What's Going on Here...

[mrcalkin]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289838963' post='2513625']
Problem I have with your mentality is that you are overly anal about not suffering any critique (as obvious from your post) and being the "good guy" publicly. Always and forever.

There has to be dichotomy between those that are part of the perceived dominant power structure, and those not. If you are seen as on top, yeah, you shall always suffer verbal attacks and there shall be tensions leveled at you. If that is not the case, as if those on the bottom lack ambitions, well, as Ivan beautifully did it you initiate the dichotomy from the top position. (OOC: Why? 'Coz its a !@#$@#$ game and not facebook to make friends and animosities and driving ambitions are fun, not sitting on your ass trying to be "good guys" and playing good PR all day long,...wth).

We wear our constant critiques as a badge of honor. The new top guys squirm like little girls at the mere sight of it, or spam pages with supposedly sarcastic comments about themselves as a knee jerk reaction that shows just how anal they are if they suffer any bad PR.

As you said, you are relatively new around here. You don't know how it went down before and unfortunately you are a part of the new formed mentality that just, lacks. Community changed its all a bit too serious, and God forbid if you ever suffer any perceived "bad PR".

With that being said, what is done is done. Ambition-less, static, character-less community is what it is and isn't going to change.
[/quote]

And you guys fill up pages about how tough and hard and stalwart you all would like to think you are. You are like the kid who puts his finger behind his arm to make his muscles look bigger while they flex. The only ones you guys end up impressing with these long posts about how you think everyone should go about doing things is your own little brood of yes-men.

I also seem to recall a time when you couldn't go five minutes without someone in the NPO complaining about the constant "NPO is ruining the game" crap that used to clog these boards up. I wouldn't really call that "wearing our constant critiques with a badge of honor" but whatever fits with your version of reality.

[Branimir]

I seem to have struck a nerve.

[mrcalkin]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289845641' post='2513674']
I seem to have struck a nerve.
[/quote]

It seems to be a somewhat common theme amongst your alliance and a couple of others to lament the fact that people aren't doing things the old way anymore, and I see it as being a bit hypocritical considering every time someone from the NPO's of this world get nostalgic they decide to ignore how things actually happened. It's not like its limited to just yourself though, seeing the past through rose-tinted glasses is something most here (and myself) are guilty of.

[Branimir]

I got what you are saying the first time. While we could go back and forth, it wouldn't be really constructive. And honestly, I don't care. I said what I wanted in my quasi rant on this page, have nothing to add or remove, and you said what was on your mind. Thats fine.

[Jens of the desert]

Maybe it's just me, but maybe there's an age thing involved. Generally older people are attracted to and stick with this game. As we know, as old people get older, they don't change, but young people change their views drastically during their period of maturing. Maybe we need younger govs to spice things up a little.

[Fernando12]

I don't know how NPO and it's allies were. I got here in June 09 and didn't get into following the OWF until like July. This was well into the war and the end of NPO as it was back then.

Truth is I see myself as arrogant. But I have no power.
I have gotten to dislike MK/GOONS/Others why? Because they are arrogant and have power [size="1"](and other stuffs).[/size]

I forget if it was this thread or elsewhere. Someone said that if they take action they are called out and if they just sit back and not do anything with their power then they are called out. It's true. The powers that be shouldn't be expected to be belligerent just to make things exciting. Creating false drama is stupid. Why should they do anything when they don't need to in order to maintain their current power. They could roll every alliance they don't like and use that as the CB. Is that what everyone wants? Is that what the powers want to do? If it's something they truly want then they should do it, but if it's just to entertain the rest of us then it's stupid.

Be ready for this to last a good 2-3 years. Til then, buckle up and build up nations and relations to form a counter. Threads every other week calling people out to do something are pointless. Suicide runs are pointless.

[supercoolyellow]

I for one think that picking an alliance or group of alliances you don't like and blaming them is the healthiest thing you can do to turn around Planet Bob's population.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289838963' post='2513625']
Problem I have with your mentality is that you are overly anal about not suffering any critique (as obvious from your post) and being the "good guy" publicly. Always and forever.

There has to be dichotomy between those that are part of the perceived dominant power structure, and those not. If you are seen as on top, yeah, you shall always suffer verbal attacks and there shall be tensions leveled at you. If that is not the case, as if those on the bottom lack ambitions, well, as Ivan beautifully did it you initiate the dichotomy from the top position. (OOC: Why? 'Coz its a !@#$@#$ game and not facebook to make friends and animosities and driving ambitions are fun, not sitting on your ass trying to be "good guys" and playing good PR all day long,...wth).
[/quote]


I'm not against criticism, I'm against criticism without substance. I'm against a 50 page thread popping up every time the most minor things that really aren't even worth commenting on happen.

I'm not against criticism, I'm against stupid criticism.

[quote]We wear our constant critiques as a badge of honor. The new top guys squirm like little girls at the mere sight of it, or spam pages with supposedly sarcastic comments about themselves as a knee jerk reaction that shows just how anal they are if they suffer any bad PR. [/quote]

Its not bad PR, That's my point. The large complain fests spawned by our opposition for the silliest reasons just make them look stupid. Our detractors need to learn to be moderates and become capable of admitting were not pure evil 24/7. The stridency of their rhetoric as it is is just insuring they cannot appeal to a wider base. The very thing we get criticized for, being boring, is the same reason the WCE didn't really get anywhere, its hard to work up a good hate for somebody who hasn't done anything to you personally.

[quote]As you said, you are relatively new around here. You don't know how it went down before and unfortunately you are a part of the new formed mentality that just, lacks. Community changed its all a bit too serious, and God forbid if you ever suffer any perceived "bad PR". [/quote]

Uhh no I didn't. I've fought in conflicts as far back as GW2. I did take a small vacation shortly after the UJW however, so while I am missing a bit in the middle I'm by no means new.

[quote]
With that being said, what is done is done. Ambition-less, static, character-less community is what it is and isn't going to change.
[/quote]

Yes but I think the !@#$%*ing about lack of ambition is directed at the wrong people, as has been noted, we're already on top. The likes of the WCE need to scrape up some ambition and leadership to shake things up.

We've thrown down our enemies, and solidified our position with Pandora's Box, what have you* done lately?

*not you specifically, it a question for just about anybody to ponder.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]I am not a moralist, however I still have ethics.[/color]

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='mrcalkin' timestamp='1289846083' post='2513679']
It seems to be a somewhat common theme amongst your alliance and a couple of others to lament the fact that people aren't doing things the old way anymore, and I see it as being a bit hypocritical considering every time someone from the NPO's of this world get nostalgic they decide to ignore how things actually happened. It's not like its limited to just yourself though, seeing the past through rose-tinted glasses is something most here (and myself) are guilty of.
[/quote]
I own no such glasses. I don't claim to have ever been a saint and never will. But I do know for a fact that I manufactured more enemies and empowered more opposition by design than would have existed otherwise to oppose me. I don't consider that nostalgia at all. It is simply a comment on how I used to do things and how it is different than the way things are done now. I never even said it was better, just different. My personal opinion is that it was so but that doesn't make it fact by any stretch of the imagination.

I am certain that those in power will be just as happy when the world has diminished to the point where they are the only active communities in the Cyberverse because they have cool SPAM games on their offsites and the rest of the world is comprised of non-aligns or non-political alliances that never make it to the OWF.

I personally have no desire to see that world. I have seen it happen "elsewhere" already and it is a dismal and boring place.

[Hyperion321]

People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition.

Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Hyperion321

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289846311' post='2513686']
I got what you are saying the first time. While we could go back and forth, it wouldn't be really constructive. And honestly, I don't care. I said what I wanted in my quasi rant on this page, have nothing to add or remove, and you said what was on your mind. Thats fine.
[/quote]
Yea, I agree. Answering the good points he made wouldn't be constructive because it would make you look like a hypocrite. "I'm too cool for school.", I don't really care, right?

[Rextu]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284']
People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition.

Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.
[/quote]

That's another point: the glory of this game generally happens in IRC queries and secret channels.

Off topic: Long time no see

[Emphix]

Comfort make people resist changes.

Moralism itself is a tool. Not all those that scream moralism are actual moralist. But people know that moral stances are one of the things that can opinionate the population and sow discord in this stagnant world.

All the moral screams and PR battles are not useless or pointless, they can discomfort people enough for them to move out of their comfort chair to actually do stuffs. It could be both ways though, one can decide to just readjust and make their comfort chair stronger, or one can also choose to move the chairs out and prepare a playing field.

just my two cents.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284']
People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition.

Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.
[/quote]
I still find it odd that no-one realised that Karma was specifically designed to allow the Unjust Path to return to preeminence. I thought it would have been apparent when Rangarok was ordered to attack TPF.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Vanilla Napalm

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284']
Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.
[/quote]
You make it sound like an inevitability, but history has shown that we do not allow such things to happen. We are not going to "screw up" in a way which causes an unfavorable (to us) war, period. Stop waiting on us, make your own damn fun.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Sardonic

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284']
People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition.

Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.
[/quote]
Perhaps it isn't that people have zero ambition, but that the ambition isn't conducive to political exchange or societal tumult. If those in power have the ambition of remaining in power to the extent that they will never, ever allow anything to happen that might cause an unfavorable end to that power (no risks/chances) - as Sardonic seems to suggest in regards to GOONS at least - then the end result is the same.

Yes, there are always backroom discussions about who is hated, who has to be isolated, etc. etc. But ultimately so long as those in control only have the ambition to remain in control without ever taking any risks whatsoever in their actions and those opposing them remain as isolated pockets of dissent because they can not get their collective heads out of their asses to look beyond petty feuds then the "ambition of the complacent" will win the day.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289912185' post='2514532']
You make it sound like an inevitability, but history has shown that we do not allow such things to happen. We are not going to "screw up" in a way which causes an unfavorable (to us) war, period. Stop waiting on us, make your own damn fun.
[/quote]
Your opposition has all the time in the world. I predict your allies' patience does not.

also, hai rextu :3

Edited November 16, 2010 by Hyperion321

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289919037' post='2514594']
Your opposition has all the time in the world. I predict your allies' patience does not.
[/quote]
You presume too much.

[Fallen Fool]

Oh look. Starfox has returned after leaving the Cyberverse [b]again[/b].

Seriously Starfox give it a rest. You've been making pretty much the exact same !@#$@#$ wall of text every few months since the end of Karma. It didn't cause change then and it won't cause change now. Likely because you, like me, are utterly irrelevant.

[quote name='ROMMELHSQ' timestamp='1289653195' post='2511796']Oh...we remember what happened very well...[/quote]Cry me a river.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Fallen Fool

[Branimir]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1289865075' post='2513884']I'm not against criticism, I'm against stupid criticism.[/quote]
This is CN. Anyway, I feel many of [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94610&view=findpost&p=2514552"]Ivan's points[/url] are relevant to what you wrote, so to not repeat them unnecessary (especially in regards to your conclusion).
[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1289892932' post='2514343']
Yea, I agree. Answering the good points he made wouldn't be constructive because it would make you look like a hypocrite. "I'm too cool for school.", I don't really care, right?[/quote]
You have a man crush on me or something? Looking through my notifications, it seems you do. Sorry, I am only into girls.

[jer]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284']
People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition.

Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up.
[/quote]
Is that your grand plan? Preparing yourselves for the day the GOONS makes a mistake so you know whose side to take when someone else makes a move on them (because let's face it, it won't be your alliance firing the first shots)? Wow.

GOONS has screwed up multiple times over the past months, and they've always managed to rectify the situation, and there was no sign of Sparta doing anything at all. No sabre rattling, no real contact with others, nothing. What were you doing? Perhaps it's you who needs to pay more attention.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1289931093' post='2514828']
Is that your grand plan? Preparing yourselves for the day the GOONS makes a mistake so you know whose side to take when someone else makes a move on them (because let's face it, it won't be your alliance firing the first shots)? Wow.

GOONS has screwed up multiple times over the past months, and they've always managed to rectify the situation, and there was no sign of Sparta doing anything at all. No sabre rattling, no real contact with others, nothing. What were you doing? Perhaps it's you who needs to pay more attention.
[/quote]
We've discussed our problems with GOONS on several occasions with them. We don't have to throw a tantrum on the OWF to make our opinions heard by those who negatively affect us.

[jer]

I'm sorry, but discussing problems with alliances you don't like simply doesn't cut the mustard in terms of political goings on. If anything it's counter-productive - you've just invited a potential enemy to change their ways. Well done.

So please, if you're going to deride people for not knowing what's going on politically, at least have something better to offer than that. Your information is not exciting in any way shape of form and I find it hilarious that you'd even count that as something happening. Round up your allies and launch an assault on GOONS if they're annoying you, then you can claim to be doing something worthy. Talking to them is nothing.

Whoever it was that thought it'd be a good idea to discuss (on more than one occasion) your problems with the people who should be your enemies needs to resign and let someone with a backbone take over.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' timestamp='1289933782' post='2514866']
I'm sorry, but discussing problems with alliances you don't like simply doesn't cut the mustard in terms of political goings on. If anything it's counter-productive - you've just invited a potential enemy to change their ways. Well done.

So please, if you're going to deride people for not knowing what's going on politically, at least have something better to offer than that. Your information is not exciting in any way shape of form and I find it hilarious that you'd even count that as something happening. Round up your allies and launch an assault on GOONS if they're annoying you, then you can claim to be doing something worthy. Talking to them is nothing.

Whoever it was that thought it'd be a good idea to discuss (on more than one occasion) your problems with the people who should be your enemies needs to resign and let someone with a backbone take over.
[/quote]
"Don't talk about your issues like rational people. Be retarded and launch an offensive on your allies instead."

Yeah, you make a lot of sense.