So guys, is NPO still ruining the game?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='07 May 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1273251473' post='2290355']
Pretty much this. Let's see if those folks can do anything interesting.
[/quote]
Do we really want that? Most of the time Pacifica doing something "interesting" ended up in things like the GPA beatdown.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='07 May 2010 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1273242243' post='2290220']
This.

People need to shut up about the NPO and do something for christ sake. NPO was what it was because it took action to get there and even though they did many things that I feel were detrimental to the community they still made the damn game entertaining. So do something to make this game fun or shut up about how boring it is.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I like how this man thinks.[/color]

[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='07 May 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1273242632' post='2290228']
So yeah, NPO no longer has the power to ruin the game, but apparently we would like to continue their good work regardless. Thanks a lot, NPO. [/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You can't hold NPO accountable for current times. The blame lies on the current power structure and the fact that they are too timid, cowardly, and unimaginative to do anything that is not of the norms set by the NPO during their time. Face it, NPO has been out of power for a long while now. People have been free to do what they want without a certain beat down, but they don't. As Bob said, that is more an indictment of others than it is of the NPO.[/color]

[potato]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='07 May 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1273251727' post='2290365']
[color="#0000FF"]I like how this man thinks.[/color]


[color="#0000FF"]You can't hold NPO accountable for current times. The blame lies on the current power structure and the fact that they are too timid, cowardly, and unimaginative to do anything that is not of the norms set by the NPO during their time. Face it, NPO has been out of power for a long while now. People have been free to do what they want without a certain beat down, but they don't. As Bob said, that is more an indictment of others than it is of the NPO.[/color]
[/quote]

I guess you could see that way. One other way is that the current power structure don't feel like rolling people for no good reason at all, my good friend.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='anenu' date='07 May 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1273251084' post='2290350']
so Athens tech raiding a small alliance and the unless i am mistaken paying reps to it and NpO starting a war that MK very much disagreed with is the same thing as curbstopping say GATO or GPA or FAN or CIS and well i think you get the idea.
[/quote]

I think you have the wrong war there. What you need to be looking at is the TPF war, not the KoN incident.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1273250481' post='2290342']
Haflinger stop talking. MK was trying their very hardest to stop the NpO-\m/ war before it could start. Remember that PC was on the other side of that conflict and is a close ally of Athens and FoB.
[/quote]

This is absolutely right. Chief and I were engaged in diplomatic discussions with MK as the mediators during the beginning stages of the conflict before the first shots were fired and throughout the remainder of that front in the war. They worked diligently with both sides to prevent it from escalating, but unfortunately they were in a no-win situation since neither party was willing to back down to the other.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Emperor Marx

[shilo]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='07 May 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1273252465' post='2290379']
I think you have the wrong war there. What you need to be looking at is the TPF war, not the KoN incident.
[/quote]
The CB was definitely as solid as that of the GATO curbstomp.

[anenu]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='07 May 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1273252465' post='2290379']
I think you have the wrong war there. What you need to be looking at is the TPF war, not the KoN incident.
[/quote]

no matter how unjust you might see the declaration of war no curbstomp appeared from it and no alliances where placed under a viceroy or reps demanded.

[shilo]

[quote name='anenu' date='07 May 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1273252992' post='2290383']
no matter how unjust you might see the declaration of war no curbstomp appeared from it and no alliances where placed under a viceroy or reps demanded.
[/quote]
Yes, cause we delayed the real fight till the next war

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='anenu' date='07 May 2010 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1273252992' post='2290383']
no matter how unjust you might see the declaration of war no curbstomp appeared from it and no alliances where placed under a viceroy or reps demanded.
[/quote]

I disagree, TPF was hit by four alliance, that were larger than itself, and four alliances total. They lost half their NS. I believe that to be curb stomp. It ended when the alliances at it were were surprised that all their friends came to their defense.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='anenu' date='07 May 2010 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1273251084' post='2290350']
so Athens tech raiding a small alliance and the unless i am mistaken paying reps to it and NpO starting a war that MK very much disagreed with is the same thing as curbstopping say GATO or GPA or FAN or CIS and well i think you get the idea.
[/quote]
I was talking about Athens hitting TPF based on, well, high school-grade romantic hijinks.

But yeah, throw in KoNI too if you want.

[Daimos]

I doubt you will see NPO make any significant moves in the political arena anytime soon once out of terms. NPO has risen to the sanction race without lifting a finger. Why make moves at all at this point. So try not to depend on NPO to much for your entertainment, I like were we are right now.

This game is a marathon not a sprint. NPO has the stamina (resolve) to see it through the end. See you all at the finish line.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Daimos' date='07 May 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1273253543' post='2290389']
I doubt you will see NPO make any significant moves in the political arena anytime soon once out of terms. NPO has risen to the sanction race without lifting a finger. Why make moves at all at this point. So try not to depend on NPO to much for your entertainment, I like were we are right now.

This game is a marathon not a sprint. NPO has the stamina (resolve) to see it through the end. See you all at the finish line.
[/quote]

What finish line?

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='07 May 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1273251662' post='2290364']
Do we really want that? Most of the time Pacifica doing something "interesting" ended up in things like the GPA beatdown.
[/quote]
I didn't say let's see if they do things like Pacifica. I said let's see if they do anything interesting with the power they now have.

[shilo]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1273253660' post='2290393']
What finish line?
[/quote]
When they start ruining the game again I presume.

[Chief Savage Man]

I don't get why people feel the need to designate somebody as the hegemon. Have you ever considered that is there no hegemon and that your simplistic explanations for everything as an extension of MK's influence are just $@! wrong?

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1273253660' post='2290393']
What finish line?
[/quote]

There is no finish line on this hamster wheel.

[shilo]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1273253821' post='2290403']
I don't get why people feel the need to designate somebody as the hegemon. Have you ever considered that is there no hegemon and that your simplistic explanations for everything as an extension of MK's influence are just $@! wrong?
[/quote]
For the time being, we don't have a single hegemon, that is correct. NPO didn't start of dominating the game on day 1, they even lost a war on their way up. Looking at history, NPO also didn't start of curbstomping alliances and disbanding them. The warning signs were clear way earlier though.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 12:37 PM' timestamp='1273253821' post='2290403']
I don't get why people feel the need to designate somebody as the hegemon. Have you ever considered that is there no hegemon and that your simplistic explanations for everything as an extension of MK's influence are just $@! wrong?
[/quote]

What I don't get is why you brought up hegemony, like its been brought up in this thread. No one has even mentioned it here.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='shilo' date='07 May 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1273254101' post='2290414']
For the time being, we don't have a single hegemon, that is correct. NPO didn't start of dominating the game on day 1, they even lost a war on their way up. Looking at history, NPO also didn't start of curbstomping alliances and disbanding them. The warning signs were clear way earlier though.
[/quote]

Even designating one alliance as the hegemon in the future is overly simplistic. People seem to forget that NPO had a [i]lot[/i] of accomplices.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='07 May 2010 - 01:43 PM' timestamp='1273254172' post='2290416']
What I don't get is why you brought up hegemony, like its been brought up in this thread. No one has even mentioned it here.
[/quote]

I'm just reminding everybody that NPO wasn't alone in its transgressions. NPO was only the most high-profile of the many many alliances who were involved in the Hegemony.

[shilo]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1273254179' post='2290417']
Even designating one alliance as the hegemon in the future is overly simplistic. People seem to forget that NPO had a [i]lot[/i] of accomplices.
[/quote]
Absolutely true. My take is the worst crimes were committed by them, not by NPO directly. Bloodhounds who exchanged doing the dirty work for being able to let's say extort tech via nuclear blackmail from alliances. Many who now act like they have always been "on the good" side conveniently cozed up to NPO for various reasons, or tried to, and very few acknoledge that past now.

I admit NPO has become a symbol for "the evils of the past", "exHegemony" as the list of accomplices, but honest history would have to expand that list significantly.

[King Srqt]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='07 May 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1273250359' post='2290340']
Actually, Athens started one, NpO another. Both are close MK allies.

As for the "only one war" argument - that's the same number as the number of wars NPO started between WotC and Karma.
[/quote]
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't NPO start the Karma war?

[shilo]

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='07 May 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1273255944' post='2290446']
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't NPO start the Karma war?
[/quote]
Well, they attacked OV, they certainly didn't escalate the war.

[Heyman]

[quote name='KingSrqt' date='07 May 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1273255944' post='2290446']
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't NPO start the Karma war?
[/quote]

That's irrelevant.

That'd be (War of the Coalition, Karma War), as opposed to [War of the Coalition, Karma War]

[jer]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='07 May 2010 - 06:02 PM' timestamp='1273251727' post='2290365']
[color="#0000FF"]You can't hold NPO accountable for current times. The blame lies on the current power structure and the fact that they are too timid, cowardly, and unimaginative to do anything that is not of the norms set by the NPO during their time. Face it, NPO has been out of power for a long while now. People have been free to do what they want without a certain beat down, but they don't. As Bob said, that is more an indictment of others than it is of the NPO.[/color]
[/quote]
That sentence was tongue in cheek, and you're right. For what it's worth I think crowning you as supreme overlord of Sparta, MHA, ODN, etc. would be a most satisfactory solution to the problems of widespread stagnation and so forth. I have faith that the general memberships of those alliances will see sense and demand that you are installed post haste.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Aimee Mann