Objective of the War on NSO?

[Kalasin]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281431813' post='2409404']
Why do you think its far too early? Assuming the terms that you set are willing to be met?
[/quote]

He's not setting the terms.

[Banksy]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281431813' post='2409404']
Why do you think its far too early? Assuming the terms that you set are willing to be met?
[/quote]
Because we haven't been able to attack the NPO yet, obviously.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281431868' post='2409407']
He's not setting the terms.
[/quote]
Or am I? Dance, Hoo!

[Van Hoo III]

Obviously the war will end once the NPO honors their treaty and is then completely and totally dismantled per our master plan.

Heft is also a secret agent planted by Ragnarok and our entire conversation was staged. What Heft didn't realize is that I am a secret agent as well. I was planted by the NPO in an elaborate scheme to expose the SuperFriends and their dastardly schemes.

We would have gotten away with it all too, if it weren't for that darned HeroOfTime fella.

What? If you guys are going to sit and be ridiculous, then I may as well too.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1281431945' post='2409410']
Or am I? Dance, Hoo!
[/quote]

[b][color="#FF0000"]*Van Hoo III[/color][/b] does the robot.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281431868' post='2409407']
He's not setting the terms.
[/quote]

I know, hence used the word 'assuming' and wanted his opinion.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281431992' post='2409411']
Obviously the war will end once the NPO honors their treaty and is then completely and totally dismantled per our master plan.

Heft is also a secret agent planted by Ragnarok and our entire conversation was staged. What Heft didn't realize is that I am a secret agent as well. I was planted by the NPO in an elaborate scheme to expose the SuperFriends and their dastardly schemes.

We would have gotten away with it all too, if it weren't for that darned HeroOfTime fella.

[b]What? If you guys are going to sit and be ridiculous, then I may as well too. [/b]
[/quote]

Telling the truth is never ridiculous. Good job on the spying btw, SF seems to have no idea.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281431992' post='2409411']
Obviously the war will end once the NPO honors their treaty and is then completely and totally dismantled per our master plan.

Heft is also a secret agent planted by Ragnarok and our entire conversation was staged. What Heft didn't realize is that I am a secret agent as well. I was planted by the NPO in an elaborate scheme to expose the SuperFriends and their dastardly schemes.

We would have gotten away with it all too, if it weren't for that darned HeroOfTime fella.

What? If you guys are going to sit and be ridiculous, then I may as well too.
[/quote]

You didn't need to go with NPO or do Robot dance to not actually discuss the topics under deliberation

Edited August 10, 2010 by shahenshah

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281432381' post='2409416']
You didn't need to bring NPO or do Robot dance to dodge the topics under discussion.
[/quote]


There isn't anything to dodge. You guys are not only being ridiculous with your wild conspiracies, but typically surrender discussions take place between the alliances involved and in private.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect me to crack jokes and do the robot at this point.

Also, babyjesus told me to dance.

Also also: Don't you ninja edit, it totally ruined my response.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[Kalasin]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1281431863' post='2409406']
The funny thing is, pretty much the only thing you have left to make this point with is viceroys[/quote]

.... viceroys, removals from government, forcible changes to the charters of defeated alliances, colossal reparations imposed for a casus belli as minor as 'you tech dealed with a person on eternal zero infrastructure without realising it', bullying, eternal wars, attacks on alliances which are still under terms......

SuperFriends and C&G aren't going to do this sort of thing in the near future, in my opinion. Certainly not to NSO.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281432659' post='2409419']
.... viceroys, removals from government, forcible changes to the charters of defeated alliances, colossal reparations imposed for a casus belli as minor as 'you tech dealed with a person on eternal zero infrastructure without realising it', bullying, eternal wars, attacks on alliances which are still under terms......

SuperFriends and C&G aren't going to do this sort of thing in the near future, in my opinion. Certainly not to NSO.
[/quote]

I'm going to disband them. Where have you been?

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281432659' post='2409419']
.... viceroys, removals from government, forcible changes to the charters of defeated alliances, colossal reparations imposed for a casus belli as minor as 'you tech dealed with a person on eternal zero infrastructure without realising it', bullying, eternal wars, attacks on alliances which are still under terms......

SuperFriends and C&G aren't going to do this sort of thing in the near future, in my opinion. Certainly not to NSO.
[/quote]
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62524 good thing for you that you said in the near future. Well played.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281432549' post='2409418']
There isn't anything to dodge. You guys are not only being ridiculous with your wild conspiracies, but typically surrender discussions take place between the alliances involved and in private.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect me to crack jokes and do the robot at this point.

Also, babyjesus told me to dance.
[/quote]

Half isnt even here in the thread yet and you're talking about wild conspiracies? You're being ridiculous! Anyway, these are not surrender discussions, rather a discussion on possibilities of how the conflict will end and what perceptions would manifest out of that.

Edited August 10, 2010 by shahenshah

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281433098' post='2409426']
Half isnt even here in the thread yet and you're talking about wild conspiracies? You're being ridiculous!
[/quote]


I've got nothing. Good show!

[Ashoka the Great]

The point of the war is to give everyone the opportunity to start their own thread about it, obviously.

[Banksy]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1281433068' post='2409425']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62524 good thing for you that you said in the near future. Well played.
[/quote]
Funny, looks like Echelon hasn't been rolled for Caffine being put in government.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1281433068' post='2409425']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62524 good thing for you that you said in the near future. Well played.
[/quote]

Please reread the terms. He wasn't removed from government (assuming this particular clause is why you linked the Echelon terms.) Feel the full power of copy/paste:

10. Should Caffine1 rejoin Echelon he is permanently banned from holding any government position within the alliance.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281432659' post='2409419']
removals from government
[/quote]

Already done

[quote]
forcible changes to the charters of defeated alliances
[/quote]

There are forcible changes to alliance legal documents (Moldavi Doctrine for instance) and getting rid of treaties is commonplace. There is nothing about a charter specifically that holds some form of special importance, unless you go for sentimental value.

[quote]
colossal reparations imposed for a casus belli as minor as 'you tech dealed with a person on eternal zero infrastructure without realising it'
[/quote]

[i]Every[/i] aggressor will claim their CB is not minor and is worth whatever punishment they attach to it. If you acknowledge the subjectivity of that, the reparations imposed in the past year and a half have been so colossal that they make the ones you reference look like dwarfs in comparison.


[quote]bullying
[/quote]

This shouldn't even be mentioned. More than half of major alliances have employed "bullying" as a tactic in their lifetime.

[quote]eternal wars[/quote]

No war is eternal, merely very long. And there have been several very long wars.

[quote]attacks on alliances which are still under terms[/quote]

Attacking an alliance for "violations" during a war before terms even begun takes the cherry from attacking for violations during them.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281433391' post='2409430']
Please reread the terms. He wasn't removed from government (assuming this particular clause is why you linked the Echelon terms.) Feel the full power of copy/paste:

10. Should Caffine1 rejoin Echelon he is permanently banned from holding any government position within the alliance.
[/quote]
Despite having previously to my membership in NPO being Echelon's MOFA, I'm quite confident that your knowledge of the events far surpasses mine, many apologies.

[Letum]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281433391' post='2409430']
Please reread the terms. He wasn't removed from government (assuming this particular clause is why you linked the Echelon terms.) Feel the full power of copy/paste:

10. Should Caffine1 rejoin Echelon he is permanently banned from holding any government position within the alliance.
[/quote]

You're grasping onto a minor difference and pretending it somehow changes the actual effect of the policy. That would be akin to mandating "International Inspectors" to "assist" an alliance with "internal policies" and pretending they are not viceroys.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281433413' post='2409431']
Already done
[/quote]
Where exactly?
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281433413' post='2409431']
There are forcible changes to alliance legal documents (Moldavi Doctrine for instance) and getting rid of treaties is commonplace. There is nothing about a charter specifically that holds some form of special importance, unless you go for sentimental value.
[/quote]
The charter is the founding document of an alliance. It is where it derives its sovereign power. Any alteration is an insult.

EDIT: To add, you forced MK to remove the part from its charter about nuclear first strikes. This is a clear example of a 'non-sentimental' aspect of a charter.
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281433413' post='2409431']
[i]Every[/i] aggressor will claim their CB is not minor and is worth whatever punishment they attach to it. If you acknowledge the subjectivity of that, the reparations imposed in the past year and a half have been so colossal that they make the ones you reference look like dwarfs in comparison.
[/quote]
Ho hum. I'll leave this to some other thread :v
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281433413' post='2409431']
No war is eternal, merely very long. And there have been several very long wars.
[/quote]
I agree on this one. But the NPO and Q did intend to extend wars for ""eternity"", which neither SF nor C&G has attempted to do. If Karma hadn't come along, the NPO would still be at war with FAN. They had stated that it was their intention to continue that war. No "SG" alliance has ever wanted or attempted to do that.
[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281433413' post='2409431']
Attacking an alliance for "violations" during a war before terms even begun takes the cherry from attacking for violations during them.
[/quote]
I don't even know what you are talking about here.

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1281433742' post='2409435']
Despite having previously to my membership in NPO being Echelon's MOFA, I'm quite confident that your knowledge of the events far surpasses mine, many apologies.
[/quote]
Then you'll be aware that Caffine was not in echelon at the time, thereby falsifying your claim that anyone has been removed from government.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Banksy

[Letum]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1281434233' post='2409442']
Where exactly?
[/quote]

addressed this above

[quote]
The charter is the founding document of an alliance. It is where it derives its sovereign power. Any alteration is an insult.

EDIT: To add, you forced MK to remove the part from its charter about nuclear first strikes. This is a clear example of a 'non-sentimental' aspect of a charter.
[/quote]

I see the forced removal of the red team sovereignty as the same thing as altering the charter. It is a core document that lasted more than most alliances in the world; it not being an actual part of the charter is a mere technicality (because we like to keep our charter very short). Don't expect me to believe that had it been included, it would not have been removed.


[quote]
I agree on this one. But the NPO and Q did intend to extend wars for ""eternity"", which neither SF nor C&G has attempted to do. If Karma hadn't come along, the NPO would still be at war with FAN. They had stated that it was their intention to continue that war. No "SG" alliance has ever wanted or attempted to do that.
[/quote]

You do realise that FAN had been offered peace before, but did not like the terms? And that those very same terms were a part of the first Karma proposal to NPO? (nations coming out of peace mode for two weeks thing)



You seem to think that wrapping something in a pretty ribbon changes the entire package. It doesn't matter if the difference between two acts is something minor such as the difference between "banning" or "removing" and one legal document or another, a year of one form of suffering or another. The acts still have the same broad effect, and the same "moral" value. Don't pretend that the ex-Karma alliances are somehow "better" because they changed some obscure little detail that has no meaning on the actual tangible impact of their policies.

[Dexomega]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1281429807' post='2409370']
SF aren't NPO.
[/quote]
I could say many things here, but that's a shaky bridge that I don't really want to cross.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1281433742' post='2409435']
Despite having previously to my membership in NPO being Echelon's MOFA, I'm quite confident that your knowledge of the events far surpasses mine, many apologies.
[/quote]

Argument from authority much?

[Banksy]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281434701' post='2409444']
The acts still have the same broad effect, and the same "moral" value. [/quote]
The NPO lecturing on morality. Oh, what a world we find ourselves in.