So guys, is NPO still ruining the game?

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='10 May 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1273530860' post='2294010']
[color="#0000FF"][654 blue words][/color]
[/quote]
Holy crap, you wrote all that in response to "lol @ RV"? What I found funny was your statements about RIA, nothing more.

It's a good rant though. I agree for the most part.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 May 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1273536751' post='2294138']
I agree for the most part.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Then how about you and your alliance do something for a change? As an irrelevant sideshow these days I can only provide so much entertainment for the rest of.[/color]

[ktarthan]

Don't worry RV, given GOONS's growth over the last couple days, we should be back on top in a couple months.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='10 May 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1273511505' post='2293694']
NPO actually ruin the game for a lot of people. All Grub ever did was create a two week spectacle that brought back lots of people who I like therefore de-ruining the game for me. It was a valiant effort, though.
[/quote]
I'm glad to hear that you like me

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='11 May 2010 - 08:34 AM' timestamp='1273530860' post='2294010'][color="#0000ff"]Stuff.[/color][/quote]

Your biggest mistake here is in using too narrow a definition of game. You seem to think that all games are finite and competitive, that they always must fit the mold of classical games like 'chess' and 'risk' and 'stratego' and so forth. This is simply not true, there are other types of games.

There are infinite games as well as finite games, and this one is effectively an [url="http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/finite__infinite_games_compared.aspx"]infinite game.[/url]

In addition, while this game has competitive elements, it also has coöperative elements, and we have the opportunity to play with all kinds of variations and mixtures of the two styles.

You criticise others for lacking the vision to play differently and make this game more fun, but at the same time you are overlooking signficant opportunities to play differently yourself.

[quote]And like the NPO back then, Karma is resistant to that idea. For that reason you do not deserve to be on top. [/quote]

The NPO was and is an existing entity. Karma is not and never was. For that reason it is not 'on top' and you are speaking gibberish here.

[quote]It has always been a belief of mine that those on top have the responsibility of keeping the community fresh, or at the very least not prevent others from doing so.[/quote]

I think it's a good idea but I am unsure how any such obligation could arise, or how it could be enforced. Both morally and practically that 'obligation' would seem to fall lower, on everyone, not just 'those on the top.' Particularly right now, when no one in particular is actually 'on top.'


[quote name='White Chocolate' date='11 May 2010 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1273535533' post='2294117']
Your talk of a past means very little not having experienced it. Why should I be involved in an on-going battle that has nothing to do with me? [/quote]

While it's quite a reasonable view and I cannot condemn you for taking it, I must point out to you that 'those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.' Planet Bob is a world of long memories, and those long memories drive the lions share of the drama that we have to work with, in addition to informing the actors. You mentioned forming your own alliance to escape this, but that cannot be fully effective as you still interact with others. When you make friends with an older alliance, for instance, you cannot stay unaffected by their history. Their past, positive or negative, becomes something you will now defend. The friends and enemies they have earned over the years now affect you. And if they have a long tradition of treachery it would be a dangerous delusion for you to think this is irrelevant to your own relationship.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' date='11 May 2010 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1273612105' post='2295150']
Your biggest mistake here is in using too narrow a definition of game. You seem to think that all games are finite and competitive, that they always must fit the mold of classical games like 'chess' and 'risk' and 'stratego' and so forth. This is simply not true, there are other types of games.

There are infinite games as well as finite games, and this one is effectively an [url="http://infiniteplaythemovie.com/finite__infinite_games_compared.aspx"]infinite game.[/url]

In addition, while this game has competitive elements, it also has coöperative elements, and we have the opportunity to play with all kinds of variations and mixtures of the two styles.

You criticise others for lacking the vision to play differently and make this game more fun, but at the same time you are overlooking signficant opportunities to play differently yourself.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am aware that there are competitive and cooperative elements. However, what we have here is everyone deciding to cooperate and grow. How boring. As well as this silly civility we got here. If you don't play nice you're labeled and idiot and an attention whore. As for playing differently, no thanks. I have no plans to join the ridiculous social club that CnG and SF seem intent on starting up.[/color]

[quote]The NPO was and is an existing entity. Karma is not and never was. For that reason it is not 'on top' and you are speaking gibberish here.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I use the term Karma loosely. And whether you want to admit it or not the alliances that made up are still running the show.[/color]

[quote]I think it's a good idea but I am unsure how any such obligation could arise, or how it could be enforced. Both morally and practically that 'obligation' would seem to fall lower, on everyone, not just 'those on the top.' Particularly right now, when no one in particular is actually 'on top.' [/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No one is on top because there current power structure is too timid and too unambitious to try and take it. If anyone tries they are collectively beat down and isolated for being too aggressive. The current rule dictating Bob is "can't everyone just get along?" Again, how boring.[/color]

[Tomcat]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='10 May 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1273530860' post='2294010']
[color="#0000FF"]What do you find so funny? That I enjoy what I do? I suppose that is more than what can be said about some others, for whom this has become like a second job (or their job even). They spend so much time worrying about their alliance's growth and survival that they've forgotten how to have fun. They get together in little security nets with others that prevent anything interesting from happening. NPO and Co. was guilty of it, and now Karma is. You had the opportunity to change the way the game is played. You had a chance to truly, and dramatically, alter the power structure, instead of simply changing the face of it. You had the chance to do so much, but once the NPO was removed you decided the job was done. Really, no matter how you put it you people truly are no fun. You don't even know the meaning of the word. You are unimaginative and unoriginal. I do hope the NPO returns. They made a terrific antagonist.

As I have said many times, Cyber Nations is a game. You need to play a game against an opponent, since a game you play by yourself really is quite the bore. You also want a good opponent. Tell me, do you think a world class soccer team wants to play against some small county's youth league? Not really. It would be slaughtering the same team over and over, always knowing the results. That's not fun because there is no challenge, and the result is always certain.

But that is what the NPO wanted, and what I criticized the government for doing then because it did kill the game. I suggested letting the old Aegis/League rebound and get a shot. Or maybe not, and turn on our allies instead. Give us a new team to play against. One that was fresh. And like the NPO back then, Karma is resistant to that idea. For that reason you do not deserve to be on top. It has always been a belief of mine that those on top have the responsibility of keeping the community fresh, or at the very least not prevent others from doing so.

Although I have been critical of Grub's action in the last war, I do appreciate his at least doing something to shake things up. Stir the pot. That is more than others have done. Unfortunately he made some errors that rendered his efforts futile and only strengthened the grip of the boring on this world by putting any potential competitors at even more of a disadvantage. But never the less what Grub tried to do is what this game needs more of.

NPO did contribute to the decline of the game since the end of GWIII. I am sure all of you Karma folks can agree on that, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that you're doing the same thing. Not through unbalanced matches, in which the victory of one was always certain, but through the fact you do nothing at all. You give nobody, other than former enemies, a reason to want to take you down. And quite frankly you should. You should try to play the bad guy so that someone else can be the good guy. Do some injustice. Do some unspeakable evil. And I do not mean that in jest.

You won't though. You do not want to risk losing your power and security. I wouldn't expect anything more of you, however. You people always were unworthy of having power not because you abuse it but because you don't use it at all. So like it or not, NPO's contributions to the game's decline are in the past. For the moment they are innocent. It is your fault now, and you are the ones to blame. You've had plenty of time to do something interesting. What is your excuse for failure?[/color]
[/quote]
So the reason why you hate those who you now believe "rule" planet bob, is because they aren't bad enough guys?

Sounds like you're going out of your way looking for new enemies.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Tomcat' date='11 May 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1273630436' post='2295545']
So the reason why you hate those who you now believe "rule" planet bob, is because they aren't bad enough guys?

Sounds like you're going out of your way looking for new enemies.
[/quote]

I agree with him though, honestly.

It's all good and fine to try and strive for moralism and peaceful resolutions, especially when you're at the top, but that doesn't make for a fun atmosphere and everyone knows it. Otherwise we'd all be in GPA, TDO or WTF right now.

There's a couple 'bad guys' on both sides currently, but not enough to shake things up any more than they are right now.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Mixoux' date='11 May 2010 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1273634815' post='2295648']
I agree with him though, honestly.

It's all good and fine to try and strive for moralism and peaceful resolutions, especially when you're at the top, but that doesn't make for a fun atmosphere and everyone knows it. Otherwise we'd all be in GPA, TDO or WTF right now.

There's a couple 'bad guys' on both sides currently, but not enough to shake things up any more than they are right now.
[/quote]

Time to become the Super Villains?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='12 May 2010 - 07:19 AM' timestamp='1273663173' post='2295945']
Time to become the Super Villains?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Please. Do do something. As a sideshow, an a very good one if I do say so, I can only provide so much entertainment. Someone else ought to pick up and follow my lead. Do something. Anything. As long as it is interesting.[/color]

[Maelstrom Vortex]

We would like to stop and thank everyone for reminding us that despite having beaten us into submission and kept us out of play for approximately 9 months and in a relatively inert state, that your world still revolves around us. For those of you who do not like this, I suggest getting a life.. or talking about something else.. besides us.. either works well!

No offense, I just figured I'd poke a little satire at what I feel is a huge over-analysis.

Maintaining game quality is a group effort of the community and anyone who thinks otherwise.. is obvlivious

Edited May 13, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Fyfe XIV]

RV do you want to go on a play date sometime? Those are usually fun

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Fyfe XIV' date='13 May 2010 - 03:39 AM' timestamp='1273736326' post='2296832']
RV do you want to go on a play date sometime? Those are usually fun
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You're welcome to try me anytime you want.[/color]

[Hymenbreach]

Right. Stupid update means I have to type this again.

No one is ruining the game. There is only whining that the game is not going your way. I don't like how the game is now, with too many lulzmorons in charge of alliances killing my suspension of disbelief but I wouldn't be so egotistical to think that means the game is being ruined. Yeah, I preferred the old hegemony days, but then being a member of The Legion meant we were rarely more than a couple of weeks off some kind of drama.

As for those who are bored, I'll say what I said during the Hegemony time (just before, unrelatedly, Vox started): If you are bored do something about it. I hope to in the future, if RL becomes a bit more easy on me. If you are bored and you do nothing about it, then it is your own fault.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='07 May 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1273250481' post='2290342']
Haflinger stop talking. MK was trying their very hardest to stop the NpO-\m/ war before it could start. Remember that PC was on the other side of that conflict and is a close ally of Athens and FoB.
[/quote]
lol, really now?

[sethb]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='18 May 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1274189791' post='2302129']
lol, really now?
[/quote]
Yeah, really.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='sethb' date='18 May 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1274192826' post='2302149']
Yeah, really.
[/quote]
Thank you for your input.

[sethb]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='18 May 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1274197729' post='2302186']
Thank you for your input.
[/quote]
I'm always here to help.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='18 May 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1274189791' post='2302129']
lol, really now?
[/quote]

Oh right, I was just a triumvir of the alliance being attacked. What would I know?


There are no ifs, ands or buts about it. MK did not want that war to happen and put forth great effort to try and stop it. Period.

[Drai]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='18 May 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1274189791' post='2302129']
lol, really now?
[/quote]
Uhh yeah actually. I can recall multiple gov members in MK who were quite upset when the conflict exploded.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Drai

[Mussolandia]

People who are winning don't really like wars that upset the situation where they are winning comfortably. That's why MK didn't like this war at first. In the end, you're forced to pick a side. MK seems to have a problem with just about everything NpO does, since it's connected to a lot of people NpO has a problem with.

Now if only NpO would realize this obvious fact, it'd save us all a lot of trouble

Edited May 19, 2010 by Mussolandia

[Mixoux]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='18 May 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1274189791' post='2302129']
lol, really now?
[/quote]

Contrary to the propaganda, yes.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Mixoux' date='20 May 2010 - 05:35 AM' timestamp='1274294100' post='2303533']
Contrary to the propaganda, yes.
[/quote]
If SuperComplaints is losing the propaganda war, you have no one to blame but yourselves. You are the dominant power. You are shaping the world. You hold the advantage in any military encounter. There is no Vox harassing you. If you can't find a way to portray yourselves positively in these conditions, there's something wrong with you.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='19 May 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1274314151' post='2303875']
If SuperComplaints is losing the propaganda war, you have no one to blame but yourselves. You are the dominant power. You are shaping the world. You hold the advantage in any military encounter. There is no Vox harassing you. If you can't find a way to portray yourselves positively in these conditions, there's something wrong with you.
[/quote]

That's not what I was alluding to. Fact of the matter is that the dominant propaganda from last war on the other side was focused on MK/C&G in general, despite them being largely uninvolved militarily until later. Many people bought into and still believe that they were cheering on NpO's actions from the very beginning.

It's not like there's a secret to getting people to like you; we could give white peace in every war and push heavily for peace before any potential future conflict and people would find something to complain about. Fact of the matter is that posters have already decided who they are going to listen to and who is the 'bad guy' (for the most part anyway). Hell, people still give TSO tons of flak despite them having done literally nothing of note since their inception.

And if you think being able to 'portray yourselves positively in these conditions' is that simple, I'd have to laugh. Every dominant side has had to deal with dissenters since the beginning of Bob, well before Vox. This is nothing new.

[Banksy]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='20 May 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1274314151' post='2303875']
If SuperComplaints is losing the propaganda war, you have no one to blame but yourselves. You are the dominant power. You are shaping the world. You hold the advantage in any military encounter. There is no Vox harassing you. If you can't find a way to portray yourselves positively in these conditions, there's something wrong with you.
[/quote]
[i]Still[/i] a little raw over Vox?