War Ends

[mythicknight]

Not reading 44 pages after coming back from vaca.

Yay peace? Or something.

[Andre27]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1283125012' post='2435123']
It isn't really talent, it is just all that they have. I can't really get annoyed by it though, I was warned in advance to show them no mercy and to not bother working with them by multiple people. I was even told in great detail how they would ridiculously try to turn this into some sort of victory. Like I said before, lesson learned.
[/quote]

It depends on your objectives in a war whether to call it a win or a loss. I'm pretty certain that NSO views this war as a setup to draw in their allies in a far larger war.
Since this did not happen and the damage from nuclear exchanges go both ways, i can see why NSO can view this as a victory.

They did take very heavy damage and had to write an admission of guilt, but being outnumbered as they were the damage was to be expected and the admission of guilt is worthless since no sane person will place any value on a forced "confession".

I'm neither friend or foe from the Sith, but it is plain to see why they claim victory and it would be a show of maturity if you can admit that.

Edit: typo corrected

Edited August 30, 2010 by Andre27

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1283134978' post='2435314']
Well no, that's not what you were saying the whole time. The point I made was that the TOP reps agreement forced some of their large nations to pay direct tech reps, in the same manner as the reps imposed on the two Orders. You said this was not correct.

Hey, at least with TOP, considering they were the ones who came up with this scheme, imposing this has some fairness. Neither Order has ever imposed a targetted reps agreement on anyone.


More or less because someone (Damsky I think) basically said NSO was lucky to escape with such light terms, considering their long history of curbstomps and the like.

At least, that was the argument.
[/quote]
[i]You[/i] said that the terms were targetted so that reps could only come from large nations on the lines of the NpO terms, which is a flat-out lie.

[Tautology]

Of course you can't stop a few NSO members wanting to believe that on some level they were victorious but it's much better for their mental health if they accept their defeat and move on.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1283160449' post='2435647']
It depends on your objectives in a war whether to call it a win or a loss. I'm pretty certain that NSO views this war as a setup to draw in their allies in a far larger war.
Since this did not happen and the damage from nuclear exchanges go both ways, i can see why NSO can view this as a victory.[/quote]
So just to be clear. The NSO figured that RoK wanted to start a larger war by attacking them, so instead of allowing that to happen, NSO simply lost a small(er) scale war. And that means they won the small scale war? See, that doesn't make sense at all. They may have achieved their goal of not having the war spread, but the argument cannot be made that they actually won this war.

[quote]They did take very heavy damage and had to write an admission of guilt, but being outnumbered as they were the damage was to be expected and the admission of guilt is worthless since no sane person will place any value on a forced "confession". [/quote]
The confession is not what clinches that they lost. This line does, "New Sith Order hereby announces its surrender". Did you see a similar statement come from the RoK coalition? If not, the NSO lost.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Captain Flinders

[Andre27]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1283166313' post='2435666']
So just to be clear. The NSO figured that RoK wanted to start a larger war by attacking them, so instead of allowing that to happen, NSO simply lost a small(er) scale war. And that means they won the small scale war? See, that doesn't make sense at all. They may have achieved their goal of not having the war spread, but the argument cannot be made that they actually won this war.

[/quote]

It's looking at the larger picture. By achieving their objectives they "won" their war.

[Felix von Agnu]

Wow. It looks like this war was win-win. Don't understand why everyone is complaining so much.

[Andre27]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1283168558' post='2435679']
Wow. It looks like this war was win-win. Don't understand why everyone is complaining so much.
[/quote]

From what i see, the complaining is mostly from ROK and allies who refuse to admit that the results of this war can be viewed as a (small) victory for NSO.
Strategic thinking F.T.W

[Tautology]

I'm sure your motives are pure, Andre27, but you're not doing NSO any favors. Let them accept it and deal with it.

[Thunder Strike]

NSO lost, get over it.

[shahenshah]

For people discussing about the terms: NSO had already accepted there mistake, NSO had already de-facto apologized to TENE in "My bad" thread..you wanted humility out of them...and you thought you'll burst open the door, throw insults at there leadership during the peace talks, lead them to beleive 'we'll walk away in 2 weeks' and then try and humiliate them and expect humility in return? Seriously?

Edited August 30, 2010 by shahenshah

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1283168502' post='2435678']
It's looking at the larger picture. By achieving their objectives they "won" their war.
[/quote]
Or they achieved their objectives and still lost the war. Sounds about right to me.

[Andre27]

I'd say both sides have won in their own way.
Ragnarok and allies soundly defeated NSO, but NSO has managed to keep the conflict small and its allies out which they consider a victory.

It's a simply analyses. Overall the real loser in this entire conflict was diplomacy, because if that had been given a [i]real[/i] chance then this whole conflict would not have occurred and all involved alliances would have been spared a great deal of damage.

[Thunder Strike]

NSO keeping it as a smaller conflict was something within their own control. To achieve something that is within your control is neither difficult nor much of an achievement so doesn't warrant being called a victory.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1283168867' post='2435685']
From what i see, the complaining is mostly from ROK and allies who refuse to admit that the results of this war can be viewed as a (small) victory for NSO.
Strategic thinking F.T.W
[/quote]
I fought, and I'm not annoyed at all. If NSO want to puff up their chests and act like they won, fine. Personally, I don't see why I should get my undies in a bunch over it.

EDIT: If anything NSO is probably considering Rok and Co getting so flustered a victory.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Felix von Agnu

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Thunder Strike' timestamp='1283170372' post='2435697']
NSO keeping it as a smaller conflict was something within their own control. To achieve something that is within your control is neither difficult nor much of an achievement so doesn't warrant being called a victory.
[/quote]

So you're saying that the forces of Ragnarok et al smashing NSO, despite the unproportionate numbers, wasn't something within their own control and it was a difficult or a big achievement and that's why you call it a victory?

EDIT: sometimes I can't write

EDIT #2: for some people's reading problems XD

[quote]<GearHead[TFD]> I still don't get it...somehow
<GearHead[TFD]>
<GearHead[TFD]> Are you on NSO's side? XD
<Lusitan_[TFD]> not really
<Lusitan_[TFD]> he just said that NSO had no right to call it a victory because it was easy for them to keep their allies out
<Lusitan_[TFD]> I am saying it must have been really difficult for all those alliances to curbstomp NSO if that's why they are calling it a victory then
<GearHead[TFD]> well then why don't you just say so [/quote]

Edited August 30, 2010 by Lusitan

[GearHead]

Lusitan thinks he's funny... ^

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1283171607' post='2435705']
So you're saying that the forces of Ragnarok et al smashing NSO, despite the unproportionate numbers, wasn't something within their own control and it was a difficult or a big achievement and that's why you call it a victory?

EDIT: sometimes I can't write

EDIT #2: for some people's reading problems XD
[/quote]

NSO had a Deathstar.

Also the word you are looking for is disproportionate, not unproportionate.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1283171202' post='2435703']
I fought, and I'm not annoyed at all. If NSO want to puff up their chests and act like they won, fine. Personally, I don't see why I should get my undies in a bunch over it.

EDIT: If anything NSO is probably considering Rok and Co getting so flustered a victory.
[/quote]

You get it. Too many other people don't, which is amusing.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1283171202' post='2435703']
I fought, and I'm not annoyed at all. If NSO want to puff up their chests and act like they won, fine. Personally, I don't see why I should get my undies in a bunch over it.

EDIT: If anything NSO is probably considering Rok and Co getting so flustered a victory.
[/quote]

50 tech says Vladimir can write an essay about how NSO won this war.

[Corinan]

Hello neighbors! Why are we still discussing the New Sith Orders triumphant victory over RoK and Friends? I do believe the time has come to put this matter to rest. Now could you be mine, won't you be my neighbor? Have a wonderful day!

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1283174707' post='2435734']
Hello neighbors! Why are we still discussing the New Sith Orders triumphant victory over RoK and Friends? I do believe the time has come to put this matter to rest. Now could you be mine, won't you be my neighbor? Have a wonderful day!
[/quote]

Corinan as Mr. Rogers? I think I may have to laugh myself to death... in a good way,

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1283169651' post='2435692']
Or they achieved their objectives and still lost the war. Sounds about right to me.
[/quote]
All heil ze Almighty Flinders o/ Keeper of all that righteous, Knower of all that is known, Master of all that is Right.

I'm very sorry our views are different. You might enjoy things more from a more "outside view" if you catch my drift.


[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1283171202' post='2435703']
I fought, and I'm not annoyed at all. If NSO want to puff up their chests and act like they won, fine. Personally, I don't see why I should get my undies in a bunch over it.

EDIT: If anything NSO is probably considering Rok and Co getting so flustered a victory.
[/quote]
If more people were like you, this thread really wouldn't be still going. Personally, we find it quite amusing how easy it is to get the others riled. All their claims of 'we're not bawwin' .. haha .. There's more posts in the last few pages of everyone else with their serious 'YOU LOST WAHHH ACCEPT IT' crap than there is of us poking fun at them.


[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1283175229' post='2435739']
Corinan as Mr. Rogers? I think I may have to laugh myself to death... in a good way,
[/quote]

I had a hard time keeping a straight face making that for him

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1283165967' post='2435663']
[i]You[/i] said that the terms were targetted so that reps could only come from large nations on the lines of the NpO terms, which is a flat-out lie.
[/quote]
No, that's not what I said.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1282946875' post='2433136']
Only Pacifica, Polaris and The Order of the Paradox have ever had to pay out targetted reps designed to drain large nations of tech.
[/quote]
I said the reps were designed to drain large nations of tech. I didn't say they were exactly the same as the Polar terms.

[Ivan Moldavi]

I do enjoy the crybabying from the "victors" in light of their comments immediately after the peace was reached.