Ragnarok declaration of war

[Weezy]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1295558076' post='2587130']
I'm well aware (and was without it having been pointed out).

I don't have much to say about the rest of your post given that I am not internally involved in SF affairs. I will point out though, again, that I never said or implied that GOD entered on VE's behalf (just that they're MADPed).

C'mon guys, please read.

edit: done with edits
[/quote]


[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1295558157' post='2587134']
We did tell them, actually, but this post along with others explaining the same thing will continue to be overlooked in the meantime.
[/quote]

As I said, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to keep up here. I can only go by what I read.. and well, we all not theres some incorrect information being passed around on both ends.

also obligatory GOONS somehow, someway this has to be your fault... it just has too.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295558673' post='2587150']
And an MDoAP too.
[/quote]

Oh? Balkan, BELOW and ???

[wickedj]

Well RoK honors a treaty and the VE butthurt cranks up to 20. Cant you guys just fight your little manufactured war and then move on? 'cus all i see is this

[IMG]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b263/wickedj8/avatars/408BT.gif[/IMG]

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1295558612' post='2587146']
So you'd rather everyone in SF ignore all their treaties to PB just so RoK can defend an ally who encouraged a spy to spy on..RoK's other ally?
[/quote]


RoK's ally was attacked, PB was not. Yeah, I know people shout that this is a defensive war but that is BS. Proclaiming that a war is defensive after you declare is just a cheap way to keep people out and gives alliances an easy out. It is has been the most frequently used way to shirk responsibilities for years now. This war is an aggressive war started by VE. I don't personally care about the CB as I think they are overrated anyway. If you feel someone wronged you, then attack them if you feel it is war worthy. I also don't care if VE used diplomacy or not as diplomacy is optional. I do care about what transpired afterwards and the behavior of several alliances, RoK included.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1295556934' post='2587091']
I find it extremely difficult to believe that RoK didn’t anticipate GOD backing their MDAP partner (VE) and their side, and by extension find it difficult to believe that RoK didn't anticipate backing NpO would result in fighting opposite fellow SuperFriends (albeit on different fronts). So although I can empathize with the tough position RoK was and is in, I nonetheless find their entrance in this war on Polar’s behalf in poor harm.
[/quote]

Oh, so it's cool for GOD to pick an ally over their bloc, but it's not cool for RoK to pick an ally over the same bloc. Gotcha. I find [i]that[/i] to be in poor harm (whatever that means).

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295558673' post='2587150']
This is frankly one of the things that upset me. When Rok wants something VE has their back, we rolled in the six million dollar war on literally minutes notice, no questions asked. They needed us we were there.

But when VE is the one asking instead of giving suddenly Rok is joining the other side of the war.



And an MDoAP too.
[/quote]


You didn't have a treaty with the NSO. Can you [b]please[/b] use something applicable? Otherwise you are just clogging this thread with inane posts and irrelevant arguments.

I actually like VE and I am not even mad at your alliance in the slightest. I am however disappointed in some of your commentary since RoK declared.

[hertugen]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1295557812' post='2587119']
No, they don't. They have two.
[/quote]
That does not change the fact that RoK told SF they would honor our treaty, now does it?

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1295539609' post='2586451']
Been neutral?

Doesn't seem too difficult to me!


[/quote]
What did you think would happen if you attacked their allies?

[Aurion]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1295558891' post='2587158']
Oh? Balkan, BELOW and ???
[/quote]

The old Maroon Entente treaty.

[GuMMyWoRm]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1295558133' post='2587133']
In any case, winning/losing a war shouldn't determine whether you enter it. But not all alliances subscribe to that theory I guess.
[/quote]

Sadly this is true. Alot of spineless alliances only make treaties to enact them when they know they will win the war.

When there's a chance of defeat, they simply ignore them. This game has gotten borderline retarded with people refusing to honor treaties due to being too afraid to lose precious pixels.

The new cooler CN believes infra > friends and treaties. Sad really

(certain purple and red alliances come to mind)

Edited January 20, 2011 by GuMMyWoRm

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295558930' post='2587160']
RoK's ally was attacked, PB was not. Yeah, I know people shout that this is a defensive war but that is BS. Proclaiming that a war is defensive after you declare is just a cheap way to keep people out and gives alliances an easy out. It is has been the most frequently used way to shirk responsibilities for years now. This war is an aggressive war started by VE. I don't personally care about the CB as I think they are overrated anyway. If you feel someone wronged you, then attack them if you feel it is war worthy. I also don't care if VE used diplomacy or not as diplomacy is optional. I do care about what transpired afterwards and the behavior of several alliances, RoK included.
[/quote]

I'm sorry that SF isn't blindly disregarding all their other treaties solely for RoK, and instead chose the least painful option to alleviate all parties, including speaking with Taut to get his opinion on the matter. RoK isn't the only one in a crappy situation, you know.

[Joe Izuzu]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295504670' post='2585631']
Their word was a pledge to stay neutral since they had conflicting treaties. A pledge you just saw them break.
[/quote]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1295505729' post='2585703']
I don't ever remember pledging to stay neutral.
[/quote]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295506132' post='2585735']
Hate us on all you want, but you can't possible believe we were stupid enough to declare on an allies treaty partner without clearing it when them first?

RoK was ok with this, then changed their mind after we rolled. They ....

Holy !@#$. It just hit me. Rok just quite literally pulled the same stunt on us that Polar did to TOP and IRON.
[/quote]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1295508046' post='2585823']
He's referring to the fact that RoK okay'd the war in the same way that NpO okay'd the attack on CnG. wow you're dense.
[/quote]

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1295528787' post='2586202']
...This bit isn't true: "VE told RoK they will hit NpO, RoK gives the OK."...[/quote]


I love the disinformation that was VE and Co. attempted to spread here by stating the RoK gave them a green light to attack NpO. It is clear from Tautology's post, Joe Stupid's post, and this [u][b][url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97393&view=findpost&p=2587005"]post[/url][/b][/u] by Rampage3, that RoK NEVER gave a green light to VE. It is also equally clear that VE didn't care about obtaining clearance from RoK and simply rolled on NpO as quickly as they possibly could. That kind of behavior doesn't demonstrate respect for a treaty partner that is going to be put into an enormously difficult position. In fact, it demonstrates a complete and total disregard for the interests of that treaty partner. For VE to moan about RoK's choice in honoring the treaty with Polar just illustrates the all encompassing enormity of VE's continuing hypocrisy throughout this entire episode. If the truth won't serve, then just lie and try to smear the reputation of the treaty partner you just screwed over. Right, VE?

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295558930' post='2587160']
RoK's ally was attacked, PB was not. Yeah, I know people shout that this is a defensive war but that is BS. Proclaiming that a war is defensive after you declare is just a cheap way to keep people out and gives alliances an easy out. It is has been the most frequently used way to shirk responsibilities for years now. This war is an aggressive war started by VE. I don't personally care about the CB as I think they are overrated anyway. If you feel someone wronged you, then attack them if you feel it is war worthy. I also don't care if VE used diplomacy or not as diplomacy is optional. I do care about what transpired afterwards and the behavior of several alliances, RoK included.
[/quote]

So you don't care when your ally spies on your other ally, but will defend them anyway? Great to know.

I understand that you want to defend NpO, though obviously I wonder why you're still allied to them at times, but to proceed to just keep complaining about GOD and SF all day when all they're doing is honoring their treaties as well is just blatant hypocrisy and I expect from you to be honest.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295559002' post='2587164']
Oh, so it's cool for GOD to pick an ally over their bloc, but it's not cool for RoK to pick an ally over the same bloc. Gotcha. I find [i]that[/i] to be in poor harm (whatever that means).
[/quote]

When did we pick an ally over a bloc?

[Rayvon]

[quote name='hertugen' timestamp='1295559059' post='2587169']
That does not change the fact that RoK told SF they would honor our treaty, now does it?
[/quote]
Just a few short weeks ago ATWM was one of our diplo staff, I was just pointing it out to him to be caddy - hence the formatting of my response to him to be seperated from the remainder of the discussion. He's a good kid, wasn't anything beyond ribbing.


[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1295559095' post='2587172']
The old Maroon Entente treaty.
[/quote]

Ah yes, I forgot all about that

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295559052' post='2587168']
You didn't have a treaty with the NSO. Can you [b]please[/b] use something applicable? Otherwise you are just clogging this thread with inane posts and irrelevant arguments.

I actually like VE and I am not even mad at your alliance in the slightest. I am however disappointed in some of your commentary since RoK declared.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, I guess I never spelled it out but I thought it was clearer.

I do see it as applicable. After years, years of Rok getting what it wants from VE, VE gets repaid by Rok joining the other side in a war. Its clear the choice Rok made though, they value their relationship with an alliance that's spent years opposing them more than an alliance that has spent years supporting them. I don't begrudge them that choice, but they are crazy if they think its done them any favors in terms of how we view our relationship with them.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1295559254' post='2587179']
So you don't care when your ally spies on your other ally, but will defend them anyway? Great to know.

I understand that you want to defend NpO, though obviously I wonder why you're still allied to them at times, but to proceed to just keep complaining about GOD and SF all day when all they're doing is honoring their treaties as well is just blatant hypocrisy and I expect from you to be honest.
[/quote]


I care that they spied (if you can even call it that), but it doesn't mean you don't defend them. Treaties are signed to be honored, not so you can drop them when it is convenient or when they make a mistake. Based on what you and others are saying, treaties aren't really all that important and have no risk attached. I mean, you can just drop them if they cause trouble or refuse to help them when they are attacked anyway ... right?

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1295556934' post='2587091']
As a result of an overwhelming number of replies to my comments in this thread (which I’m flattered by, really), I will take a moment here to more fully elaborate on my thoughts (and in a far more mature, intelligent manner than ChairmanHal while I’m at it).[/quote]

You crashed on launch. Actually that's unfair, since clearly you don't have the (brain)power to launch.

[quote]I understand fully the circumstances here, pertaining specifically to NpO’s request to RoK and the latter’s resultant activation of their MDoAP. RoK followed the [i]letter[/i] of their treaty with Polar. My point has been that this has seemingly been at the expense of following the [i]spirit[/i] of their SuperFriends treaty (where, MADPed, you ride as one). I find it extremely difficult to believe that RoK didn’t anticipate GOD backing their MDAP partner (VE) and their side, and by extension find it difficult to believe that RoK didn't anticipate backing NpO would result in fighting opposite fellow SuperFriends (albeit on different fronts). So although I can empathize with the tough position RoK was and is in, I nonetheless find their entrance in this war on Polar’s behalf in poor harm.
[/quote]

SuperFriends has been slowly dying as a bloc for some time, with all due respect to its continuing supporters. Fark's departure, really the anchor of the bloc, sealed its fate.

It is far more plausible that factions developed within SF long before this war and that there was disagreement over how to proceed once the war started to blossom. Rok had a request for assistance from a MDoAP partner sitting on its desk. I can see Xiph deciding to break ranks and take R&R with him if for no other reason but he hates NpO. Indeed, both GOD and R&R have been close to PB and "that side of the treaty web" for some time now and VE's drift into PB would certainly have estranged it from Rok. I can also see why RIA and CSN would watch the proceedings and be generally unhappy with everyone.

Given that background, Rok's decision to honor the MDoAP makes perfect sense. I fully expect an announcement that the SF bloc is breaking up when this war ends, if not sooner.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1295559140' post='2587175']
It is also equally clear that VE didn't care about obtaining clearance from RoK and simply rolled on NpO as quickly as they possibly could. That kind of behavior doesn't demonstrate respect for a treaty partner that is going to be put into an enormously difficult position. In fact, it demonstrates a complete and total disregard for the interests of that treaty partner.[/quote]

I offer you citation

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97369&view=findpost&p=2586588

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1295559566' post='2587186']
I care that they spied (if you can even call it that), but it doesn't mean you don't defend them. Treaties are signed to be honored, not so you can drop them when it is convenient or when they make a mistake. Based on what you and others are saying, treaties aren't really all that important and have no risk attached. I mean, you can just drop them if they cause trouble or refuse to help them when they are attacked anyway ... right?
[/quote]

So if VE is attacked, I assume RoK will help defend them?

Also, you still haven't defended your hypocrisy at all regarding the rest of SF. Which is really the main thing that is annoying me a bit, seeing as how you're even now clamoring about honoring treaties.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1295559710' post='2587189']
You crashed on launch. Actually that's unfair, since clearly you don't have the (brain)power to launch.



SuperFriends has been slowly dying as a bloc for some time, with all due respect to its continuing supporters. Fark's departure, really the anchor of the bloc, sealed its fate.

It is far more plausible that factions developed within SF long before this war and that there was disagreement over how to proceed once the war started to blossom. Rok had a request for assistance from a MDoAP partner sitting on its desk. I can see Xiph deciding to break ranks and take R&R with him if for no other reason but he hates NpO. Indeed, both GOD and R&R have been close to PB and "that side of the treaty web" for some time now and VE's drift into PB would certainly have estranged it from Rok. I can also see why RIA and CSN would watch the proceedings and be generally unhappy with everyone.

Given that background, Rok's decision to honor the MDoAP makes perfect sense. I fully expect an announcement that the SF bloc is breaking up when this war ends, if not sooner.
[/quote]

Your post has so many things wrong with it, i don't even know where to begin. I know you're used it it, being in the ex-hegemony and whatnot, but its actually possible to have a bloc without a bloc leader. Xiph doesn't hate NpO, he's been doing them favors for months to stop them from being rolled. GOD hasn't been close to PB, we just cut our GOONS treaty a couple weeks ago in a spectacularly public fashion. YOU KNOW THIS. You were calling Xiph a stubborn hothead in the thread. Rok told us that they would be assisting NpO, and we understood. Are we happy about it? Not particularly. I like Rok a lot and I would have gone neutral had I been in their positions.But we're not of side mind and body, we're friends. Lastly, I'll be you 100 tech that SF won't die after this.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Emperor Whimsical

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295559562' post='2587185']
I'm sorry, I guess I never spelled it out but I thought it was clearer.

I do see it as applicable. After years, years of Rok getting what it wants from VE, VE gets repaid by Rok joining the other side in a war. Its clear the choice Rok made though, they value their relationship with an alliance that's spent years opposing them more than an alliance that has spent years supporting them. I don't begrudge them that choice, but they are crazy if they think its done them any favors in terms of how we view our relationship with them.
[/quote]


And it is truly awesome that you entered wars whenever you were needed, but RoK never attacked your allies and expected you stay out. What you are saying is that since RoK and VE have fought together, it makes ignoring their other treaty obligations justifiable. It doesn't work that way. It isn't like you gained some sort of karmic currency that you get to cash in down the road by doing those deeds. You don't get to say "Well, we've fought together so you must now look the other way while we bring in friends** and destroy your ally ..."


** It is important to note that I have no issue with VE bringing in friends. It is a valid tactic.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1295558673' post='2587150']
This is frankly one of the things that upset me. When Rok wants something VE has their back, we rolled in the six million dollar war on literally minutes notice, no questions asked. They needed us we were there.

But when VE is the one asking instead of giving suddenly Rok is joining the other side of the war.



And an MDoAP too.
[/quote]'

Because we were in such sore need of the Viridian War Machine in the NSO war.

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1295559743' post='2587191']
So if VE is attacked, I assume RoK will help defend them?
[/quote]

How would Hoo know seeing as he isn't a member of RoK?

[KCToker]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1295559710' post='2587189']
You crashed on launch. Actually that's unfair, since clearly you don't have the (brain)power to launch.



SuperFriends has been slowly dying as a bloc for some time, with all due respect to its continuing supporters. Fark's departure, really the anchor of the bloc, sealed its fate.

It is far more plausible that factions developed within SF long before this war and that there was disagreement over how to proceed once the war started to blossom. Rok had a request for assistance from a MDoAP partner sitting on its desk. I can see Xiph deciding to break ranks and take R&R with him if for no other reason but he hates NpO. Indeed, both GOD and R&R have been close to PB and "that side of the treaty web" for some time now and VE's drift into PB would certainly have estranged it from Rok. I can also see why RIA and CSN would watch the proceedings and be generally unhappy with everyone.

Given that background, Rok's decision to honor the MDoAP makes perfect sense. I fully expect an announcement that the SF bloc is breaking up when this war ends, if not sooner.
[/quote]
Just stop posting. Please. Drugs and doing auditions for [i]Jackass[/i] are better for my braincells than the stuff you come up with.