Bavaricar

[quote name='o ya baby' timestamp='1289284137' post='2507471'] 15,000,000 and 250* don't shortchange us! [/quote] IMO MK deserved $3,000,000. Thus teh adjustment.

Speak negatively in public about the Mushroom Kingdom? "That'll be $12,000,000 and 250 tech, pls." How cute.

Oh and yeah, one more pet peeve. "Good faith" negotiations don't start with a high number. They start with "good faith" numbers. That is all. Have a nice day.

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289273007' post='2507128'] Right, it's a straw man. That's why your post proved my point that there is a clear difference between seeking compensation on the one hand, and wishing to see an alliance rolled and acting upon that wish on the other. [/quote] For what it's worth, your attempt to twist the point of my observation into whatever it is you are trying to twist it into made no sense.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1289272469' post='2507103'] You have no idea how amusing I find this post. And no, I legitimately don't mean that in an insulting way. [/quote] I have to agree that this is amusing to see alliances tremble in your presence again. As you clearly know (judging by what I suspect to be the source of your amusement), once upon a time in real alliances, unprovoked attacks were declared on without hesitation to keep whatever negotiations might ensue honest. <i>Then</i> reps or member-booting discussions took place. Alas, remember how even the GPA used to handle <b>any</b> single allied nation that hit it? How weak-willed today's alliances have become. As for the policy change, I think it has been this policy for quite some time in practice. So, congrats on making it public and thanks for sharing it with us in print.

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1289272264' post='2507096'] There is a high degree of subjectivity in any discussion of what constitutes reasonable or unreasonable compensation and negotiation. Oh, please. You know as well as any other that whether the mention of military matters entered the discussion or not, the disparity between MK and NSO would have still influenced the capacity for both parties to meet their respective goals from the negotiation. There's no way around that. Again, you make the false assumption that our [i]ability[/i] to roll NSO automatically translates into an [i]intention[/i] to roll NSO if our original demands were not met. That is quite a leap, and just plain ignorant. [/quote] Straw. Man. From over here, it seems rather that the MK would prefer extracting cash and tech from less favorably positioned alliances over rolling them (or in this case having them rolled by smaller allies). Far more profitable and less "evil," subjectively speaking of course. <rolleyes>

I take solace in knowing that any aid Methrage might send is tantamount to a steady radioactive poisoning of its recipients. Also, [redacted].

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286146503' post='2473551'] Either way this discussion isn't about our tiff, it's about asking STA government questions. [/quote] Well, it's part of the question of under what circumstances might the STA remove their sanction from Methrage's nation. At this point, it sounds like the answer is yes, if he jumps through your [ooc]something awful[/ooc] hoops. I just wanted it to be known that by leaving the sanction on until he participates in your mercy board, such a sanction rides dangerously close to endorsing your mercy board. Understand?

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286146017' post='2473534'] This is a serious accusation, and seeing as a conclusion has been reached that it was one rogue ex-goon it is a very irresponsible one too. [/quote] Hardly. Methrage was not the only one targeted.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1286144696' post='2473515'] That's a pretty big "if". It's my understanding that GOONS is more than willing to discuss peace with you. [/quote] Hate to butt in here again, but I think you know the barrier to peace for KN is our refusal to participate in their "mercy" [OOC]player humiliation[/OOC] board. Someone the other day really hit the nail on the head, GOON requirements for peace for alliances or nations who declare on them or fight back have nothing to do with Planet Bob politics. It's all lulz and schadenfreude with no relation to this realm. After seeing how the goons still like to stalk nation leaders outside of this realm, their forum is one place I will never visit in this incarnation.

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1286144255' post='2473508'] He's saying that in this case the governments of certain alliances (VE for example) told their general membership about what was coming. Because they told their general membership and there was then a "leak" (the OP is considered as a leak), the general membership will not be told of this anymore. [/quote] Congrats on punishing all of your members over a leak, that most likely came from the gov level. I also don't even see what's the big opsec deal here, it was going to made public one way or another. If keeping members in the dark on other things like this in the future really is some alliances' response to this, that smells more like an excuse to further isolate some weak government members from their alliances' memberships.

Another fool's errand would be a more appropriate name for this group.

Policy DoWs are awesome. o/

Cool election announcement. o/

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1285732742' post='2467636'] What the hell are you talking about. [/quote] Each time you respond to one of my posts you ask generally why someone has not ruled it off-topic. It's a cute tactic. And yep, I finally fell for it. Have fun.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1285731196' post='2467600'] What I see is run of the mill incidents being dramatized, and I see it strangling this planet. I see babies crying, the gnashing of teeth, and vindictive inquiries all over what amounts to spilled milk. I see people with absolutely no long term memory and thousands upon thousands of posts filled with bickering and catch phrases, idiots who try to sound smart and witty, and comparisons so bad they make me cringe. We are a group that views situations from a standpoint grounded in rationality. In your warped view of the world, you may call it degenerated, but I call it being reasonable. Also, apparently there is no such thing as off topic anymore. [/quote] You really enjoy this backseat moderating don't you? Well, I'm sorry Mr. Moderator. I was replying to a member of the VE who was defending his treaty partner the GOONS who was attacking the OP. I'll take whatever warning this earns me and post this answer here rather than visit the moderation area to further engage in your side's moderation reporting war.

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285731063' post='2467598'] You know where to find us. [/quote] Given the frequency of your alliance's visits here, right here seems to be the best venue. It's not like there is any need to have secret terms, right? OOC: Echoing and expanding on Methrage, also don't bother me if you are going to stick to your meta-gaming pile of schadenfreude via your "it's not CN, it's Something Awful" mercy boards.

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1285728761' post='2467570'] Come on now! How many anti-GOONS threads have there been over the last two weeks? It's getting a bit ridiculous and I'm only attempting to demonstrate this with a little humor. Maybe the problem with Planet Bob isn't raiding, but the refusal of some of you to lighten up. [/quote] Oh that's right, when you're the "man" on top it's everyone else who is taking things too seriously. What's wrong with a little harmless raiding, right? I do recall the VE-goons announcement where your alliance assured us we'd see a a kinder, more gentle goons. What we really see now is the same goons of old and a degenerated VE. It is pretty choice seeing the VE repeatedly sugar coat and otherwise try to explain away things for the goons in all of these threads.

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1285725196' post='2467511'] There, fixed that for you. [/quote] Wow, you got him there! Keep this up, and your level of skill at making puerile counterarguments just might someday rival Impero's. One thing I especially enjoy about reactions to announcements like this one is how they allow for so many duplicitous leaders to show their true characters. Like moths to a flame.

Sigrun, you have good timing. I've lately been curious if the Confederatio Aesir might ever be given peace terms that would be reasonable to you? It relates to this thread since it [i]appears[/i] from a distance that you are being run from Planet Bob in much the same way the goons&co want to get rid of Methrage and Jim. Just curious since alliances like the [s]goons[/s] [font="Comic Sans MS"]goons[/font], [s]genmay [/s]umbrella and [s]LUE [/s]MK used to cry so about running alliances from the planet, but that same sentiment is nonexistent at the national level. From my beatdown side of things, I'm not pleased watching nations I've warred go inactive and slip from the face of Planet Bob. Nations like ours have much more spirit than most of those we face it seems, but we also see a bigger picture than warring without any reasonable resolution or realistic end.

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285512501' post='2465164'] 1. Your statement regarding the war aid is false. Most of the waraid is coming from GOONS themselves. MK has been handing out a few packages but most of the aid is coming from other GOON nations. The aid from Umbrella is mostly techdeals with some bonus money. 2. Requesting sanctions from senators on rogue's is standard procedure since the beginning of CN. Everyone does it and it is widely accepted. 3. Everyone is weaker "on their own", The fact is that the claim that "GOONS is hiding behind their allies" is false because their are fighting most of their wars against the 2 organized rogue-groups themselves. [/quote] 1. Most of the targeted war aid is coming from their allies, not most alliance aid overall. As for the "tech deals" defense, they are not tech deals when the nations in question spend or lose most or all of the money fighting their wars. 2. Requesting sanctions on alliances that attack you with posted DoWs is not a standard procedure. 3. Pointing out that everyone is weaker alone sort of takes the wind out of your sails on this whole argument. Further, the greatest threat to the goons right now in the way of large nation infra loss is from Jim and he has 3 friends of goons on him.

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285510606' post='2465148'] This "Cowards you are hiding behind you are allies !" line is really ridicilous. 1. GOONS were attacked by Methrage and KimJong and are defending themselves. 2. GOONS are fighting them with all the nations they have in their range. 3. Some of their allies are helping out with the bigger rogue because GOONS only have one nation in it's range. [/quote] You've overlooked that most of the war aid going to all of their nations at war is coming from their allies. The GOONs have had to turn to Umbrella and the Mushroom Kingdom for their waves of war aid infusions to keep their lower level and nuked nations afloat. So, no it's not ridiculous at all. On their own, the goons would be in far worse shape than they are now over these few handfuls of micro-wars with KN and UOKMB. Let's not also forget the point of this thread and how the goons have had to request aid from their allied senators or convince those not-so-close senators to sanction Methrage, Jim and even UOKMB members, who also are clearly an alliance and posted accordingly, but likewise were hit with sanctions. The truth is the most damage done to KN and UOKMB thus far, has been from goon allies, not the goons themselves.

This illusion that keeps being repeated that players can't have fun or "be relevant" until they have x infra & x tech is a major part of the "problem." If you want to "be relevant" in or even not in an alliance, your activity and inspiration levels are far and away more important than your NS. If you just want to enjoy war for the sake of war or even for other reasons, there are plenty of lower and mid-level nations to keep you entertained, also allied or not.

What an awesome bloc...

[quote name='Iserlohn' timestamp='1285470219' post='2464832'] "Scientistic" is correct, in that it looks like what a scientist on TV might do, but is not actually scientific. [/quote] I understand you goons believe your intellects are superior to all others, but really? Imagine my surprise when I saw your proud public comprehension of this term was followed by your agreement with my use of it.