less than twenty words. :finesmug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan100 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 We are sorry and I hope we can move forward [quote name='brickyard' timestamp='1299988517' post='2662271'] What a joke this is. Two years too late, and it reeks of desperation. I hope FAN doubles its war effort as a direct result of this announcement. [/quote] I hope you do to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300010449' post='2662768'] How convenient an answer, the issue with that is they didn't leave NPO because they were dissatisfied with how FAN were treated so your reply is of little relevance. [b]And NPO as a whole?[/b] I think you will find that around one third of NPO's membership have joined since Karma ended, therefore you are judging roughly one third of an alliance who have did no wrong. Indeed, you are labelling them guilty for past events in which they were not involved with. By that same logic, I believe VE, along with every other alliance who have ever been an ally of NPO, owe an apology to every single alliance who they have went to war with alongside NPO. Since every current member is to be held responsible for actions that their alliance has committed in the past then that is the only reasonable option. But of course, your hypocrisy only applies to NPO so my point automatically wrong. [/quote] Once again we're on this route where you claim that the NPO allies have not made any amends for what they did. Mpol said himself that most of the old NPO allies have already come to them to make amends for what they did. A lot of them have come to us too which is one of the reasons we can have very good relations with a lot of them today. Edited March 13, 2011 by neneko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300012182' post='2662778'] Once again we're on this route where you claim that the NPO allies have not made any amends for what they did. Mpol said himself that most of the old NPO allies have already come to them to make amends for what they did. A lot of them have come to us too which is one of the reasons we can have very good relations with a lot of them today. [/quote] I wasn't referring only to FAN. [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1300010553' post='2662769'] NPO's only surrender term should be that vlad acknowledges that NPO lost GW1, in less than twenty words. :finesmug: [/quote] This apology was not about what you want, it is about NPO apologising to FAN. If you have an issue, take it up with us in private channels. If you want attention like you usually do, then keep on posting. Don't let anyone stop you. Edited March 13, 2011 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is just embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300012540' post='2662781'] I wasn't referring only to FAN. [/quote] They've come to FAN, they've come to us. That's all that I actually know but I wouldn't be surprised if they've gone around to others too. Do you have anything that support your claims that they haven't done any apologies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyster Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 All of this discussion here is so stupid. If FAN has something to say I'm very interested in hearing it, but MK, VE, GOONS and PC trolls.... why do you care? And why are our guys falling for their flame bates? Anyhow all I actually wanted to say is that imperial degrees don't look the same with out a nice *chuckle* in the begining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCynic Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 And moving with the relative apology speed of the Vatican... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300012724' post='2662785'] They've come to FAN, they've come to us. That's all that I actually know but I wouldn't be surprised if they've gone around to others too. Do you have anything that support your claims that they haven't done any apologies? [/quote] [quote]How convenient an answer, the issue with that is they didn't leave NPO because they were dissatisfied with how FAN were treated so your reply is of little relevance. And NPO as a whole? I think you will find that around one third of NPO's membership have joined since Karma ended, therefore you are judging roughly one third of an alliance who have did no wrong. Indeed, you are labelling them guilty for past events in which they were not involved with. By that same logic, I believe VE, along with every other alliance who has ever been an ally of NPO, owe an apology to every single alliance who they have went to war with alongside NPO. Since every current member is to be held responsible for actions that their alliance has committed in the past then that is the only reasonable option.[/quote] Reading what someone actually says is always a plus. Edited March 13, 2011 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1300013299' post='2662792'] Reading what someone actually says is always a plus. [/quote] You conclusion is that VE owes apologies to those that were wronged. My rebuttal was that they have actually made those apologies as far as i know. Care to enlighten me as to what I missed in your post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 There are an awful lot of posters in here not from FAN. I'm curious to see what their response to this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey, where's mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1300008567' post='2662754'] The fact that said behavior only finally comes when the NPO is in the midst of being clobbered again really speaks to its genuineness (or, rather, its lack thereof). The NPO's unchanging character and longstanding reputation are such that it will never be given another chance. Nobody wants to risk the NPO getting back into power, and understandably so. [/quote] Yes, because the world is filled with genuineness and sincerity around here. The idea that the NPO is unique for having considerations other than making everyone else feel good continues to puzzle. In any case, the only thing that matters here is what FAN thinks about this apology. Watching so many people who have nothing to do with the issue rush in to immediately denounce NPO's efforts here and continue these hyperbolic claims that NPO is the bogeyman is somewhat amusing, but really quite pointless. What you or I think about this really doesn't matter in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 (edited) Judging by the remarks in this thread NPO are never going to be allowed move on from periodical attacks. If you add the two wars, the year of reps and the black listing in between by the mainstream its going to pass the two years FAN keep harping on about very soon. [quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300015361' post='2662808'] Hey, where's mine? [/quote] Backstabbers and traitors dont get an apology they should give them. All the things you did for them over the years you are as guilty as them. Edited March 13, 2011 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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