Revisited: An Even War Avoided

[The Corrupt Teacher]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1289441282' post='2509870']
That's pretty much what many people on what's left of this side try to say. As long as PB/CnG/SF + MHA/Sparta etc are tied so close together the game is stagnant and not going anywhere.
[/quote]

Shame so many of you failed massively in building your alliances and individual ties that when NPO died you all fell apart and became incapable of mounting a resistance. Without the puppet master the puppets are worthless. TOP tried but was as skilled as NPO in building you guys as a solid coalition and failed. Right now you need a miracle something to blow up CnG/SF/PB to make something happen and I don't see in coming any time soon. (will it happen? Yes it always does CnG was supposed to be the most Unified Block Ever but MK left, OoO was unbreakable but NPO backstabbed Polar, Harmlins was eternal but MHA !@#$%*ed out of it like they always do...etc.)

IMO SF ditches PB first CnG is tied to MK still for the most part (as long as =LOST= hold a treaty with MK the MADP nature of CnG will pull all of CnG in. I can't imagine =LOST= ever fighting a war without MK and I can't see CnG kicking =LOST= ever because they rock) and MK is tied in nice and tight with GOONs and Umbrella. PB locks that all in and with that you get Sparta via Athens.

So you'd have to build a coalition with SF (call me crazy but SF minus GOD has seemed pretty wary of SF), all ex-Heg, all Neo BLEU, Aztec, Synergy, and all the small alliances you can pull with it and you still have a coalition that most likely can't win. You fight a war with a coalition like this and fail in most cases. Then after that you wait and hope the reps aren't crazy and that somehow someone implodes and destroys PB so that you can mount a resistance and win. (I'm gambling VE gets wary of MK's influence over certain block members and this starts block fragmentation). (Also I get SF on this side due to the Polar-Rok treaty)

But really thats all random, factless, speculation and is probably very wrong.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1289442500' post='2509916']
But really thats all random, factless, speculation and is probably very wrong.
[/quote]

The details on how the treaties will fall are probably wrong, but your overall points are correct. Them being (correct me if I am wrong):

1) Those not allied to the power structure (all differences aside) are much too weak to mount any kind of opposition.
2) CnG is too close to PB because of DoomHouse.
3) Due to 2, SF must be the ones who lead this coalition/join it (if anyone).
4) 3 won't happen because of the love for VE.
5) Stagnation.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Jay Z

[Cortath]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1289417077' post='2509530']
In all fairness, NPO guys are about as serious as they come. I see far more serious/angry posts from NPO members than sarcastic.

But to address the OP. Any conflict involving NSO won't amount to much, as all their allies always seem to back out and say NSO told them not to defend them. I hardly imagine NSO getting defended even if someone DoW'ed them with the CB: "Just because." I know NPO wouldn't unless they could win. Although maybe the IC/Brown/Purple allies would. It's funny to think FEAR, NATO, Invicta, etc have more balls than the 'legendary' NPO though. 2010 sure isn't 2007-08.
[/quote]

Who says these things? I chuckle, don't I?

[Goldie]

[quote name='Cortath' timestamp='1289447141' post='2510038']
Who says these things? I chuckle, don't I?
[/quote]

You're faking it

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1289442500' post='2509916']
Shame so many of you failed massively in building your alliances and individual ties that when NPO died you all fell apart and became incapable of mounting a resistance. Without the puppet master the puppets are worthless. TOP tried but was as skilled as NPO in building you guys as a solid coalition and failed. Right now you need a miracle something to blow up CnG/SF/PB to make something happen and I don't see in coming any time soon. (will it happen? Yes it always does CnG was supposed to be the most Unified Block Ever but MK left, OoO was unbreakable but NPO backstabbed Polar, Harmlins was eternal but MHA !@#$%*ed out of it like they always do...etc.)

IMO SF ditches PB first CnG is tied to MK still for the most part (as long as =LOST= hold a treaty with MK the MADP nature of CnG will pull all of CnG in. I can't imagine =LOST= ever fighting a war without MK and I can't see CnG kicking =LOST= ever because they rock) and MK is tied in nice and tight with GOONs and Umbrella. PB locks that all in and with that you get Sparta via Athens.

So you'd have to build a coalition with SF (call me crazy but SF minus GOD has seemed pretty wary of SF), all ex-Heg, all Neo BLEU, Aztec, Synergy, and all the small alliances you can pull with it and you still have a coalition that most likely can't win. You fight a war with a coalition like this and fail in most cases. Then after that you wait and hope the reps aren't crazy and that somehow someone implodes and destroys PB so that you can mount a resistance and win. (I'm gambling VE gets wary of MK's influence over certain block members and this starts block fragmentation). (Also I get SF on this side due to the Polar-Rok treaty)

But really thats all random, factless, speculation and is probably very wrong.
[/quote]


There was simply a shift, not a failure to build ties or stats. tC and related alliances ruled the planet for nearly 3 years. Only when some members of tC decided to switch sides did anything dramatic occur. That kind of power shift in the SF/PB/CnG sphere is the only thing that could possibly slide things back to anything close to an even war with the current numbers crunch on Bob.


Most of the Karma side power is made up of the few alliances left on Bob that have never been rolled or had to pay excessive reps or others who were rolled so long ago that their recovery was much easier than it has been over the last year.

Right now that side loves its numbers way to much to rock the boat in any way that risks losing them. So they are content to be "friends" with people they don't like or agree with in order to maintain those stats.

[Duncan King]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1289420880' post='2509576']
TFD is FAR too goody two-shoe to be Dan, and the NSO is, like Dan Stark, someone you both love to hate, and hate to love . Hodges has to be someone like Sparta or OO

But yes, great show indeed, thought you'd agree [/quote]
I haven't seen enough evidence of NSO being competent enough for them to deserve the mantle of Dan Stark. TFD's internal environment is quite chaotic, so I still think we should get Dan Stark, but I agree that our external perception is more like Jack Bailey.

I still think you're Hodges. The recent flap you had with MK is very similar to the bust that Hodges made last week. MK was the fence trying to get away, the rep demand (and possibly RV) was like the fire escape, and the NSO (as Hodges) came in and made MK (the fence) pay for its stupidity.

Those of you in the US can get that reference by clicking [url="http://www.hulu.com/watch/191200/the-good-guys-silence-of-the-dan"]this[/url] and going to 22:30.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Duncan King

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1289442500' post='2509916']
Shame so many of you failed massively in building your alliances and individual ties that when NPO died you all fell apart and became incapable of mounting a resistance. Without the puppet master the puppets are worthless. TOP tried but was as skilled as NPO in building you guys as a solid coalition and failed. Right now you need a miracle something to blow up CnG/SF/PB to make something happen and I don't see in coming any time soon. (will it happen? Yes it always does CnG was supposed to be the most Unified Block Ever but MK left, OoO was unbreakable but NPO backstabbed Polar, Harmlins was eternal but MHA !@#$%*ed out of it like they always do...etc.)

IMO SF ditches PB first CnG is tied to MK still for the most part (as long as =LOST= hold a treaty with MK the MADP nature of CnG will pull all of CnG in. I can't imagine =LOST= ever fighting a war without MK and I can't see CnG kicking =LOST= ever because they rock) and MK is tied in nice and tight with GOONs and Umbrella. PB locks that all in and with that you get Sparta via Athens.

So you'd have to build a coalition with SF (call me crazy but SF minus GOD has seemed pretty wary of SF), all ex-Heg, all Neo BLEU, Aztec, Synergy, and all the small alliances you can pull with it and you still have a coalition that most likely can't win. You fight a war with a coalition like this and fail in most cases. Then after that you wait and hope the reps aren't crazy and that somehow someone implodes and destroys PB so that you can mount a resistance and win. (I'm gambling VE gets wary of MK's influence over certain block members and this starts block fragmentation). (Also I get SF on this side due to the Polar-Rok treaty)

But really thats all random, factless, speculation and is probably very wrong.
[/quote]


I think it would be CnG that left PB's side before SF. CnG still has a few alliances with some strong connections to Polar and allies of Polar. IAA-Lost, IAA-GR, GR-NpO, TIO-Athens, etc...

Also like you just said some of the things that are suppose to last forever don't. So I wouldn't really bank on LOST and MK fighting together forever, but yea I don't see their relationship breaking down anytime soon. Also you have to remember Synergy's close ties to CnG. If a war broke out between Synergy and PB it could possibly force CnG neutral, but maybe I just like to think my bloc is more popular than it really is.

[Lord Fingolfin]

The OP has a few interesting insights, but also a few errors. First and foremost, the day that TOP sides with NpO to fight PB, is a cold day in hell. Also, to complaints/claims that people are unwilling to take initiative and do bold things...we pre-emptive DoW'ed an entire bloc that we felt was a threat to us last war. Balls in your court guys, time for you all to do something interesting

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1289492011' post='2510420']
The OP has a few interesting insights, but also a few errors. First and foremost, the day that TOP sides with NpO to fight PB, is a cold day in hell. Also, to complaints/claims that people are unwilling to take initiative and do bold things...we pre-emptive DoW'ed an entire bloc that we felt was a threat to us last war. Balls in your court guys, time for you all to do something interesting
[/quote]

Yea, no offense to IRON/TOP/Duckroll, but they've made some good strides with SF so the first war you see pop up where they can prove to SF they will legitimately fight for them they will do it.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289411462' post='2509443']
MK & Co are trying to provoke people into a war. Any reaction will result in a unified SF/PB/C&G group with the usual hangers on crushing a minority opposition. They are pushing harder and harder because the end of terms for some people is coming and they want to beat down any potential opposition before tht happens. They pushed and pushed before NPOs terms were up and in the end had polar start the war then switch sides once the larger alliances committed. If no one bites they will just attack someone for no reason or do another Polar style switcharoo or maybe help set up an opposition then step back and leak the logs as happened recently.
[/quote]
lol at the notion of C&G usually relying on crushing minority groups. Thats pretty funny. Also as far as I can tell MK is trying to do what all of you want us to do: spice things up. Hell, RV even thanked us for it.

[D34th]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289488552' post='2510395']
I think it would be CnG that left PB's side before SF. CnG still has a few alliances with some strong connections to Polar and allies of Polar. IAA-Lost, IAA-GR, GR-NpO, TIO-Athens, etc...

Also like you just said some of the things that are suppose to last forever don't. So I wouldn't really bank on LOST and MK fighting together forever, but yea I don't see their relationship breaking down anytime soon. Also you have to remember Synergy's close ties to CnG. If a war broke out between Synergy and PB it could possibly force CnG neutral, but maybe I just like to think my bloc is more popular than it really is.
[/quote]

Polaris isn't allied with GR.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289493103' post='2510434']
Polaris isn't allied with GR.
[/quote]

This is true. I think I meant to put down NV. Thank you for noticing.

[Bob]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289488552' post='2510395']
I think it would be CnG that left PB's side before SF. CnG still has a few alliances with some strong connections to Polar and allies of Polar. IAA-Lost, IAA-GR, GR-NpO, TIO-Athens, etc...

Also like you just said some of the things that are suppose to last forever don't. So I wouldn't really bank on LOST and MK fighting together forever, but yea I don't see their relationship breaking down anytime soon. Also you have to remember Synergy's close ties to CnG. If a war broke out between Synergy and PB it could possibly force CnG neutral, but maybe I just like to think my bloc is more popular than it really is.
[/quote]
I don't recall there being a treaty between GR and NpO anymore. *already noted ignore*

Edited November 11, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[KingEd]

This thread shows the necessity for a war on BOB.

[President Obama]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289492439' post='2510425']
Yea, no offense to IRON/TOP/Duckroll, but they've made some good strides with SF so the first war you see pop up where they can prove to SF they will legitimately fight for them they will do it.
[/quote]
Good observation. I was wondering when people were going to notice this, for TOP at least.

It's like you have a spy on our forums or something..

Edited November 11, 2010 by President Obama

[lebubu]

I always come to these threads seeking clarification on my alliance's foreign policy and relations, don't you?

[President Obama]

It is one of the best places to get that sort of info, but I usually rely more on random people who query me on IRC.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='President Obama' timestamp='1289498043' post='2510480']
Good observation. I was wondering when people were going to notice this, for TOP at least.

It's like you have a spy on our forums or something..
[/quote]


It's amazing. All this time I figured SF was doing a good job keeping it under wraps, what with the feelings ranging from general indifference to distrust and all.

[President Obama]

Yeah, I thought the acting was good as well. Omniscient1 was just too good though.

[Sephiroth]

MK wouldn't of declared war if it would of been an even war, if they're going to declare they've probably already won. NSO knew it wouldn't of been an even war and so did MK, that is why NSO wanted to avoid it.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289488552' post='2510395']
I think it would be CnG that left PB's side before SF. CnG still has a few alliances with some strong connections to Polar and allies of Polar. IAA-Lost, IAA-GR, GR-NpO, TIO-Athens, etc...

Also like you just said some of the things that are suppose to last forever don't. So I wouldn't really bank on LOST and MK fighting together forever, but yea I don't see their relationship breaking down anytime soon. Also you have to remember Synergy's close ties to CnG. If a war broke out between Synergy and PB it could possibly force CnG neutral, but maybe I just like to think my bloc is more popular than it really is.
[/quote]

I think I can safely say (even though it'd be denied) that =LOST= would back MK through anything and if that required leaving CnG it would happen. I can also say that, that tie alone is stronger than the IAA ties, the NpO ties (which are really non-existant), and the TIO ODP Especially when you take into account the ODN-MK treaty as well...so yeah I'd say your overrating your popularity. More likely than not you'd not be the target anyway I doubt PB would ever waste the firepower on you (no offense) when its got more prominent ex-Heg members it wants to waste. By the time it chained out you'd be backing PB through CnG before you forced them neutral.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1289384767' post='2509237']
What exactly has PB done that there needs to be an answer for anyway other than exist?
[/quote]
My thoughts precisely. Irrational fear / paranoia, perhaps?

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1289492011' post='2510420']
The OP has a few interesting insights, but also a few errors. First and foremost, the day that TOP sides with NpO to fight PB, is a cold day in hell. Also, to complaints/claims that people are unwilling to take initiative and do bold things...we pre-emptive DoW'ed an entire bloc that we felt was a threat to us last war. Balls in your court guys, time for you all to do something interesting
[/quote]
So I'm going to give you the point on this one. Although NpO did get the ball rolling, it wasn't until TOP/etc rolled in that things really got fun. It's understandable that people are a bit gun-shy after the last major wars were started and lost by the same party (NPO in Karma, TOP in TIDDITwhatever). But an alliance shouldn't really cry foul and then proceed to NOT defend the party being attacked if they have a MDP level treaty. Back during the Bi-Polar and 1V-GATO war (among others) people defended their allies regardless of the outcome. And I must say I have tremendous respect for the CSN/IAA/NpO/CnG's NPO DoWer's of this planet.

I am surprised to see TOP/IRON getting closer to SF, as I know in my TOP days during Karma most people in TOP hated RoK and even joked about DoWing them for "crushing" preliminary rep requests of IRON. But maybe things have changed inside TOP and TOP isn't so "real-politik" anymore. Only time will tell.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1289521326' post='2510732']
I am surprised to see TOP/IRON getting closer to SF, as I know in my TOP days during Karma most people in TOP hated RoK and even joked about DoWing them for "crushing" preliminary rep requests of IRON. But maybe things have changed inside TOP and TOP isn't so "real-politik" anymore. Only time will tell.
[/quote]

You probably shouldn't take OWF political speculation as gospel.

[Denial]

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1289499639' post='2510495']
I always come to these threads seeking clarification on my alliance's foreign policy and relations, don't you?
[/quote]
I just head straight to HeroofTime and Alterego posts for my enlightenment.