So guys, is NPO still ruining the game?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='General Vengeance' date='09 May 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1273450445' post='2292949']
Hopefully soon, CN is painfully boring without them.
[/quote]

On the contrary, the past two wars (including the almost war) have been two of the most even-sided global conflicts to date and alliances have employed war strategies other than "overwhelm them with our 5:1 advantage". In my opinion that's far more interesting than simply waiting around to find out who the next curbstomp victim will be.

We're still not at the point where we can get wars that go on for weeks with no clear winner (mainly due to the strategic blunders of catastrophic proportions coming from the opposition), but we're getting there. Perhaps NPO's return to the political scene will help even the odds a bit more.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[Opethian]

It seems that people (including myself upon reflection) are more interested in pointing fingers regarding the general decline of CN than doing much to resolve it. There is that fine line between beautiful rivalry and a cliquish circling of the drain, and I hope we don't find ourselves in the latter.

But, the beauty of this game in my experience is how it has always managed to surprise me when I was just sure that establishment had been set.

LUV U KARMA, but here's to hoping the pax you've rendered is soon torn asunder by delicious drama.

Stagnation: it's their fault.

[AlmightyGrub]

I tried to ruin the game and everyone cried but yet here we are. Same s$%^ different day. Piss or get off the pot?

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Cortath' date='09 May 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1273359367' post='2291821']
No, I'm not wrong. You are wrong. See how easy that was?

*shrugs* [color="#FF0000"][b][u]Diplomacy isn't done on the OWF. It's done other places.[/u][/b][/color] If you want to hear us out, come to our forums and listen. Heck, I'll come to your forums even. If you want to continue playing whatever little game you're playing right now to stroke your own ego or gain some credit with whatever people you happen to think are important, I recommend pontificating on the OWF.

But if you're sincere in wanting to hear what the NPO has to say, I'll see you on our forums.
[/quote]

This is precisely why the game is so boring and is in decline. No public diplomacy means that there is no public drama and this means that the public is bored senseless by the bland streams of propaganda that hits the OWF, and there is little to no reason to even visit OWF or the forum in general anymore.

[President Buseje]

Could it not be possible, that after going through such a war and reparations, that NPO will return to Cybernations politics a changed alliance, repudiating their past actions, one of the good-guys, as it were?

[jer]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='10 May 2010 - 09:59 AM' timestamp='1273481954' post='2293431']
This is precisely why the game is so boring and is in decline. No public diplomacy means that there is no public drama and this means that the public is bored senseless by the bland streams of propaganda that hits the OWF, and there is little to no reason to even visit OWF or the forum in general anymore.
[/quote]
What are you doing to solve this problem? Polaris practices 'private channels ftw' too, does it not? I don't mean to single you out, because you're making a decent point... it's just that folks have been complaining about how all of the drama is only really experienced by a handful of people in private channels for a long time, whilst at the same time staying subjugated in the same alliances led by leaders whom propagate the private channel problem (I have been guilty of this too).

Find an alliance that will promise to keep you in the loop, or that will carry out all of it's diplomacy on OWF (I honestly don't think this is such a bad idea) or make one of your own. At least then you're no longer propping up the guys who create a political game that excludes a large number of people.

[Banksy]

[quote name='President Buseje' date='10 May 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1273482521' post='2293434']
Could it not be possible, that after going through such a war and reparations, that NPO will return to Cybernations politics a changed alliance, repudiating their past actions, one of the good-guys, as it were?[/quote]
I hear the Pope's into Voodoo.

[Cortath]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='10 May 2010 - 04:59 AM' timestamp='1273481954' post='2293431']
This is precisely why the game is so boring and is in decline. No public diplomacy means that there is no public drama and this means that the public is bored senseless by the bland streams of propaganda that hits the OWF, and there is little to no reason to even visit OWF or the forum in general anymore.
[/quote]

I must have dozed off during the time when the CN OWF was a vibrant bastion of discussion and debate on matters of affairs of state.

As I write this post, the thread underneath is a compilation of poorly drawn sketches painted (with MS Paint) by someone half-mad articulating the history of CyberNations ... shall we say crudely, and [i]I[/i] get accused of dumbing down the OWF? *chuckles*

[Gn0xious Jr]

I have no issue with Private Channels FTW. It made me strive to be more active and earn a seat in my alliance's government to get "in on that action." Others should do the same if they want to deal with the day-to-day BS whilst getting some "juicy" behind-the-scenes info.

Or... start your own alliance. Hell, we should all go to 1-man alliances using the OWF as our debate hall. That should make things VERY interesting

edit (on topic): I'm sure this is all NPO's fault

Edited May 10, 2010 by Gn0xious Jr

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='10 May 2010 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1273481933' post='2293430']
I tried to ruin the game and everyone cried but yet here we are. Same s$%^ different day. Piss or get off the pot?
[/quote]

It came out of incompetence rather than volition, but you sure did. We should all celebrate it.

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='10 May 2010 - 08:59 AM' timestamp='1273481954' post='2293431']
This is precisely why the game is so boring and is in decline. No public diplomacy means that there is no public drama and this means that the public is bored senseless by the bland streams of propaganda that hits the OWF, and there is little to no reason to even visit OWF or the forum in general anymore.
[/quote]

We should be thankful that the game is deep and interesting enough for this to happen. I'd imagine a boring, one-dimensional game if everything was conducted publicly.

Not to mention, the OWF still offers us a few gems and blunders every now and then.

[Chief Savage Man]

NPO actually ruin the game for a lot of people. All Grub ever did was create a two week spectacle that brought back lots of people who I like therefore de-ruining the game for me. It was a valiant effort, though.

[Mussolandia]

Your opinion is, of course, not in the slightest bit influenced by the fact your side won the war.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='10 May 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1273511630' post='2293697']
Your opinion is, of course, not in the slightest bit influenced by the fact your side won the war.
[/quote]

It was a white peace, Musso. Nobody won. I guess we might have won by not losing. Whatever, another topic for another thread. Here's my piece on NPO: I hold no ill will towards them and I'm more suspicious of a few of the Karma alliances than I am of NPO.

[Mussolandia]

This is an OOC forum and yours is a biased, IC opinion. The content of the terms for your part of the squabble does not necessarily equate to the outcome of the wider conflict. Polar and allies and TOP and allies lost the war.

It is impossible to agree on a definition of what ruining the game means. If you believe harsh terms, one-sided conflicts and occupation wars implies ruining the game, then the NPO was not the only alliance to go by that playbook.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='10 May 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1273512831' post='2293728']
It is impossible to agree on a definition of what ruining the game means. If you believe harsh terms, one-sided conflicts and occupation wars implies ruining the game, then the NPO was not the only alliance to go by that playbook.
[/quote]

Too many people forgot how many conspirators NPO had. I did my share of ruining the game in the Initiative helping keep FAN or VE down or attacking Legion on a shaky CB.

[Ejayrazz]

I am ruining this game.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='11 May 2010 - 03:14 AM' timestamp='1273511630' post='2293697']
Your opinion is, of course, not in the slightest bit influenced by the fact your side won the war.
[/quote]

Umm actually \m/ capitulated to Polaris' demands. They seem to have become a better alliance as a result, so that could be said to be a 'win' in a sense, but it doesnt seem to be what you were implying...

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' date='10 May 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1273515151' post='2293766']
Umm actually \m/ capitulated to Polaris' demands. They seem to have become a better alliance as a result, so that could be said to be a 'win' in a sense, but it doesnt seem to be what you were implying...
[/quote]

Actually I meant to throw in \m/ and PC's demands into the final agreement but I put in Polaris' by accident. So I suppose I accidentally capitulated to their demands. It meant little in the end.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Banksy' date='07 May 2010 - 04:00 AM' timestamp='1273219188' post='2290092']
The NPO was only ever a threat when decent alliances like TOP, Gremlins, FOK etc enabled them. They can't ruin the game by themselves.
[/quote]
Considering the alliance you are in I find this incredibly amusing when speaking of alliances only having power because of associations.

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' date='10 May 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1273515151' post='2293766']
Umm actually \m/ capitulated to Polaris' demands. They seem to have become a better alliance as a result, so that could be said to be a 'win' in a sense, but it doesnt seem to be what you were implying...
[/quote]

Polar is a weaker alliance today, both militarily and diplomatically, than when the war started. That's what I'm implying. Simple fact. They lost the war.

EDIT: I was NSO at the time, on their side, and by the looks of it we were decisively defeated.

EDIT part 2: thanks Ivan, I was going to point that out but I felt it was too silly to respond to. What he said has been true for any hegemon in the game since July 2006. The only superpower the world has known, and probably will ever know, was the New Pacific Order between March and July of 2006, when it ruled the world by itself. All ruling parties since have been blocs, extending a varying degree of dominance over other groups/blocs.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Mussolandia

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Opethian' date='10 May 2010 - 04:35 AM' timestamp='1273480516' post='2293423']
It seems that people (including myself upon reflection) are more interested in pointing fingers regarding the general decline of CN than doing much to resolve it. There is that fine line between beautiful rivalry and a cliquish circling of the drain, and I hope we don't find ourselves in the latter.

But, the beauty of this game in my experience is how it has always managed to surprise me when I was just sure that establishment had been set.

LUV U KARMA, but here's to hoping the pax you've rendered is soon torn asunder by delicious drama.

Stagnation: it's their fault.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I've been saying this for over a year. Karma won, and instead of deciding to kill off its other half (either SF for CnG or CnG for SF) they instead got around in a little circle and decided to be friends and have a picnic. Their only goals are to beat down the NPO and its friends over and over. As someone who was in the RIA I can attest to this. All that is ever spoken about is how the NPO needs to be beaten down again because they're that bad. Now as you all I know I have a long and storied history with the NPO, but even I can see how pathetic this one sided hate is becoming. People need to learn how to hate someone else. Someone different. That is the only way to keep things interesting.[/color]

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='10 May 2010 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1273527547' post='2293920']
Polar is a weaker alliance today, both militarily and diplomatically, than when the war started. That's what I'm implying. Simple fact. They lost the war.

EDIT: I was NSO at the time, on their side, and by the looks of it we were decisively defeated.
[/quote]

I contest that. Polar didn't really lose all that much strength from the war, while meanwhile a large part of the rest of the world lost a significant amount. They didn't really lose the war either, since they switched onto the winning side and were never made to surrender or submit to terms of any kind.

I won't dispute that they have suffered a massive diplomatic loss, but they're already recovering from that, except with those they left hanging.

also, lol @ RV

Edited May 10, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 May 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1273529078' post='2293960']
also, lol @ RV[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]What do you find so funny? That I enjoy what I do? I suppose that is more than what can be said about some others, for whom this has become like a second job (or their job even). They spend so much time worrying about their alliance's growth and survival that they've forgotten how to have fun. They get together in little security nets with others that prevent anything interesting from happening. NPO and Co. was guilty of it, and now Karma is. You had the opportunity to change the way the game is played. You had a chance to truly, and dramatically, alter the power structure, instead of simply changing the face of it. You had the chance to do so much, but once the NPO was removed you decided the job was done. Really, no matter how you put it you people truly are no fun. You don't even know the meaning of the word. You are unimaginative and unoriginal. I do hope the NPO returns. They made a terrific antagonist.

As I have said many times, Cyber Nations is a game. You need to play a game against an opponent, since a game you play by yourself really is quite the bore. You also want a good opponent. Tell me, do you think a world class soccer team wants to play against some small county's youth league? Not really. It would be slaughtering the same team over and over, always knowing the results. That's not fun because there is no challenge, and the result is always certain.

But that is what the NPO wanted, and what I criticized the government for doing then because it did kill the game. I suggested letting the old Aegis/League rebound and get a shot. Or maybe not, and turn on our allies instead. Give us a new team to play against. One that was fresh. And like the NPO back then, Karma is resistant to that idea. For that reason you do not deserve to be on top. It has always been a belief of mine that those on top have the responsibility of keeping the community fresh, or at the very least not prevent others from doing so.

Although I have been critical of Grub's action in the last war, I do appreciate his at least doing something to shake things up. Stir the pot. That is more than others have done. Unfortunately he made some errors that rendered his efforts futile and only strengthened the grip of the boring on this world by putting any potential competitors at even more of a disadvantage. But never the less what Grub tried to do is what this game needs more of.

NPO did contribute to the decline of the game since the end of GWIII. I am sure all of you Karma folks can agree on that, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that you're doing the same thing. Not through unbalanced matches, in which the victory of one was always certain, but through the fact you do nothing at all. You give nobody, other than former enemies, a reason to want to take you down. And quite frankly you should. You should try to play the bad guy so that someone else can be the good guy. Do some injustice. Do some unspeakable evil. And I do not mean that in jest.

You won't though. You do not want to risk losing your power and security. I wouldn't expect anything more of you, however. You people always were unworthy of having power not because you abuse it but because you don't use it at all. So like it or not, NPO's contributions to the game's decline are in the past. For the moment they are innocent. It is your fault now, and you are the ones to blame. You've had plenty of time to do something interesting. What is your excuse for failure?[/color]

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Dontasemebro' date='07 May 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1273209793' post='2289985']
But remember, NPO won this game, right?
[/quote]

There is no such thing. You don't "win" anything on Planet Bob, you survive (or not) and if you're both talented and lucky, you do so in a way that YOU consider successful - not by the standards of anyone else.

(OCC: replace "fun" for successful)

In terms of anyone person's or alliances desires for world domination, here is the perspective on someone who has been an alliance leader from day one and thus paid close attention out of necessity. I started after NPO had already established power and observed from the sidelines things since. I've also heard a bunch of stories already regarding the past. Interesting - but ancient history.

If you want to "win", impress people of my "generation" and/or older nations that are sick of continually fighting over the same old grudges. Those of us who have observed that empires can be taken down (so nothing is ever hopeless) but have little to no direct experience as to why anyone would care and/or those who no longer care. All the "evil" of NPO I've experienced came from non-NPO members saying "you better X or Y" or NPO will get you. I'm almost two years old and have NEVER had an issue with anyone in NPO directly OR what's been said on OWF. Can't say that about some other alliances. And frankly, I've had talks with people who have had some direct negative experiences from NPO but have flat out said that if NPO goes in a direction they like, they don't care either.

Your talk of a past means very little not having experienced it. Why should I be involved in an on-going battle that has nothing to do with me? If I were in some other alliance and the leaders were caught up in this and someone came along with a plan looking forward instead of continually fighting over their own old grudges, I'd leave as soon as I could do whatever was necessary to leave on good terms - period. In fact, that IS a huge part of why I bothered figuring out how to survive on Bob without joining another group in the first place. I highly suspect it's a large part of the motivation for all the other new alliances that have appeared since the Karma war as well.

It's not that I don't care to fight or that I'm neutral. It's that (with some exceptions - which I am following up on) few individuals or alliances seem to care WHAT I (and people like me) want. The one (or more) leader(s)/alliance(s) who leave the past behind and really start looking forward (with some sort of actual plan, not a list of grievances or demands to do whatever they please regardless of how it affects others) - that's who I predict will eventually "win."

Edited May 11, 2010 by White Chocolate