Joint Poison Clan - iFOK Announcement

[bosoxmaniac4]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1293247231' post='2553249']
hahahaha, you do realize that PC/iFOK agreed to this (not sure who actually proposed the idea). so how about stop blaming one side for it being a curbstomp when PC/iFOK could have stopped it at anytime from being a curbstomp.
[/quote]

sooooooo true, or least they could have attempted to stop it

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1293247410' post='2553254']
This is what I don't get. All NEW had to do was apologize and pay minor reps. They don't need anyone's help, they just need to help themselves.
[/quote]
I don't see the point in having allies if you have to submit to every demand the other side has or else none of your allies will support you. Having strong allies should do so you don't have to cave into every demand of a potential enemy, if you're going to do that you don't need allies. If your allies are going to tell you to just surrender before the fight begin, they seem more like allies of the one demanding the reps and apology.

[Sephiroth]

edit: oops, double post.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Methrage

[Monster]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1293247924' post='2553258']
I don't see the point in having allies if you have to submit to every demand the other side has or else none of your allies will support you. Having strong allies should do so you don't have to cave into every demand of a potential enemy, if you're going to do that you don't need allies. If your allies are going to tell you to just surrender before the fight begin, they seem more like allies of the one demanding the reps and apology.
[/quote]

Perhaps they are allies of both?! Why would anyone defend the indefensible?

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1293247998' post='2553261']
Perhaps they are allies of both?! Why would anyone defend the indefensible?
[/quote]
If they have a treaty obligation that was agreed to it makes sense if they want to keep any credibility.

[Artigo]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1293235581' post='2553087']
So if an entire 300 man alliance mass joined the conflict but all of them changed their AA to FARK then that's fine? I don't think so, that's just semantics and it's silly.
[/quote]

How is that semantics? If 300 people are willing to leave their alliance a join Fark then that is a merger. I see no issue with people resigning from their alliance and joining another if using proper channels. TexWheeler joined us during the Grämlin war and remained with us for several months after the war had been concluded, would you call him an 'illegal combatant' during the war, but then a member afterward?

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1293247231' post='2553249']
hahahaha, you do realize that PC/iFOK agreed to this (not sure who actually proposed the idea). so how about stop blaming one side for it being a curbstomp when PC/iFOK could have stopped it at anytime from being a curbstomp.
[/quote]

And all they would have had to do was something more than....well....nothing.

Best. Allies. Ever.

[Sandwich Controversy]

There is absolutely no reason why the volunteers should be treated any differently from any other NEW member. Alliance applications don't close down in wartime, after all. Unless we want to prosecute everybody who's joined an alliance during a war as criminals?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1293251673' post='2553295']
There is absolutely no reason why the volunteers should be treated any differently from any other NEW member. Alliance applications don't close down in wartime, after all. Unless we want to prosecute everybody who's joined an alliance during a war as criminals?
[/quote]
^^^^ This This This!

Pretty damn ridiculous bagging on people who leave their alliance to fight for another one when the feel it is the right thing to do. It has been going on since the first Great War for Admins sake.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1293247410' post='2553254']
This is what I don't get. All NEW had to do was apologize and pay minor reps. They don't need anyone's help, they just need to help themselves.
[/quote]

Point of clarification, they didn't have to pay reps. They only had to apologize and they wouldn't.

And if somebody wants to join an alliance mid-war to help the cause, there should be nothing wrong with it. They are taking just as many hits as anybody else on that AA, and if they believe strongly enough in the cause, who are we to tell them no?

[Emphix]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1293231537' post='2552978']
Trying to enforce who can join or leave an uninvolved alliance would really take us all a step back.
[/quote]

nobody's enforcing anything.

Is it that hard to ask an alliance's policy on something? if they don't have any policy about it, that's fine too.

[KingEd]

[quote name='fant0m' timestamp='1293219581' post='2552784']
[b]We are honourary members of NEW. We are NEW.[/b]

I still find it amusing people call us "rogues" and even "bandwagoners" considering it is us who is fighting a heavily defensive war for our friends. Not to mention there are nations doing the exact same thing as us on Fark's AA, only they are joining the winning side. I guess it's alright for them though.
[/quote]

There's no problem with that at all; the problem here lies in the fact that we are trying to bring this conflict to a quick end and you are simply postponing that inevitable end.

[quote name='TwistedRebelDB47' timestamp='1293223020' post='2552836']

[b]So call us rogues, if you are scared, but don’t expect for either party, NEW or friends, to part ways before each has fair and respectable terms. [/b]

Poison Clan or former Poison Clan nations involved: 13.
[/quote]

Is asking for a well deserved apology unfair? Is TPE, INT, Fark tyranical for merely asking NEW to give an apology?

I'm sorry but your simply giving your allies the wrong impression in aiding them on a fight which they brought upon themselves; however, I hope that you have all made it explicitly clear that while you have come to their aid that you don't support nor condone the actions that led to this entire mess.

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1293228857' post='2552951']
We are not "rogues" we are people who were friends with NEW and who decided join them because they needed help. Every nation who joined NEW is in it on their own accord and decided for themselves if they wanted to join NEW. There is no conspiracy here or plan from any PB alliance to bring nations over to NEW.
[/quote]

They don't need help - they need to admit that what they did was wrong and you, as their allies, should help them reach the same conclusion the entire OWF reached from the very get-go.

[b]I DARE SOMEONE TO HAVE THE AUDACITY TO TELL US THAT ASKING NEW TO GIVE AN APOLOGY IS ASKING TOO MUCH. BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY NOT.[/b]

Edited December 25, 2010 by KingEd

[Dogs of War]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1293253697' post='2553317']
[b]I DARE SOMEONE TO HAVE THE AUDACITY TO TELL US THAT ASKING NEW TO GIVE AN APOLOGY IS ASKING TOO MUCH. BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY NOT.[/b]
[/quote]

I think you owe them an apology for not specifically announcing your protection of a dead alliance.
How's them apples.

[KingEd]

[quote name='Dogs of War' timestamp='1293253984' post='2553324']
I think you owe them an apology for not specifically announcing your protection of a dead alliance.
How's them apples.
[/quote]

01[11:34] <KingEd[TPE]> Sangar, did "NEW Govt" read the disbandment thread?
[11:35] <sangar[NEW]> yes

Whether they consider our obvious statements official is a crap excuse, I'm sorry.

[Dogs of War]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1293254088' post='2553327']
01[11:34] <KingEd[TPE]> Sangar, did "NEW Govt" read the disbandment thread?
[11:35] <sangar[NEW]> yes

Whether they consider our obvious statements official is a crap excuse, I'm sorry.
[/quote]
BTW, I was just taking you up on your dare.

[KingEd]

[quote name='Dogs of War' timestamp='1293254183' post='2553328']
BTW, I was just taking you up on your dare.
[/quote]





Like I said, I understand you guys are honoring your personal friendship - same as we are; however, I hope that you do make it clear to NEW that they are in the wrong.

I might go as far as to say that they know it - their ego is just in the way.

[Emphix]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1293254283' post='2553330']




Like I said, I understand you guys are honoring your personal friendship - same as we are; however, I hope that you do make it clear to NEW that they are in the wrong.

I might go as far as to say that they know it - their ego is just in the way.
[/quote]

This is very true. Those citing friendship and all is fine, no problems about that.

Though on the other hand, we also have a bunch of people that never really care about NEW in the first place, and just want this war to escalate to be a world war, pretending to care about NEW just to satisfy that personal goal, these are the sad ones.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1293228857' post='2552951']
We are not "rogues" we are people who were friends with NEW and who decided join them because they needed help. Every nation who joined NEW is in it on their own accord and decided for themselves if they wanted to join NEW. There is no conspiracy here or plan from any PB alliance to bring nations over to NEW.
[/quote]

You are very silly people taking foolish actions to prolong and make more complex a war that should have been short and uncomplicated. NEW $%&@ed up, big time, that's why they got hit in the first place and their allies stood back.

By pulling antics like this you merely contribute to the problem, and encourage NEW or those like them to do more stupid !@#$ in the future because they think they'll get bailed out no matter what.

I'm all for supporting ones allies, but the flip side of that is, if somebody $%&@s up hard enough, that it takes a smack upside the head to knock some sense into em, then they earned the smack down coming their way.

[merdesa]

[quote name='Emphix' timestamp='1293254877' post='2553334']
This is very true. Those citing friendship and all is fine, no problems about that.

Though on the other hand, we also have a bunch of people that never really care about NEW in the first place, and just want this war to escalate to be a world war, pretending to care about NEW just to satisfy that personal goal, these are the sad ones.
[/quote]


Or there are the ones that try to end it for not NEW but their own sake.

[Emphix]

[quote name='merdesa' timestamp='1293255740' post='2553343']
Or there are the ones that try to end it for not NEW but their own sake.
[/quote]

are you saying that speedy resolution is not in the best interest of NEW and WFF?

[SirDog]

Am I to understand that those nations who leave their alliance and fight for NEW, have actually applied and are NEW members, therefore never to return to their alliance of origin?

And if not, if they are permitted to return to their respective allainces then I take it that their government endorses their actions, thus technically having assisted NEW in the war. And then their is the question of reps. If NEW incurs reps then will those nations be paying reps also or attempt to rejoin their alliances to avoid reps?

[merdesa]

[quote name='Emphix' timestamp='1293256335' post='2553350']
are you saying that speedy resolution is not in the best interest of NEW and WFF?
[/quote]

Oh no that's not what I meant; I think 3rd parties getting involved for their own interests as opposed to NEW's seems a bit underhanded. They'd not be getting peace for NEW, but themselves.

[Destroyer58]

No doubtly these members will be going back to there original alliances after the war. If this is so then these Alliances would agree to there actions leaving there goverments responsible for every and all actions. Don't need a DoW to see what's going on here.

[mhawk]

[quote name='merdesa' timestamp='1293256837' post='2553356']
Oh no that's not what I meant; I think 3rd parties getting involved for their own interests as opposed to NEW's seems a bit underhanded. They'd not be getting peace for NEW, but themselves.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, what would the proper course of action for a third party not at war be that was also friends with NEW? Do nothing?

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Destroyer58' timestamp='1293257182' post='2553361']
No doubtly these members will be going back to there original alliances after the war. If this is so then these Alliances would agree to there actions leaving there goverments responsible for every and all actions. Don't need a DoW to see what's going on here.
[/quote]
Some might be going back to PC, others won't. They've already taken the step necessary to leave PC and are under no obligations to rejoin, even if some of them might choose to do that after the war is over. Some of them might try founding new alliances or join other alliances, but I've seen nothing to make me believe they are still working under PC and are all planning on rejoining after the war.