War Ends

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1282693607' post='2430084']
Read much? I didn't say we won. I was congratulating your side for having to use 4 alliances to beat us. Again, congrats on this victory that took 4 AAs to achieve - (5 to those that consider TENE relevant, but I don't}.
[/quote]


The way you worded it, along with Sith proclamations that they did indeed win, made me think that you meant it differently. Apologies.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1282693326' post='2430078']
As always, I'm afraid you speak only for yourself (and the huge masses that follow your beacon of truth). The conduct of some of NSO's members here is wildly at odds with your posting.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'm afraid I haven't seen anything to suggest this. You might be confused.[/color]

[lazaraus45]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1282693607' post='2430084']
Read much? I didn't say we won. I was congratulating your side for having to use 4 alliances to stop us getting into PM. Again, congrats on this victory that used 4 AAs to achieve - (5 to those that consider TENE relevant, but I don't}.
[/quote]

fixed that for ya,

do you have anything but a complete lack of strategic sense to offer this thread?

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282693688' post='2430086']
The way you worded it, along with Sith proclamations that they did indeed win, made me think that you meant it differently. Apologies.
[/quote]

You're behind times Hoo, they're now claiming they fought all of SF to a stalemate.

[quote]Official IRC of the New Sith Order -- Page a @ or above for Gov || http://www.newsithorder.info/phpBB3/ || We just fought SF to a stalemate, everybody celebrate! ||[/quote]

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282693688' post='2430086']
The way you worded it, along with Sith proclamations that they did indeed win, made me think that you meant it differently. Apologies.
[/quote]
Fine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoTl2K0T4Aw

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='lazaraus45' timestamp='1282693806' post='2430091']
fixed that for ya,

do you have anything but a complete lack of strategic sense to offer this thread?
[/quote]

Come to think of it, in the big picture, this is a clear win for all involved parties. Differing strategic goals means different definitions of victory.

[img]http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7996/customizeawereallwinner.jpg[/img]

So congrats to everyone.

[joracy]

At least people stopped !@#$%*ing about Hoo being a liar for the last few pages :\

[Thorgrum]

[quote name='joracy' timestamp='1282694788' post='2430106']
At least people stopped !@#$%*ing about Hoo being a liar for the last few pages :\
[/quote]

Often when people talk out of thier $@! for extended periods of time, the unpleasantness of the discharge is enough to foul thier desire to carry on.

This entire discussion is full of win, ive taken the time to read through it all, what a thrill too. I enjoy being an insignifigant cog in the wheel it increases the lulz factor dramatically. Good luck out thier NSO, somehow I dont think you'll need it though.

cheers

[Bob Janova]

[quote]You're behind times Hoo, they're now claiming they fought all of SF to a stalemate.[/quote]


When you [url=http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=New%20Sith%20Order]lose 55% of your NS[/url], and the war ends by you surrendering, you [b]lost[/b]. Not a stalemate, not a draw, a loss. You have got no material terms because the alliances that attacked you have a sense of proportionality and didn't think it would be justified considering the initial offence (just as the ex-Hegemony crowd was demanding in all the threads on your behalf), not because you fought them to the point where they had to give it to you. Anyone who tries to play the revisionism card is just being an idiot. That's exactly why we had to make sure you [i]did[/i] surrender, if we'd permitted you to have a white peace you'd have been straight up here claiming you hadn't lost. Apparently at least one of you is dumb enough to try it anyway.

[Tarikmo]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282694602' post='2430103']
Come to think of it, in the big picture, this is a clear win for all involved parties. Differing strategic goals means different definitions of victory.

[img]http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7996/customizeawereallwinner.jpg[/img]

So congrats to everyone.


[/quote]
What if our definition of victory included the differing goal losing? Who wins now?

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282696555' post='2430128']


When you [url=http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=New%20Sith%20Order]lose 55% of your NS[/url], and the war ends by you surrendering, you [b]lost[/b]. Not a stalemate, not a draw, a loss. You have got no material terms because the alliances that attacked you have a sense of proportionality and didn't think it would be justified considering the initial offence (just as the ex-Hegemony crowd was demanding in all the threads on your behalf), not because you fought them to the point where they had to give it to you. Anyone who tries to play the revisionism card is just being an idiot. That's exactly why we had to make sure you [i]did[/i] surrender, if we'd permitted you to have a white peace you'd have been straight up here claiming you hadn't lost. Apparently at least one of you is dumb enough to try it anyway.
[/quote]

Your analysis is right on for the way accountants estimate wars, but far too myopic here. Keeping this from escalating in the ways some wished is a victory this document does not show. That victory is much greater than any temporary changes in NSO nation strength. Sure, the NSO also lost the central "rogue" debate with TENE/Rok, but that was not all that was at stake. If not, why were people like Xiphosis about to pop a head vein throughout this little party?

[quote name='Tarikmo' timestamp='1282696623' post='2430132']
What if our definition of victory included the differing goal losing? Who wins now?
[/quote]

Touché.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282688482' post='2429967']
You're missing the fact that I [b]didn't[/b] let an alliance burn this time.

It is okay though, lesson learned. The NSO can sit in eternal war next time for all I care.
[/quote]


You didn't not let them burn either. Remember, RoK walked away as promised, the rest was your allies' doing and you had no authority or control over what they did? By your own words you did nothing to save or jeopardise NSO's future. Try and stay on message or you''ll confuse people.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1282698967' post='2430172']
You didn't not let them burn either. Remember, RoK walked away as promised, the rest was your allies' doing and you had no authority or control over what they did? By your own words you did nothing to save or jeopardize NSO's future. Try and stay on message or you''ll confuse people.
[/quote]

We have no interest in NSO's future. They can do whatever they want just as they did before the war. We are a sovereign alliance, and we respect the sovereignty of our allies as well. In order for us to end it now we had to negotiate with our own allies to achieve a common ground. Otherwise this war would still have been going on. I guess we did care for their future after all.

[the lizard queen]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but this was a much needed break from paying bills and collecting. Thanks for the fun. Until next time

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1282698967' post='2430172']
You didn't not let them burn either. Remember, RoK walked away as promised, the rest was your allies' doing and you had no authority or control over what they did? By your own words you did nothing to save or jeopardise NSO's future. Try and stay on message or you''ll confuse people.
[/quote]

Don't you have a Children's Crusade to lead or something? God....give it a rest, already.

[Tarikmo]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282700138' post='2430203']
Don't you have a Children's Crusade to lead or something? God....give it a rest, already.
[/quote]
Don't you have to go beat up some defenseless children while on a crusade?

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1282698967' post='2430172']
You didn't not let them burn either. Remember, RoK walked away as promised, the rest was your allies' doing and you had no authority or control over what they did? By your own words you did nothing to save or jeopardise NSO's future. Try and stay on message or you''ll confuse people.
[/quote]

As much as STA loves involving themselves in issues that have nothing to do with them and as much as STA so desperately wishes they were in on conversations they have no business being in ... you are not privy to what went on during the discussions that got us to this point.

I can tell you though, that with as many times as the NSO have been the instigators in issues involving this side of the treaty web ... this resolution is not the one most people over here wanted. So yes, this was merciful and yes, this was due to us seeking an end to the conflict that included all of our allies. The quest for this statement or terms at all was not ours, but the very notion of ending this now for all of us was.

To sum it up for you: We were ready to walk away now as promised. In order to make it so that [b]everyone[/b] did so, we went to our allies and asked what it would take to make that happen.

You and pezstar and the rest of STA can go ahead and fall silent now. Thus far you have added nothing to any conversation involving this war and have only shown to hold some odd grudge that we were never aware of.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1282699759' post='2430193']
We have no interest in NSO's future. They can do whatever they want just as they did before the war. We are a sovereign alliance, and we respect the sovereignty of our allies as well. In order for us to end it now we had to negotiate with our own allies to achieve a common ground. Otherwise this war would still have been going on. I guess we did care for their future after all.
[/quote]

Easy, Joe. Don't destroy their crusade, man. STA are nothing without those!

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1282698967' post='2430172']
You didn't not let them burn either. Remember, RoK walked away as promised, the rest was your allies' doing and you had no authority or control over what they did? By your own words you did nothing to save or jeopardise NSO's future. Try and stay on message or you''ll confuse people.
[/quote]
Tyga don't let him notice the strings aren't attached to anything.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282700292' post='2430208']
As much as STA loves involving themselves in issues that have nothing to do with them and as much as STA so desperately wishes they were in on conversations they have no business being in ... you are not privy to what went on during the discussions that got us to this point.

I can tell you though, that with as many times as the NSO have been the instigators in issues involving this side of the treaty web ... this resolution is not the one most people over here wanted. So yes, this was merciful and yes, this was due to us seeking an end to the conflict that included all of our allies. The quest for this statement or terms at all was not ours, but the very notion of ending this now for all of us was.

To sum it up for you: We were ready to walk away now as promised. In order to make it so that [b]everyone[/b] did so, we went to our allies and asked what it would take to make that happen.

You and pezstar and the rest of STA can go ahead and fall silent now. Thus far you have added nothing to any conversation involving this war and have only shown to hold some odd grudge that we were never aware of.
[/quote]

Which flies in the face of the assertion you had no responsibility or even mandate to ask your allies to do anything. It can't be both so I was wondering which it was.

I don't have any grudge, my only involvement in this discussion was to seek to clear up some contradictory statements. The first being your allies holding your word up as the Cyberverse's hardest of currency and then throwing your words under the bus as not relevant when peace "discussions" were underway. And, yes, I've seen the logs.

The second being the claim that RoK had no power or mandate to request anything from their allies by way of going out of this war on RoK's terms (despite the war being for all intents and purpose a domestic RoK issue) which was then followed by you claiming responsibility for dragging your allies off NSO.

So, while you prefer to faff about with conspiracy theories and fabricated grudges and in doing so ignore what I'm actually posting and asking, it does not detract from the fact I have merely being asking questions based on what you and your allies have said which at times seems to be at odds with each other.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Tygaland

[Rampage3]

While we are at it STA, what is your natural issue with Rok?


Every time we come up you have a bit of hate to spread. I could really care less about it, but I am simply curious at this point. You jump into this issue as if you know when you obviously do not. You would think that after all of your complaining once we were at war that you would be HAPPY to get peace. Whatever....

I was there and I can tell you, Hoo pushed against a TIDE to get this done. You're welcome.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Rampage3

[Omniscient1]

Congrats on peace and all that stuff.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Rampage3' timestamp='1282701341' post='2430237']
While we are at it STA, what is your natural issue with Rok?


Every time we come up you have a bit of hate to spread. I could really care less about it, but I am simply curious at this point. You jump into this issue as if you know when you obviously do not. You would think that after all of your complaining once we were at war that you would be HAPPY to get peace. Whatever....

I was there and I can tell you, Hoo pushed against a TIDE to get this done. You're welcome.
[/quote]

We politely declined Pezstar's request to mediate due to the fact that she would not be an impartial party in our eyes. Pezstar, and to a lesser extent STA, have not shutup since.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rampage3' timestamp='1282701341' post='2430237']
While we are at it STA, what is your natural issue with Rok?
[/quote]

Why do we need to have an "issue" with RoK to ask questions about events affecting our friends in NSO? I love how anytime one of your alliances is questioned about anything it must be an "issue" or a "grudge".

[quote]
Every time we come up you have a bit of hate to spread. I could really care less about it, but I am simply curious at this point. You jump into this issue as if you know when you obviously do not. You would think that after all of your complaining once we were at war that you would be HAPPY to get peace. Whatever....
[/quote]

Really? I hadn't noticed any specific targeting of RoK by the STA. Perhaps you can link me to some you have issue with privately.

[quote]
I was there and I can tell you, Hoo pushed against a TIDE to get this done. You're welcome.
[/quote]

I wasn't there, no. But I have seen the logs of the discussion where peace was "agreed" and it did quite clearly show that Hoo's word was gospel until it was inconvenient at which point it was thrown under the bus. (You might recall this was my initial point in this discussion). My only other comment was regarding the power or lackthereof to call allies off when fighting under your banner. Ragashingo also raised this point and I have to say I agree with his point and reasoning.

Again, not an "issue" with RoK but a clarification of what happened and why.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Tygaland

[Bilrow]

Congrats on peace, NSO.


222 Million in aid sent so far from NPO to NSO. o/