Objective of the War on NSO?

[Heft]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281714232' post='2414381']
Can I still [i]hope[/i] it's true. Pweeze?

(Man, you're the worst evil overlord-type ever.)
[/quote]
It was expressed that they did not like our behavior on the forums, and at around the same time the discussion about terms which they had previously not expressed any problems with basically ceased without any real explanation. So it was never outright said "we're removing the terms because of your posts" but it was the closest thing to a "reason" we could find.

Which strikes me as odd since I've thought we've actually been fairly civil and cordial on the forums throughout this whole war, all things considered. But yes, we are going to defend ourselves. They did declare war on us, after all.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1281712806' post='2414347']
I haven't heard this stated by anyone who actually meant it, but I hope it's true.
[/quote]

Better to address rumors than let them build traction eh.

Edited August 13, 2010 by shahenshah

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281713112' post='2414353']
While it has been pointed out that we find it counter-productive for the Sith to be engaged in peace talks with us, all the while bashing us and making it out like we are in the wrong ... it isn't the reason peace talks have stalled.

I find the repeated posts stating that it is the reason to be the worst spin I have possibly ever seen.
[/quote]
Well, the question is: do such posts really bother you? Last I remember, one of the precedents from the last war is that posts don't matter at all unless they are coming from .gov and are clearly marked as official posts.

And since 2006, apologies and the like have been shown to be as long-lasting and heartfelt as that alliance is on the weaker side, so I wonder why you would want NSO to concede something as a pre-condition for talking surrender when you know this isn't the honest opinion of NSO. Or do you plan to war them until they [i]honestly[/i] feel sorry?


So by any definition, if peace is what you want to happen now or very soon, it's pretty much completely in your power to give it. Just when you don't want to give it now would a delay really make sense in my opinion.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1281714676' post='2414393']
Well, the question is: do such posts really bother you? Last I remember, one of the precedents from the last war is that posts don't matter at all unless they are coming from .gov and are clearly marked as official posts.

And since 2006, apologies and the like have been shown to be as long-lasting and heartfelt as that alliance is on the weaker side, so I wonder why you would want NSO to concede something as a pre-condition for talking surrender when you know this isn't the honest opinion of NSO. Or do you plan to war them until they [i]honestly[/i] feel sorry?


So by any definition, if peace is what you want to happen now or very soon, it's pretty much completely in your power to give it. Just when you don't want to give it now would a delay really make sense in my opinion.
[/quote]


They don't "offend" me, no ... they are just counter-productive. And yes, they come from members of government. Not that it matters since it isn't the reason talks have stalled, though based on Heft's post I can understand why they may think that.

Lastly, I don't really care if the NSO are sorry or not. I find public apologies, or apologies of any sort for that matter, to be completely useless.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281429338' post='2409360']
Greetings,

So what is the objective of the war on NSO now that it has started? What are your opinions on how this will end?
[/quote]

Kicking the crap out of an alliance RoK doesn't like is partly the objective. But also I think the most prominent objective is that they are reinforcing the generally held principal to not aid those at war with themselves or their protectorates. The smallest goal might be a strategic angle for keeping down those on the "other" side of the web.

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281429338' post='2409360']
There are two important questions IMO:

1. How will it end?
2. When will it end?
[/quote]

1. I don't know.
2. I don't know.

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281429338' post='2409360']
Do you feel how this concludes may help people manifest assumptions as to the motives of the war? Harsher terms and a longer war will lead to people believing there was more to this than just what is on the OWF, a resolution revolving around the original incident and of that scale would counter that sort of PR and the general 'Ebil Hegemony' etc.

What do you think would TENE want as it is the original grieved party at one side? I will assume TENE will have the greatest say in the resolution of this conflict than even RoK et al.

Anyway, what are your opinions?
[/quote]

Those who set the terms generally control the tone of the final outcome which affects to a degree the attitudes of the participants and observers. And since most leaders know that, the end game will be designed with that in mind, perhaps a combination of strategic reps favoring a good PR stance. I suspect RoK will give considerable reps preference to TENE who will request something light so in the end RoK will look more legitimate in their action and TENE will show a forgiving, mature side - desirable for a smaller alliance.

[caligula]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281713781' post='2414367']
Oh, we aren't? Did I miss something in the past few days? Didn't we just send you a list of negotiable terms which included "NSO surrenders"?

To be clear, we are not the ones stalling this peace process with our obstinacy.
[/quote]
[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281713963' post='2414371']
We have not yet offered anything that explicitly says "we surrender." We also have not yet refused any such term, either.
[/quote]

This was good.
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a long saga though.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='caligula' timestamp='1281717632' post='2414451']
This was good.
Hopefully this doesn't turn into a long saga though.
[/quote]

The amount of contribution you are putting into this conversation is profound and stunning.

[Tyranus]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281714986' post='2414399']Lastly, I don't really care if the NSO are sorry or not. I find public apologies, or apologies of any sort for that matter, to be completely useless.
[/quote]

The Cyberverse should have more people like you.

I think that it will get to a point where everyone will talk about the disbandment of NSO and conspiracy theories about bloc X rolling bloc Y, then suddenly NSO and the gangbangers will white peace out.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Rhobar II

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281714986' post='2414399']
They don't "offend" me, no ... they are just counter-productive. And yes, they come from members of government. Not that it matters since it isn't the reason talks have stalled, though based on Heft's post I can understand why they may think that.

Lastly, I don't really care if the NSO are sorry or not. I find public apologies, or apologies of any sort for that matter, to be completely useless.
[/quote]
Well, good to hear that last line, we need definitely less pseudo-moralists, not more. That said, I sincerely hope that any obstacles to peace can be put away sooner than later, I think this whole "war" wasn't worth being started in the first place, and much less fought for more than a minute or two.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281712402' post='2414338']
The Sith aren't interested in surrendering.




I do not like or demand reps, to be honest. I personally have not requested reps since the NoCB War, which was well over two years ago.
[/quote]

Then I guess my info was wrong. From what I have heard though from Sith is that they are gladly willing to pay reps and let you do whatever to the rogue at this point. I had also heard that RoK told NSO through proxy that they'd be peaced out after 2 weeks if NSO was willing to pay 12 mil in reps. Then RoK rescinded the offer. Is that rumor also false?

Edited August 13, 2010 by Omniscient1

[Voytek]

Hey guys I heard a thing. Is it true?????????????

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

My humble opinions as a former member or Rok

Rok likes to fight(its fun who doesn't like to war) Rok doesn't like NSO, NSO finally gave Rok an excuse to fight, so Rok took them up on it.

I feel like this lasts maybe another week, unless Hoo and NSO's gov engage in a egotistical battle of wills, but then whats the chance of that happening?

Keep dancing Hoo, can I suggest the Bus Driver?

Edit:whoops I didnt read all of these posts, it looks like they have engaged... God help us all!!!

Edited August 14, 2010 by Sweeeeet Ronny D

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Sweeeeet Ronny D' timestamp='1281746246' post='2415110']Keep dancing Hoo, can I suggest the Bus Driver?[/quote]


I am partial to the Robot or the Shopping Cart ... you know this, man!

[bigwoody]

The main goal, for this war to get out of hand and go global, already fizzled. RoK will get its hits on NSO until they get bored and give white peace or (more likely) token reps.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1281762926' post='2415418']
The main goal, for this war to get out of hand and go global, already fizzled. RoK will get its hits on NSO until they get bored and give white peace or (more likely) token reps.
[/quote]

Reps will be six million dollars. You heard it here first.

[Daeryon]

Admin only knows.

RoK and friends are either just doing it to bully NSO, or were hoping for a much bigger war which seems won't develop without them blatantly attacking other alliances (which really means they wanted to bully an even larger group...with even more of their friends).

If this is just a bullying of NSO it'll be over in about a week when RoK and all get bored of wasting money and resources attacking the NSO...who are no doubt ready to end the war at any time.

If RoK and friends are desperate for a large-scale war....they'll come up with some half-baked excuse to have their other allies launch attacks at as of yet uninvolved alliances....so they can bully on a larger scale. I'd imagine something akin to "NPO was naughty" would be about the level of validity to the CB issued.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Daeryon

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281788782' post='2415617']
Admin only knows.

RoK and friends are either just doing it to bully NSO, or were hoping for a much bigger war which seems won't develop without them blatantly attacking other alliances (which really means they wanted to bully an even larger group...with even more of their friends).

If this is just a bullying of NSO it'll be over in about a week when RoK and all get bored of wasting money and resources attacking the NSO...who are no doubt ready to end the war at any time.

If RoK and friends are desperate for a large-scale war....they'll come up with some half-baked excuse to have their other allies launch attacks at as of yet uninvolved alliances....so they can bully on a larger scale. I'd imagine something akin to "NPO was naughty" would be about the level of validity to the CB issued.
[/quote]
Oh really, How do you know this? Do you have any factual evidence to back this claim up?

[Daeryon]

You are asking for factual evidence of their bullying?

Look at the stats. This "war" is a joke.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281789587' post='2415624']
You are asking for factual evidence of their bullying?

Look at the stats. This "war" is a joke.
[/quote]

How are stats a determination of whether or not an alliance is being a "bully"?

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1281810536' post='2415872']
How are stats a determination of whether or not an alliance is being a "bully"?
[/quote]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bully
bul·ly 1 (bl)
n. pl. bul·lies
1. A person who is [u][b]habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.[/b][/u]
2. A hired ruffian; a thug.
3. A pimp.
4. Archaic A fine person.
5. Archaic A sweetheart.
v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies
v.tr.
1. [u][b]To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner.[/b][/u] See Synonyms at intimidate.
2. To make (one's way) aggressively.
v.intr.
1. [u][b]To behave like a bully.[/b][/u]
2. [u][b]To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation[/b][/u]: "They bully into line at the gas pump" (Martin Gottfried).

The stats clearly bear out that NSO is smaller and weaker than the forces attacking it.

You if can't deduce that from the stats, I don't know what to say.

RoK by itself is much larger than NSO. Did they even fight them alone? No, they went and brought 4 of their friends to help roll NSO.

Bullying. It's what's going on.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Daeryon

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281810748' post='2415874']
[url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bully"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bully[/url]
bul·ly 1 (bl)
n. pl. bul·lies
1. A person who is [u][b]habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.[/b][/u]
2. A hired ruffian; a thug.
3. A pimp.
4. Archaic A fine person.
5. Archaic A sweetheart.
v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies
v.tr.
1. [u][b]To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner.[/b][/u] See Synonyms at intimidate.
2. To make (one's way) aggressively.
v.intr.
1. [u][b]To behave like a bully.[/b][/u]
2. [u][b]To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation[/b][/u]: "They bully into line at the gas pump" (Martin Gottfried).

The stats clearly bear out that NSO is smaller and weaker than the forces attacking it.

You if can't deduce that from the stats, I don't know what to say.
[/quote]

So how has Rok been habitually cruel or overbearing? Note your own definition has a qualifier in there that dictates it isn't always someone smaller/weaker. In reality, it's actions not statistics that determine if someone is a "bully".

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1281811127' post='2415879']
So how has Rok been habitually cruel or overbearing? Note your own definition has a qualifier in there that dictates it isn't always someone smaller/weaker. In reality, it's actions not statistics that determine if someone is a "bully".
[/quote]

This is the second alliance they've done this to that I've known of.

How many more weaker alliances do they need to gang up on?

Of course, I understand your position: denial.

Carry on.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1281811499' post='2415885']
This is the second alliance they've done this to that I've known of.

How many more weaker alliances do they need to gang up on?

Of course, I understand your position: denial.

Carry on.
[/quote]

It's not denial. The word "bully" in CN is a buzzword people use when they cannot grasp on to other logical arguments effectively. Every alliance entering a war wants to ensure victory with the least damage possible, it's an effective strategy and I do not fault Rok for using it. Almost every alliance declaring a war has done it, especially TPF.

[shahenshah]

[quote][17:25] <pezstar> NSO would like a meeting with RoK. I'll be mediating it unless you folks have an objection. Can you gather your folks at some point and head to #stafa?
[17:27] <RoK Official> Sadly the only RC on are myself and Rampage.
[17:27] <pezstar> ok.
[17:27] <RoK Official> The only person that would be authorized to negotiate is Hoo and he isnt around right now. (I edited the last three words of this to exclude personal information)
[17:28] <pezstar> Ok. It doesn't have to be right now. I'll be around all evening, and the NSO folks probably will too
[17:29] <RoK Official> I will post this in the govt channel
[17:29] <pezstar> Awesome[/quote]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281312648' post='2405356']
This was 2 hours before the war declaration. If RoK had been interested in anything other than war, they'd have at least popped by to attempt to talk about it. Instead, they declared. Clearly, they wanted war.
[/quote]

Finally, some more log dumps.

Edited August 14, 2010 by shahenshah

[Sandwich Controversy]

That's not really a fair thing to say. RoK was going to declare at the "normal time", but then NSO started going into peace mode so it had to be moved up a few hours.