Bernkastel Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Congratulations Invicta on this fantastic treaty. Sadly, much like the MDAP you both held, its useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmage768 Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Bernkastel' date='04 June 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1275711375' post='2324163'] Congratulations Invicta on this fantastic treaty. Sadly, much like the MDAP you both held, its useless. [/quote] Coming from TIO, who are part of an ODP bloc...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpdogg Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Good move UPN. o/ Peggy Sue et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 A wise choice indeed. (by UPN) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='04 June 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1275710037' post='2324118'] Has a MADP ever dropped to a ODP quicker than the one between these two? [/quote] I believe so, although I'd have to look up the dates. In my view it's kind of insulting to end up having an ODP with someone you used to have a MADP with. Seems as if all the old partnerships are disappearing. Only really GOD-VE left. So, presumably Peggy Sue runs the show rather differently from Altheus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Lord Brendan' date='05 June 2010 - 05:40 AM' timestamp='1275712782' post='2324199'] Only really GOD-VE left. [/quote] TFD-NATO, living the dream since June 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='darkmage768' date='05 June 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1275710717' post='2324136'] I do find Invicta’s spin on this funny. They weren’t the ones who initiated the downgrade. UPN did. [/quote] LOL of course it was it started when UPN left them and CDT allies hung out to dry in the last war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Best of luck to our allies in Invicta and to UPN as well. Surely this is just a foreshadowing to the treaty we all know is coming: iFOK and Invicta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Biscuit Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='KainIIIC' date='05 June 2010 - 01:25 AM' timestamp='1275715505' post='2324273'] Surely this is just a foreshadowing to the treaty we all know is coming: iFOK and Invicta! [/quote] The idea of that is nothing short of interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Buds The Man' date='04 June 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1275715028' post='2324263'] LOL of course it was it started when UPN left them and CDT allies hung out to dry in the last war. [/quote] I could have sworn several CDT alliances came in to defend Invicta. I am sure you are correct. These links are just clever lies placed in the past to make you seem incorrect. WP DoW on iFok http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80458 USN DoW on iFOK and FCO http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80536 Edit: Oops I said several didn't I? Nearly forgot Menotah Menotah DoW on Stickmen http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80877 Edited June 5, 2010 by darkfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Buds The Man' date='05 June 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1275715028' post='2324263'] LOL of course it was it started when UPN left them and CDT allies hung out to dry in the last war.[/quote] UPN had multiple treaty commitments. When TOP et al attacked the ODN, they were obligated to defend us, but that would mean that had to attack some of their allies direct treaty partners. UPN couldn't meet all of its commitments, so it choose neutrality. It was a casualty of circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigyNL Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Wow, as an ex UPNer im sad to see this. There used to be such a good relationship between UPN and Invicta, closer then man and wife, closer then bloodbrothers and closer then 2 objects glued together. Its a sad day to see the relationship being on this low of a level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Best of luck to both Invicta and UPN. Good to see treaty levels taken seriously now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='darkfox' date='04 June 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1275720384' post='2324295'] I could have sworn several CDT alliances came in to defend Invicta. I am sure you are correct. These links are just clever lies placed in the past to make you seem incorrect. WP DoW on iFok http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80458 USN DoW on iFOK and FCO http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80536 Edit: Oops I said several didn't I? Nearly forgot Menotah Menotah DoW on Stickmen http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80877 [/quote] I believe bud meant UPN as an individual alliance left people out to dry not that CDT as a whole did, at least that is what I get out of reading Bud's post. You seem rather defensive though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkfox Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='chefjoe' date='05 June 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1275723063' post='2324326'] I believe bud meant UPN as an individual alliance left people out to dry not that CDT as a whole did, at least that is what I get out of reading Bud's post. You seem rather defensive though... [/quote] You know what. I did read it wrong. I apologize Bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Well, it's better than a straight cancellation, but not by much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 We're here for you, UPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 Real friends dont position themselves in the middle of the treaty web to get out of a fight they will probably lose. UPN were only friends when convenient. A treaty with UPN should always be considered optional especially if you are on the smaller side of the war no matter how big a friend they claim to be. So if they treat MADPs as optional why not make them optional. They seem to be slithering over to the other side now anyway. o/ Invicta, an ally who actually defends their friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='05 June 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1275728982' post='2324381'] Real friends dont position themselves in the middle of the treaty web to get out of a fight they will probably lose. UPN were only friends when convenient. A treaty with UPN should always be considered optional especially if you are on the smaller side of the war no matter how big a friend they claim to be. So if they treat MADPs as optional why not make them optional. They seem to be slithering over to the other side now anyway. o/ Invicta, an ally who actually defends their friends.[/quote] Indeed. I'm sure UPN intentionally asked TOP and IRON to directly attack the ODN, thereby forcing them to stay neutral and avoid the war! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='darkmage768' date='05 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1275711696' post='2324171'] Coming from TIO, who are part of an ODP bloc...... [/quote] Come talk to me in #TIO, and I'll happily explain why Sirius is not useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Banksy' date='05 June 2010 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1275729423' post='2324390'] Indeed. I'm sure UPN intentionally asked TOP and IRON to directly attack the ODN, thereby forcing them to stay neutral and avoid the war! [/quote] Reaching a bit, the MADP was with Invicta & they were absoutely required to defend invicta or attack with them. Instead they chickened out using some bs excuse. Would you like to try again? ODN is hardly a shining example of standing by allies too. Maybe you two can sign an optional MADP. Edited June 5, 2010 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='05 June 2010 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1275728982' post='2324381'] Real friends dont position themselves in the middle of the treaty web to get out of a fight they will probably lose. UPN were only friends when convenient. A treaty with UPN should always be considered optional especially if you are on the smaller side of the war no matter how big a friend they claim to be. So if they treat MADPs as optional why not make them optional. They seem to be slithering over to the other side now anyway. o/ Invicta, an ally who actually defends their friends. [/quote] From what I've seen on the ODN boards (admittedly I've only been around since April), we ODNistas genuinely like UPN, and I think the treaty was signed on the basis of real friendship. Perhaps a case could be made that it was a poor choice to allow oneself to be torn between two groups, but I think it's unlikely that it was done deliberately. It's probably more that UPN signed with people it's really friends with, rather than adopting a foreign policy based on realpolitik. I'm sure UPN aren't the only ones to be guilty of such a thing. If you'd like to discuss the UPN/ODN treaty, or any other treaties which UPN has with our side (I'm not sure if there are any, I'm sorry) come by #ODN sometime and drop one of our government a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='05 June 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1275730106' post='2324394'] Reaching a bit, the MADP was with Invicta & they were absoutely required to defend invicta or attack with them. Instead they chickened out using some bs excuse. Would you like to try again? [/quote] No, I think you can try again. I believe the "BS excuse" was the fact that the ODN was in a war before invicta. Thus, UPN were required to defend us again their allies allies in IRON and TOP. Unless of course somehow the Invicta MADP was activated before invicta went to war.... [quote name='Alterego' date='05 June 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1275730106' post='2324394']ODN is hardly a shining example of standing by allies too. Maybe you two can sign an optional MADP.[/quote]What a come back, where do you come up with these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Banksy' date='05 June 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1275730908' post='2324399'] No, I think you can try again. I believe the "BS excuse" was the fact that the ODN was in a war before invicta. Thus, UPN were required to defend us again their allies allies in IRON and TOP. Unless of course somehow the Invicta MADP was activated before invicta went to war....[/quote] Saying they chickened out on all their allies doesn’t exactly win the argument. They werent at war when Invicta entered the war. So the MADP should have been automaticly activated, chickening out on you should have seen them come in for invicta. [quote]What a come back, where do you come up with these? [/quote] Seriously, do you think ODN just fell out of the sky in the Karma war or do you have no memory? Regardless I think UPN have bigger problem with the apparent coup on Peggy_Sue Edited June 5, 2010 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='05 June 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1275732335' post='2324401'] Saying they chickened out on all their allies doesn’t exactly win the argument. They werent at war when Invicta entered the war. So the MADP should have been automatoc, chickening out on you should have seen them come in for invicta.[/quote] No, they were not at war because Invicta asked them not be be iirc. You seem to be forgetting that MADPs are two way, if UPN entered the war for the ODN, Invicta would have had to fight alongside us, and MK et al, too. Presumably Invicta wasn't overjoyed with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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