A Dark Templar Announcement

[donbidarian]

i wont comment on who's good and who's bad(even though 40k is crazy no matter how you look at it)
just an advice, change your MoFA ASAP or your situation will be worse than it is now.

[Alterego]

[quote name='LAAT501legion' timestamp='1297690041' post='2632901']
40k tech?!
I'm speechless, I hope you weren't serious
[/quote]
from nations with over 2k tech

[ace072199]

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297689987' post='2632898']
LOL, Aurora Borealis.

Aren't you and yours the same scum who tried to coup our fellow SuperFriend, Monos Archein?
[/quote]

You shouldn't speak if you know nothing of the situation. That whole situation was handled poorly by people on both sides. There was no coup attempt, and Kaitlin (As far as she has told me) and I are over the whole thing.

Is that all you got? Dig a little further and talk some more about the past which you know nothing of, I find it rather humorous.

[Freelancer]

No need for pissing match Ace and RailForge, we all choose the path that best suited our members and alliance goals, what were seeing here is the unfortunate reality of WAR, we were all taught well, we paid attention to Fox News and MSNBC

[zzzptm]

Dark Templar is right to resist. The greed from CSN brings war without end.

[LAAT501legion]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1297690253' post='2632905']
from nations with over 2k tech
[/quote]
I knew that, I was just trying to make the post simple

[RailForge]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1297689546' post='2632896']
Miscommunication? Rok told you they were rolling with Polar and GOD ran off to the other side as quick as their little legs could carry them. It was a cold and calculated attempt by GOD to save their skin and not leave themselves being in the same position as Rok. They showed guts and GOD showed their infra hugging side.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're lying/trolling or if that's honestly how things looked on the OWF during the first couple of days. That's definitely not how things unfolded internally.

GOD has had a permanent MADP with VE for about 4 years now. There's no oA, it's just A. We don't fight on opposite sides ever. Rather than "running off to the other side", we were always with VE, from the moment that Impero had contact with Lennox. If you're that curious about how the spy CB was reacted to by GOD, then you can see Xiph's first response [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97492&view=findpost&p=2590234"]here[/url]. It's the IRC logs between Xiph and Impero as the allegations by Lennox were first revealed beyond VE.

The situation with RoK really was a massive miscommunication. It took a little while to untangle.

We know that RoK would burn for us, as we'd burn for them, even if the politics of the day means that we're fighting on opposite fronts right now.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1297661638' post='2632421']
Very well. Then why was he present and who came up with these terms?
[/quote]

my first guess would be because at the time he was at war with their protectorate and CSN came up with them.. I dunno, may be too far fetched.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1297663177' post='2632506']
If you would subject GOD to eternal war or excessive terms then you are no better than they. I would not stand for that. Even if it is GOD. I will say here and now that if GOD were abused in such a way during a war or peace process I would oppose that injustice as strongly as I do all others.[/quote]

I'm not even saying that Valhalla would be responsible. Indeed we don't work that way now. However, karma (small 'k') has a way of catching up to everyone on Planet Bob at some point, and Xiph and his comrades have went about accumulating it over a period of years in NPO-side quantities.

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297679400' post='2632805']
Compared to the disbandment or ZI that Xiph would have gone for? Yes.

When DT got the 10k/30k split that they asked for, they should have seized the peace deal with both hands.[/quote]

If you were trying to make the original demand for tech look reasonable, you're not only failing, you're making your boss look worse.

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297689987' post='2632898']
LOL, Aurora Borealis.

Aren't you and yours the same scum who tried to coup our fellow SuperFriend, Monos Archein?
[/quote]

They're also another alliance big bad Xiph threatened to disband. They're looking alive and kicking to me.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Poyplemonkeys

[ace072199]

[quote name='Freelancer' timestamp='1297690704' post='2632911']
No need for pissing match Ace and RailForge, we all choose the path that best suited our members and alliance goals, what were seeing here is the unfortunate reality of WAR, we were all taught well, we paid attention to Fox News and MSNBC
[/quote]

Freelancer, I can't believe I am saying this, but you are right.

[Lurunin]

i'm actually loving this thread...this is the first time in a long time that i've seen people on both sides of the treaty web agreeing on something....ty CSN for bringing that to light

(forgot to mention that it seems to be everybody that isnt directly treatied to CSN that is )

..l.as for my opinion....ODPs have been honored time and time and they wont ever be stopped from being signed nor activated...hell if you sign a treaty with your partners that shows that you are willing to go above and beyond to help them out...ODPs just mean that you can make sure that you arent caught up in a chaining cluster-$%&@ like how the current treaty web is made or make sure you dont have to be caught between a rock and a hard place with allies on opposite sides

...i'll leave this thread by posting a thread i made during Bipolar War:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=86349&st=0

there was a HUGE consensus that ODPs are a valid CB for entering a war for an ally...why that opinion has changed with CSN/GOD i have no idea

[wisd0m]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1297670712' post='2632686']
Please don't. We don't expect it and we don't want it. No one in GOD has any misconceptions that someone like Echelon or NPO would do everything we've done to them and worse, given the chance. Why do you think we're so harsh on our enemies? Out of petty cruelty? It may make for good jokes to say so, but I know you're too intelligent to honestly believe that. We know we have to do unto them so hard that they don't have the capacity left to do unto us in return. If we get terms after losing at all to one of the alliances that hates us, it will only be because they don't have the will, means, or political capital to disband us.
[/quote]

Wasn't that the old tC/1V move? It's inevitable that someone [i]will[/i] do that to you, [i]especially[/i] because of the harshness. I suppose history is ignored these days.

[wisd0m]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1297675155' post='2632748']
Of course not. With Xiphosis involved it would be like sending an elephant into a glass store.
[/quote]

Well said, good sir.

[Farnsworth]

I'm glad to see some more ODP love! I prefer ODPs, tbh. It's my opinion that paper, official documents, and treaties do not make a friendship. If your friend is in need and there's any feasible way to assist them then by all means do it. One should assist their allies because they are friends, not because some disposable piece of paper requires it. It's all about relationships. It's a sad day when you start ranking friends based on some silly, meaningless, alterable hierarchy. At that point there's something fundamentally wrong with one's perception of friendship.

Also, let's not forget that the CSN-Legacy treaty has a non-chaining clause. I'm no e-lawyer, but I do believe this means CSN's action (their DoW on DT) was merely optional as well. Granted, I'm not criticizing them for taking that option... merely pointing out what many will deem hypocritical. It's entirely possible my commentary is a bit late and that this line of defense has been rightfully abandoned.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1297678815' post='2632790']
Congratulations CSN, you are now worse than GGA ever was.
[/quote]

There are a lot of alliances vying for that title right now.

[wisd0m]

[quote name='Farnsworth' timestamp='1297694050' post='2632949']
Also, let's not forget that the CSN-Legacy treaty has a non-chaining clause. I'm no e-lawyer, but I do believe this means CSN's action (their DoW on DT) was merely optional as well. Granted, I'm not criticizing them for taking that option... merely pointing out what many will deem hypocritical. It's entirely possible my commentary is a bit late and that this line of defense has been rightfully abandoned.
[/quote]

You are completely correct. The hypocrisy is staggering, the ignorance of history is astonishing, and Liz's status as MoFA of CSN is hilarious.

[TECUMSEH]

Keep up the good fight, DT. Though, I must say, I enjoy watching CSN's full of fail shenanigans.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1297693061' post='2632939']
there was a HUGE consensus that ODPs are a valid CB for entering a war for an ally...why that opinion has changed with CSN/GOD i have no idea
[/quote]

It hasn't...but when you are struggling to provide some sort of justification for knocking an alliance out of Planet Bob politics for the next year or so because of treaty terms--and even by CSN/GOD's own admission--permanently cripple them assuming they don't disband, it fills in the blank on the form.

Excellent post, btw.

[RailForge]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1297693061' post='2632939']
there was a HUGE consensus that ODPs are a valid CB for entering a war for an ally...why that opinion has changed with CSN/GOD i have no idea
[/quote]

It hasn't changed at all. I don't know why you'd think that.

When you come in on an ODP you do it because you choose to. It's optional, it isn't an obligation. So when you fight based on an ODP it's because you want to fight those alliances, and the ability to claim that "we were just honoring treaties" is gone, unlike if they'd come in on an MDP. DT deliberately chose to make Legacy their enemy and had no obligation to do so. That blew back on them. It sucks for DT, but this is the path they chose and CN isn't a popularity contest.

[Mogar]

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297695264' post='2632956']
It hasn't changed at all. I don't know why you'd think that.

When you come in on an ODP you do it because you choose to. It's optional, it isn't an obligation. So when you fight based on an ODP it's because you want to fight those alliances, and the ability to claim that "we were just honoring treaties" is gone, unlike if they'd come in on an MDP. DT deliberately chose to make Legacy their enemy and had no obligation to do so. That blew back on them. It sucks for DT, but this is the path they chose and CN isn't a popularity contest.
[/quote]
so tl;dr don't defend your friends or else you'll be stuck with crippling reps for assisting your friend in a defensive war?

[wisd0m]

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297695264' post='2632956']
It hasn't changed at all. I don't know why you'd think that.

When you come in on an ODP you do it because you choose to. It's optional, it isn't an obligation. So when you fight based on an ODP it's because you want to fight those alliances, and the ability to claim that "we were just honoring treaties" is gone, unlike if they'd come in on an MDP. DT deliberately chose to make Legacy their enemy and had no obligation to do so. That blew back on them. It sucks for DT, but this is the path they chose and CN isn't a popularity contest.
[/quote]

You truly don't see the irony in how much you sound like NPO a few years ago, do you? Probably not. However, CSN deliberately chose to enter despite a no-chaining clause based on a link from a treaty to allies of allies. Are you seriously suggesting that there's no relevant contradiction inherent in this situation whatsoever?

Edited for spelling.

Edited February 14, 2011 by wisd0m

[Vespassianus]

Do you hate CSN and not in war against them? Declare on them, help to raise the new GRL record or just shut up, pointless crying is boring (especially from people who are allied to DT...). Loosing NS might convince people, but empty threats and "you are evil" shouts won't.

[erikz]

[quote name='RailForge' timestamp='1297695264' post='2632956']
It hasn't changed at all. I don't know why you'd think that.

When you come in on an ODP you do it because you choose to. It's optional, it isn't an obligation. So when you fight based on an ODP it's because you want to fight those alliances, and the ability to claim that "we were just honoring treaties" is gone, unlike if they'd come in on an MDP. DT deliberately chose to make Legacy their enemy and had no obligation to do so. That blew back on them. It sucks for DT, but this is the path they chose and CN isn't a popularity contest.
[/quote]

So you see treaties only as paper tigers? I would never treaty an alliance that isn't a friend of mine. Which means war on my friends, is war on me. ODP/MDoAP/MADP whatever... you mess with my friends, you mess with me.

DT came to the [i]defense[/i] of their friends, nothing more nothing less. Thats why reps, especially the amount demanded, are deplorable.

[wisd0m]

-

Edited August 17, 2012 by wisd0m