Oh well, It is what it is...no real proof though

[eejack]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283725779' post='2443052']
Get with the program. GOONS spied Corinan already and proved that he did aid Methrage. Corinan is paying $90m reps.

Don't like reading or what?
[/quote]

Actually, one of two things happens...either you made it up ( roll a 19 or less on a twenty sided die ) or you knew it for a fact ( roll a 20 ).
Having only read to that point, I rolled a 12....figured you just made it up. The thought that you somehow *knew* something to be true never actually occurred to me since I never figured you to be smart enough to be a spy - especially against NSO. Looks like I was wrong.

EEjack

[steviewonder]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1283714349' post='2442856']
[color="#0000FF"]Rest assured GOONies, I won't be forgetting. When you make a three million dollar mistake I'll be sure to see you pay something just as excessive as this. Then you'll be unmasked before the world as the squirming, cowardly, opportunistic thugs you are. The world will see what I see.[/color]
[/quote]

[color="#0000FF"]That's the spirit old chap.[/color]

Edited September 5, 2010 by steviewonder

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1283726074' post='2443054']
[color="#0000FF"]Neither can I. I'm sure your alliance will be shedding its tough guy image and crying a real river.[/color]
[/quote]
Only one way to find out!

[The MVP]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1283727227' post='2443073']
[b]The tables will never be turned.[/b] Your empty bluster is worse than RV's. (His is only better because I like blue.)
[/quote]


That won't be up to you.

If Karma truly exists, all we need do is wait.

Edited September 5, 2010 by The MVP

[JT Jag]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1283726915' post='2443066']
Ah, welcome back Hegemonic days. Whats that? You never left us?[/quote]
If this "hegemony" of years past was still in-tact, my history research informs me that we would, right now, be invading you over this with our allies, we would win, demand hundreds of millions worth of reps in tech and cash, Corinian would be put on a PZI list, and we would install a viceroy to make sure it doesn't happen again for at least six months.

Instead, one of your members has to pay back punitive personal reparations, and your alliance as a whole remains entirely unaffected.

Stow away that bravado.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1283726915' post='2443066']
Ah, welcome back Hegemonic days. Whats that? You never left us?
[/quote]
That's pretty laughable, Bob is the least hegemonic person I know, moreover, his logic is sound.

[Marneus Calgar]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1283729912' post='2443099']
Only one way to find out!
[/quote]
[color="#FF8C00"]Oh, I think everyone will be foaming at the mouth for this.[/color]

[the lizard queen]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1283732194' post='2443135']
If this "hegemony" of years past was still in-tact, my history research informs me that we would, right now, be invading you over this with our allies, we would win, demand hundreds of millions worth of reps in tech and cash, Corinian would be put on a PZI list, and we would install a viceroy to make sure it doesn't happen again for at least six months.

Instead, one of your members has to pay back punitive personal reparations, and your alliance as a whole remains entirely unaffected.

Stow away that bravado.
[/quote]

Your logic and sense of fair play is astounding. Bravo.

[Heft]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1283726169' post='2443055']Hey, thanks for recognising the justification of the amount asked! Yes, a large proportion of this amount is punitive, because of the repeated pattern of NSO doing this ... so it isn't just for sending $3m to a rogue (for which, yes, $90m would be excessive).
[/quote]
The NSO has a repeated pattern of lone members sending secret aid to a clear rogue? I wasn't aware of that.

Or you're just blowing smoke out your ass.

[Heft]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1283732194' post='2443135']
If this "hegemony" of years past was still in-tact, my history research informs me that we would, right now, be invading you over this with our allies, we would win, demand hundreds of millions worth of reps in tech and cash, Corinian would be put on a PZI list, and we would install a viceroy to make sure it doesn't happen again for at least six months.

Instead, one of your members has to pay back punitive personal reparations, and your alliance as a whole remains entirely unaffected.

Stow away that bravado.
[/quote]
Forcing someone to pay 30X under the guise of "punitive reparations" sounds exactly like what would have happened.

Not that it has any relevance, at all.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1283734602' post='2443179']
The NSO has a repeated pattern of lone members sending secret aid to a clear rogue? I wasn't aware of that.

Or you're just blowing smoke out your ass.
[/quote]

I know you're being intentionally obtuse, but to clarify in case you aren't, it's the fact that twice now your Alliance has aided a rogue. The way you aided doesn't matter, just the act overall itself.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1283734976' post='2443183']
Forcing someone to pay 30X under the guise of "punitive reparations" sounds exactly like what would have happened.

Not that it has any relevance, at all.
[/quote]This is somewhat unrelated, but how can we be sure that he only sent 3M? Both he and Methrage have federal aid commissions, so in all likelyhood he sent 4.5 million.

That's a mere 20x in reparations.

[Marneus Calgar]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1283734976' post='2443183']
Forcing someone to pay 30X under the guise of "punitive reparations" sounds exactly like what would have happened.

Not that it has any relevance, at all.
[/quote]
[color="#FF8C00"]I believe they were including damages were they not? 3 Mil could get about 4 - 6 nukes off.[/color]

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1283734976' post='2443183']
Forcing someone to pay 30X under the guise of "punitive reparations" sounds exactly like what would have happened.

Not that it has any relevance, at all.
[/quote]
If your so unhappy with the amount then turn over Corinan or go to war. I'm sure GOONS would oblige this change in the terms at any time.

Otherwise, quit your crying.

[Augustus Autumn]

[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1283709071' post='2442790']
Did we not read Heggo allowing them to do it?
[/quote]

Your selective digging for my oversight missed the following post:

[quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1283666191' post='2442298']
Gotcha, I missed that among all the other nonsense. Thanks for the clarification.
[/quote]

which came two later in which I acknowledged my error. But thanks for playing.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1283735399' post='2443191']
If your so unhappy with the amount then turn over Corinan or go to war. I'm sure GOONS would oblige this change in the terms at any time.

Otherwise, quit your crying.
[/quote]

Fernando, I'll offer some unsolicited advice. For the love of all that is holy, please actually take a moment to listen to it.

In the span of this thread you've thrown the alliance you belonged to under the proverbial bus, have alienated those who made efforts previously to go to bat for you and have made yourself an international laughing stock. Should you actually have any desire to take some sort of respectable place within the political community at the very least you'll probably have to alter your identity (OOC: reroll) and begin anew while hoping that no one actually picks up on who you are. I'd like to think you'd like to contribute in some meaningful way going forward. If so, now would be a good time to stop slinging volitile phrases, think a smidge about what has happened and perhaps readjust. Should you not do so, you'll end up joining the ranks of other national rulers who ended up rage-quitting their alliances, hounding them uselessly and then giving up rulership of their nation to fade into obscurity. Think it over - how do you want to be remembered?

Edited September 6, 2010 by Ferrozoica Hive

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1283734976' post='2443183']
Forcing someone to pay 30X under the guise of "punitive reparations" sounds exactly like what would have happened.

Not that it has any relevance, at all.
[/quote]
For some reason, the other thing that doesn't seem to have any relevance is [b]committing an act of war[/b], or [b]damages done through nuclear weapons[/b].

Hmm, I wonder if we could have a rogue run into NSO and drop numerous nukes and then argue that there should be no reps whatsoever since nobody aided him. Ignoring giant gaping details sounds exactly like what happened.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1283737090' post='2443208']
For some reason, the other thing that doesn't seem to have any relevance is [b]committing an act of war[/b], or [b]damages done through nuclear weapons[/b].

Hmm, I wonder if we could have a rogue run into NSO and drop numerous nukes and then argue that there should be no reps whatsoever since nobody aided him. Ignoring giant gaping details sounds exactly like what happened.
[/quote]

You just don't get it, do you?

[b]They only aided him 3 mil, so what's the big problem?[/b]

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1283737293' post='2443210']
You just don't get it, do you?

[b]They only aided him 3 mil, so what's the big problem?[/b]
[/quote]4.5 mil. Let's call it what it is.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1283737457' post='2443213']
4.5 mil. Let's call it what it is.
[/quote]

3 mil, bud.

Gotta blow this out of proportion as much as possible to get everyone to side with meohwait



EDIT: edit

Edited September 6, 2010 by Haquertal

[JT Jag]

Goonsir, I demand you acknowledge the true amount of money that Dopp gave to the sanctioned nuclear rogue.

Otherwise [color="#0000FF"]you will regret this[/color].

[James IV]

Wonder Decom terms are cool. Its all good though because it was just one option.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I have a feeling of déjà-vu...

[Hyperbad]

Curious, what's Methrage's warchest at?

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1283740066' post='2443256']
Curious, what's Methrage's warchest at?
[/quote]Pretty empty.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1283726169' post='2443055']
That's because the NPO's list, and those of many of its allies at that time, were what we now term 'EZI' (up until they all abandoned the practice just before Karma in an attempt to beat back the fires of outrage that were building against them). The EoG list, and the PZI lists of every other alliance, isn't objectionable because any reasonable person recognises that sometimes you get nations who do not deserve peace until they agree to change their ways – most rogues end up on 'PZI lists' of one kind or another because the reps they would have to pay to cover their damages far exceeds what it's possible for them to pay.
[/quote]
Just a note about EoG.

It does not apply to single nations; rulers who reroll are not allowed off the EoG list. Which is the same as NPO's old target list (they did not have something they formally called a permanent ZI list, but rather just had a target list of nations that were to be attacked).

GOONS say it's not a permazi list because it's not permanent, rulers do get off of it sometimes. This is a carbon copy of the argument Moo made as to why the NPO's target list was not a permazi list, and it's fallacious for the exact same reason; there isn't really a distinction between indefinite ZI and permanent ZI in common parlance.

It is also not the case that every other alliance has a PZI list. There are quite a few alliances that do not have one. Many alliances do not routinely permazi rogues; in fact the most common punishment is a single ZI.