hullean Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 well its nice to see you in the fray RoK, have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1295548455' post='2586772'] This was only necessary because Polar is larger than VE. It was a necessity and you know it. [/quote] And it was necessary for us to go in, and you know it. So lets enjoy this war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sir Dingly Dang' timestamp='1295548636' post='2586779'] Actually, spying on VE is what made the treaties conflicting ; regardless, as soon as war broke out, RoK was in a tough position because of those treaties, which is what sucks. Once there was a CB, RoK was put in the middle of two allies. Had NpO declared on VE, RoK would have been mandated to defend VE. When VE attacks NpO, they are mandated to defend NpO. There only other choice is to ignore/drop a treaty, which isn't any better. And as my original post said, [b]after[/b] this war, they should look at their existing treaties, because now the one with NpO and the one with VE are in conflict. [/quote] No, your declaration of war on the New Polar Order made those treaties conflicting. Perhaps if you actually cared about Ragnarok you would have discussed the issue in depth, rather than the "LOLWAR" approach you have chosen to take. Not all casus bellis must turn to war and you know that well. Though, we can't all be good allies and I recognize VE is one of those alliances that are just incapable of such a travesty. To each his own. Edited January 20, 2011 by youwish959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Godspeed to PC. Edited January 20, 2011 by Crymson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Z Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1295546513' post='2586703'] As someone who's been close to SF for almost my entire time in CN I want to believe that this is not the case. While I admittedly have no information on the matter besides what has transpired on the OWF, the evidence I'm seeing unfortunately suggests that what Yukon said is true. I'm sad now. GOD, you're officially not invited to my birthday party. Please prove me wrong so I can re-invite you. [/quote] As stated before to Hoo, he is unfortunately quite wrong about the facts and that I suggest he reconsult Taut for a clearer picture of the events. Saying otherwise before getting a full picture of the events that have taken place out of the view of the public eye is just asking to look stupid in a few day's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickyard Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 PC is probably think "Damn, we were hoping for a challenge. Too bad I guess.". o/ PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 The amount of whining in this thread coming from VE/GOONS/Umbrella is amazing and make me so happy that I wanna dance, the complaining just shows that Pandora Box only applaud alliances who honor treaties if said alliance is in their side and honor treaties with alliances not in their side is the wrong thing to do. [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295548112' post='2586756'] This is particularly hilarious given that [i]RoK gave NpO a free pass when they declared on an ally[/i] back in Bipolar, except that time, it was without a CB at all. There is an argument that can be made that you should always follow the letter of an MDP without considering the circumstances, but RoK have already shown that they don't think that way – when it's Polar causing the confusion, anyway. Apparently the rest of us just don't match up to them. Goodbye, Ragnarok. [/quote] See my sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrovich4 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Well doen SF for manipulating this war - a genuinely excellent plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Sir Dingly Dang' timestamp='1295548636' post='2586779'] Actually, spying on VE is what made the treaties conflicting ; regardless, as soon as war broke out, RoK was in a tough position because of those treaties, which is what sucks. Once there was a CB, RoK was put in the middle of two allies. Had NpO declared on VE, RoK would have been mandated to defend VE. When VE attacks NpO, they are mandated to defend NpO. There only other choice is to ignore/drop a treaty, which isn't any better. And as my original post said, [b]after[/b] this war, they should look at their existing treaties, because now the one with NpO and the one with VE are in conflict. [/quote] This is the second time VE has put RoK in this situation recently. To bad VE wasn't the better alliance and stood down when it was agressively attacked via spying that caused no harm (according to VE that is) and spared RoK the horrible situation. Of course VE really didn't mind when it agressively attacked another of RoKs allies not long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixoux Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Petrovich4' timestamp='1295550337' post='2586816'] Well doen SF for manipulating this war - a genuinely excellent plan. [/quote] No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizenkane Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1295550450' post='2586826'] This is the second time VE has put RoK in this situation recently. To bad VE wasn't the better alliance and stood down when it was agressively attacked via spying that caused no harm (according to VE that is) and spared RoK the horrible situation. Of course VE really didn't mind when it agressively attacked another of RoKs allies not long ago. [/quote] am I really seeing \m/ taking the moral high ground here? Seriously? Like really? Get down off the high horse RoK have put you on because you're not special. PS \m/ wernt exactly the most diploamtic in that incident either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1295550774' post='2586839'] am I really seeing \m/ taking the moral high ground here? Seriously? Like really? Get down off the high horse RoK have put you on because you're not special. PS \m/ wernt exactly the most diploamtic in that incident either [/quote] That's "\m/oral high ground" to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295548112' post='2586756'] This is particularly hilarious given that [i]RoK gave NpO a free pass when they declared on an ally[/i] back in Bipolar, except that time, it was without a CB at all. There is an argument that can be made that you should always follow the letter of an MDP without considering the circumstances, but RoK have already shown that they don't think that way – when it's Polar causing the confusion, anyway. Apparently the rest of us just don't match up to them. Goodbye, Ragnarok. [/quote] I guess I don't see what your saying there. If I recall correctly rok fought on the opposite side of polar's (initial) side of the bipolar war. This parallels with the current war in that VE is in the position of polar, a rok ally attacking another rok ally, and polar in the position of \m/. If by give a free pass, you mean rok didn't cancel their treaty with polar, to my knowledge they haven't done so with VE yet. Moreover they did not attack VE, they in fact remained neutral in the conflict between Polar and VE itself, and instead focused themselves on one of the other alliances (not allied to them) engaging polar. They did the same thing with bipolar when they fought on the TOP-CnG side of the war rather than against polar itself. Maybe your allusion goes deeper than that, but from what I can see Rok seems to have been consistent. Edited January 20, 2011 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Good luck and enjoy the war, its good to see you honoring your treaty even when facing a tough battle. o/ RoK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I was under the impression that RoK stayed out of Bipolar, and, well, they engaged some fringe alliances so I guess that's not technically true, but they certainly made much more of an effort to do so than they seem to be willing to do for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Much respect, Ragnarok. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladisvok Destino Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295551803' post='2586902'] I was under the impression that RoK stayed out of Bipolar, and, well, they engaged some fringe alliances so I guess that's not technically true, but they certainly made much more of an effort to do so than they seem to be willing to do for us. [/quote] In BiPolar, NpO DoW'd \m/, but nobody else DoW'd \m/. In this war, VE DoW'd NpO, PC/FOK/iFok/Misfits also DoW'd NpO, Rok hits one of those. For your comparison to be accurate, other alliances would have had to hit \m/ and Rok to ignore that (which did not happen.) Edited January 20, 2011 by Vladisvok Destino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1295541933' post='2586536'] Well, your argument and its credibility is missing one thing. Why would Rok do this? Why would they go against the rest of SF, why would they go against VE, why would they choose to be on the opposite side of Pandora's Box when they didn't have to be? What did they have to gain by choosing what they did? You act as if they made this decision out of [i]pleasure[/i] instead out of necessity, honor, and loyalty, and frankly, that doesn't make any sense. [/quote] I didn't say they did it cause they [i]liked[/i] it. I'm saying it [i]looks[/i] like they did it because they felt there'd be backlash, evidenced by Hoo leaving. I think they definately did it out of honor and loyalty, just not to the side that has stood by them for years. They sided with the people that were clearly MORE in the wrong (cause honestly VE looks a little dirty here), maybe to avoid a little bad PR, maybe because ego's flared, etc. I don't know why they did it any more than the next person. But they're gonna be fighting the friends of the balance of their allies. I think it was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1295552495' post='2586921'] They sided with the people that were clearly MORE in the wrong (cause honestly VE looks a little dirty here), maybe to avoid a little bad PR, maybe because ego's flared, etc. I don't know why they did it any more than the next person. But they're gonna be fighting the friends of the balance of their allies. I think it was a mistake. [/quote] The only obviously dirty hands here are Lennox's. And everything else just paints a bad picture around Impero's involvement. The only thing Polar is at fault for is having a 2nd in command who spoke with a friend and didn't take his joke serious till it was too late (the very next morning). Edited January 20, 2011 by Rayvon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295548552' post='2586775'] Who is the new (or returning old) leader you refer too? ((OOC; you may have noticed that's a reroll, look at nation age. Not only does VE specifically not engage in EZI, but from an RP standpoint, and this [i]is[/i] an IC forum, that is not the same person. If you wish to continue making an issue of his membership in VE I humbly suggest we take that discussion to open world RP.)) [/quote] You are wrong: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93903 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='brickyard' timestamp='1295549764' post='2586805'] PC is probably think "Damn, we were hoping for a challenge. Too bad I guess.". o/ PC [/quote]It's like you're a psychic or something. Probably something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) See here's the thing, this would not have worked in the other direction. I know this from experience. NpO canceled on us in Bipolar for declaring war on TFD in defense of Umbrella. Unless NpO has radically changed their standards (I doubt that) you can't count on them to understand you doing this for somebody outside their side. The clearest thing in this case would have been to stay neutral, there is a long history of alliances staying out of conflicts completely because the instigators were their allies, regardless of who countered them. Indeed, that's what NpO expected of us in Bipolar. What you're doing here is fairly unprecedented. There is a legal defense to be made for it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Edited January 20, 2011 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295551803' post='2586902'] I was under the impression that RoK stayed out of Bipolar, and, well, they engaged some fringe alliances so I guess that's not technically true, but they certainly made much more of an effort to do so than they seem to be willing to do for us. [/quote] We were allowed to mediate in the Bipolar war. We didn't even get a chance to blink before you DoW'd Polaris, but I'm starting to think that was the intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1295553689' post='2586973'] See here's the thing, this would not have worked in the other direction. I know this from experience. NpO canceled on us in Bipolar for declaring war on TFD in defense of Umbrella. Unless NpO has radically changed their standards (I doubt that) you can't count on them to understand you doing this for somebody outside their side. The clearest thing in this case would have been to stayed neutral, there is a long history of alliances staying out of conflicts completely because the instigators were their allies, regardless of who countered them. Indeed, that's what NpO expected of us in Bipolar. What you're doing here is fairly unprecedented. There is a legal defense to be made for it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. [/quote] Leader of GOONS e-lawyerin itt. Bookmarked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295553840' post='2586975'] Leader of GOONS e-lawyerin itt. Bookmarked. [/quote] Hardly, just pointing out a double standard. Something I thought you had much appreciation for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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