Who's Tech Dealing With The Gramlins

[Haflinger]

[quote name='flak attack' date='22 April 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1271910666' post='2270264']
Wait, I just found an absolute hilarity here. Didn't you guys attack Illuminati because they were planning to join the War on Peace?
[/quote]
Actually... no. That was why NATO attacked, and why NPO cancelled on them. Most of the other people there doing the fighting had their own reasons.

For Invicta, it was for first supporting a nuke rogue at war with Dawny by having a few of their members try to slotfill him, then giving us permission to attack the slotfillers, then threatening the nations we sent to attack the slotfillers. Man those guys.

When NATO relayed the stuff about GPA that they got from Ragnarok we started going around CDT telling them to hit Illuminati on principle. Dealing with Illuminati was like pulling teeth, only a lot less fun.

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]
Hit R&R.

Pleeeeease.

[Letum]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]

You could always try and see what happens.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]

That would be the best early Christmas Gift I'd ever receive.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]

Yes, you do.

[franciscus]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]
If you have a CB? Absolutely! If they give a damn? Somehow I doubt that.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='ironchef' date='22 April 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1271926586' post='2270529']
Why ask Bilrow, you didn’t bother to ask your friends or listen to them when you chose to keep fighting IRON and DAWN even after your friends gave terms and ended their war with them you felt it was valid to keep on fighting. You didn’t ask if this crazy idea of total disarmament and unconditonal surrender before peace talks could take place was a valid move. Grämlins will do as Grämlins pleases friends,allies and CN be damned.
[/quote]
You're a bit presumptuous about what we did or didn't say to our friends.

[cookavich]

[quote name='The AUT' date='22 April 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1271910915' post='2270269']
Nice to see some on the other side of things seeking justice for the few and not for all. So long as our friends and us are taken care of, who cares about the rest if they deserve it! I mean it's just IRON, right? So long as your conscience is clear.
[/quote]I support seeking justice for those deserving of it.

[Alterego]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]
When did the Shamlins start asking anyone anything?

[King Srqt]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='20 April 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1271815465' post='2268564']
I believe this is a part of dealing with it. However, given how many alliances are supporting Ramlins, it requires a certain amount of outside the box work.
[/quote]
That argument only works on people fighting against "your side" silly.

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]

Yes. You should declare war on them.

Edited April 22, 2010 by KingSrqt

[ironchef]

[quote name='ironchef' date='22 April 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1271926586' post='2270529']
Why ask Bilrow, you didn’t bother to ask your friends or listen to them when you chose to keep fighting IRON and DAWN even after your friends gave terms and ended their war with them you felt it was valid to keep on fighting. You didn’t ask if this crazy idea of total disarmament and unconditonal surrender before peace talks could take place was a valid move. Grämlins will do as Grämlins pleases friends,allies and CN be damned.
[/quote]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='22 April 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1271952024' post='2270752']
You're a bit presumptuous about what we did or didn't say to our friends.
[/quote]

And you're a bit presumptuous to think I don’t know what was said to your friends And yes please attack RnR and the others sending aid to IRON. There is nothing stopping you. Or is there

Edited April 23, 2010 by ironchef

[Baldr]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='22 April 2010 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1271918173' post='2270438']
Honestly this entire issue is mostly nonsensical. Sending 100 tech to Gremlins in exchange for 3 million is not a form of military aid to be used against IRON et al because Gremlins, according to common conversion standards, has no net gain from the transaction.
[/quote]

The tech makes their nukes stronger, raises their NS. Pretending that they don't gain anything is silly. If they didn't gain anything, they wouldn't send the money out.

In tech deals, both sides gain. If neither side gained anything, they wouldn't do it.

[shilo]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='22 April 2010 - 08:36 AM' timestamp='1271918173' post='2270438']
Honestly this entire issue is mostly nonsensical. Sending 100 tech to Gremlins in exchange for 3 million is not a form of military aid to be used against IRON et al because Gremlins, according to common conversion standards, has no net gain from the transaction.

Still I suppose this could be be loosely interpreted as an act of war against IRON et al, but.honestly that is an issue between IRON et al and those who choose to have financial transactions with Gremlins during war time. The peanut gallery should not somehow factor into the equation.

Don't let your facts or logic get in the way of trashing Gremlins!
[/quote]
Incase you didn't realize that until now, but tech directly improves one's ability to fight, increases damage output. It's not about the monetary gain, it's about the exchange of money for the improvement of military capabilities, which economically speaking, is indeed a zero sum game, but militarily speaking, it's definitely not. And since we aren't part of Smith's economics, that is what counts.

The sad thing is though, if it were all just empty wartime propaganda getting in the way of the facts, I would agree with you completely. Let's be honest, that is what occurs in almost every conflict there is. But sadly, ram is indeed a nutjob, talk to him and you will see that yourself, and sadly, they are still sticking to a demand that they will simply never force down our throats. I won't even go into the why, I think that would give away too much of the fun, but when you chat to ram, he will surely explain in simple words he likes to use with us lower beings why.

Sadly, facts and logic cannot get in the way of thrashing gRAMlins

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Baldr' date='23 April 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1271996829' post='2271646']The tech makes their nukes stronger, raises their NS. Pretending that they don't gain anything is silly. If they didn't gain anything, they wouldn't send the money out.

In tech deals, both sides gain. If neither side gained anything, they wouldn't do it.[/quote][quote name='shilo' date='23 April 2010 - 04:48 AM' timestamp='1272012466' post='2271856']Incase you didn't realize that until now, but tech directly improves one's ability to fight, increases damage output. It's not about the monetary gain, it's about the exchange of money for the improvement of military capabilities, which economically speaking, is indeed a zero sum game, but militarily speaking, it's definitely not. And since we aren't part of Smith's economics, that is what counts.[/quote]700 tech from FAR represents a +7% increase in damage without a WRC or a 14% increase in damage with a WRC. That is, of course, if the technology is lumped in to a single nation, which I find highly unlikely. Instead it was probably scattered into several different nations engaged in nuclear war, all of whom will probably lose it fairly quickly given the fact that every nuke knocks out a base 50 tech.

So basically what is my point? 700 tech from FAR is neglible amount which will do little to turn back the floodgate of damage inherent nuclear warfare or somehow turn the tide. Hell, even if you add in the 500 tech from DAWN/IRON et al's cobelligerents (MCXA: 150, NATO: 100, League of Soviet Nations: 100, Invicta: 50, Legion: 50, and Nusantara Elite Warriors: 50 ), then Gremlins still won't have a sizable advantage.

[quote]The sad thing is though, if it were all just empty wartime propaganda getting in the way of the facts, I would agree with you completely. Let's be honest, that is what occurs in almost every conflict there is. But sadly, ram is indeed a nutjob, talk to him and you will see that yourself, and sadly, they are still sticking to a demand that they will simply never force down our throats. I won't even go into the why, I think that would give away too much of the fun, but when you chat to ram, he will surely explain in simple words he likes to use with us lower beings why.[/quote]I don't care about Ramirus or Gremlins or IRON or DAWN. Instead, I feel a sense of kinship with [url=http://i39.tinypic.com/axlgz8.jpg]whoever made this delightful little sig[/url]. I just want you kids off my damn lawn so hopefully something more interesting then Gremlins little war can come along and be a source of debate.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Fallen_Fool

[Moridin]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='23 April 2010 - 02:26 AM' timestamp='1272014760' post='2271870']
700 tech from FAR represents a +7% increase in damage without a WRC or a 14% increase in damage with a WRC. That is, of course, if the technology is lumped in to a single nation, which I find highly unlikely. Instead it was probably scattered into several different nations engaged in nuclear war, all of whom will probably lose it fairly quickly given the fact that every nuke knocks out a base 50 tech.

So basically what is my point? 700 tech from FAR is neglible amount which will do little to turn back the floodgate of damage inherent nuclear warfare or somehow turn the tide. Hell, even if you add in the 500 tech from DAWN/IRON et al's cobelligerents (MCXA: 150, NATO: 100, League of Soviet Nations: 100, Invicta: 50, Legion: 50, and Nusantara Elite Warriors: 50 ), then Gremlins still won't have a sizable advantage.
[/quote]

Actually, you overstate the value of the tech. The tech is not even all going to nations engaged in war (I don't care to look through the aid screen to see just how much of it is), and besides that, even if it were all lumped into a single nation (which is impossible from one round of aid) that 700 tech from FAR equates only to an extra 21 infra and 7 tech in damage per nuke, amounting to a grand total of less than 50 extra infra and 16 tech per day - a 14% increase from the [i]base[/i] damage but far from 14% of the real damage. A round of $3 mil aid packages would recoup that loss.

Still, I agree with your overall argument; while I wouldn't personally sell to the Grämlins if I were a tech seller, people are making way too big an issue out of something that really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Moridin

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Moridin' date='23 April 2010 - 05:36 AM' timestamp='1272015375' post='2271873']
Actually, you overstate the value of the tech. The tech is not even all going to nations engaged in war (I don't care to look through the aid screen to see just how much of it is), and besides that, even if it were all lumped into a single nation (which is impossible from one round of aid) that 700 tech from FAR equates only to an extra 21 infra and 7 tech in damage per nuke, amounting to a grand total of less than 50 extra infra and 16 tech per day - a 14% increase from the [i]base[/i] damage but far from 14% of the real damage. A round of $3 mil aid packages would recoup that loss.

Still, I agree with your overall argument; while I wouldn't personally sell to the Grämlins if I were a tech seller, people are making way too big an issue out of something that really doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.
[/quote]Given the fact that my math skills and understanding of such things is fairly rudimentary, I defer to your logic Mr. Tiger.

[shilo]

[quote name='Fallen_Fool' date='23 April 2010 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1272014760' post='2271870']
700 tech from FAR represents a +7% increase in damage without a WRC or a 14% increase in damage with a WRC. That is, of course, if the technology is lumped in to a single nation, which I find highly unlikely. Instead it was probably scattered into several different nations engaged in nuclear war, all of whom will probably lose it fairly quickly given the fact that every nuke knocks out a base 50 tech.

So basically what is my point? 700 tech from FAR is neglible amount which will do little to turn back the floodgate of damage inherent nuclear warfare or somehow turn the tide. Hell, even if you add in the 500 tech from DAWN/IRON et al's cobelligerents (MCXA: 150, NATO: 100, League of Soviet Nations: 100, Invicta: 50, Legion: 50, and Nusantara Elite Warriors: 50 ), then Gremlins still won't have a sizable advantage.

I don't care about Ramirus or Gremlins or IRON or DAWN. Instead, I feel a sense of kinship with [url=http://i39.tinypic.com/axlgz8.jpg]whoever made this delightful little sig[/url]. I just want you kids off my damn lawn so hopefully something more interesting then Gremlins little war can come along and be a source of debate.
[/quote]
It's not your alliance or your ally being forced into such a war by a bunch of nutcases, so sorry if I do more than just spout general wise statements out to make myself look above the "pettiness" that is the OWF, though since you do seem the need to post in the OWF to show you are above it, you clearly aren't.
Just to inform you though: if you really want to make a strong statement about you not caring for this conflict, why not simply refrain from participating in a thread solely dedicated about the very conflict which doesn't interest you?

That said, considering the possible length of this conflict, the about 5000 tech total shipped to gRAMlins in less than a month are a significant amount, more than 1% total of gRAMlins tech, and this means more damage to us over the course of the conflict, it means we need to invest more money to reach their nations, and that is very much so significant - of course only for us poor souls fighting the conflict.

Edited April 23, 2010 by shilo

[scutterbug]

[quote name='shilo' date='23 April 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1272018666' post='2271901']
It's not your alliance or your ally being forced into such a war by a bunch of nutcases, so sorry if I do more than just spout general wise statements out to make myself look above the "pettiness" that is the OWF, though since you do seem the need to post in the OWF to show you are above it, you clearly aren't.
Just to inform you though: if you really want to make a strong statement about you not caring for this conflict, why simply refrain from participating in a thread solely dedicated about the very conflict which doesn't interest you?

That said, considering the possible length of this conflict, the about 5000 tech total shipped to gRAMlins in less than a month are a significant amount, more than 1% total of gRAMlins tech, and this means more damage to us over the course of the conflict, it means we need to invest more money to reach their nations, and that is very much so significant - of course only for us poor souls fighting the conflict.
[/quote]

Can we all point and laugh at the hypocrites yet?

Don't see Gre complaining DAWN/IRON's allies are aiding them now do we. If its fit for one its fit for the other. Whilst IRON/DAWN may be defenders those chosing to aid them with cash/tech are also commiting an offensive act of war should Gre view it as such. So yeah look to yourself before complaining about other peoples behaviour.

[shilo]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='23 April 2010 - 12:37 PM' timestamp='1272019003' post='2271905']
Can we all point and laugh at the hypocrites yet?

Don't see Gre complaining DAWN/IRON's allies are aiding them now do we. If its fit for one its fit for the other. Whilst IRON/DAWN may be defenders those chosing to aid them with cash/tech are also commiting an offensive act of war should Gre view it as such. So yeah look to yourself before complaining about other peoples behaviour.
[/quote]
gRAMlins can definitely complain, attack, or otherwise attempt to stop aid coming to us, I don't remember that I ever stated otherwise. Infact, if you [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84644&view=findpost&p=2270408"]look a bit harder[/url], you can see gRAMlins complaining, and many clearly inviting gRAMlins to act on that complaint or possible CB, I myself am among those supporting a fair treatment of all in this conflict.

Edited April 23, 2010 by shilo

[Azrael Alexander]

[quote name='shilo' date='23 April 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1272019663' post='2271908']
gRAMlins can definitely complain, attack, or otherwise attempt to stop aid coming to us, I don't remember that I ever stated otherwise. Infact, if you [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84644&view=findpost&p=2270408"]look a bit harder[/url], you can see gRAMlins complaining, and many clearly inviting gRAMlins to act on that complaint or possible CB, I myself am among those supporting a fair treatment of all in this conflict.
[/quote]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='22 April 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1271916637' post='2270408']
Can I just ask, do we have a valid CB against RnR, BAPS, The Legion, NSO, Lone Ninja, SNAFU, AGW Overlords, PC and Alpha Omega? Considering they have and are aiding IRON. Or did you forget to look at IRON's aid Birlow?
[/quote]

I don't reallyu think he was complaining more commenting on the hypocrisy. Thankfully the RnR dude sending cash to his orange brothers in now in custody. By that i mean anarchy.

[amad123]

[quote name='Shamshir' date='23 April 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1272023105' post='2271926']
I don't reallyu think he was complaining more commenting on the hypocrisy. Thankfully the RnR dude sending cash to his orange brothers in now in custody. By that i mean anarchy.
[/quote]

Oh now I think someone has opened a can of worms. So here we have the first instance of a nation providing aid to nations belonging to an alliance at war. Since the alliance at war is IRON you and/or the attacking nations assume that this is a perfectly acceptable action to take.

Well before I suggest that all nations sending aid to Gramlins are open for attack lets wait a few days and see what develops. Unlike Gramlins, nations in DAWN and IRON are free to come and go as they please. So anyone assuming a nations that leaves IRON/DAWN is a deserter had better check with the alliance they joined and left.

Attacking a suspected ghost who isn't a ghost may not be the brightest move, but then again one has to consider if these events are random or are they some sort of PR campaign. Only those that are invited into the back rooms are privy to what's really going on in CN. Ninety eight percent of the players are just pawns being played for the amusement of others. DAWN has no back room on our forums, all our members are treated equally and all know exactly what is happening. I look forward to an interesting potentially eventful weekend.

[Ejayrazz]

Tech deals during war have always been looked down upon as it is aiding another alliance during war. Why the e-lawyering? It's still wrong today, just now people do it cause they "can."

Edited April 23, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Thankfully the RnR dude sending cash to his orange brothers in now in custody. By that i mean anarchy.[/quote]
So there you have it folks, Grämlins agree that sending aid to an alliance at war is an act of war. They can't possibly complain about having their tech supplies restricted by force now

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='cookavich' date='21 April 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1271902913' post='2270050']
Give me a break. Most of the people who are !@#$%*ing and moaning over the Gromlins actions are the last people who should be casting stones.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Considering your side has demanded excessive reparations in the last two wars I think it can be safely said that you are not free of guilt either, so how about we call it even and drop this "you have no right to protest" nonsense that is so popular these days.[/color]

[Alterego]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='23 April 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1272043256' post='2272132']
Tech deals during war have always been looked down upon as it is aiding another alliance during war. Why the e-lawyering? It's still wrong today, just now people do it cause they "can."
[/quote]
The war is over this is something else carried over from the war that’s either an extermination or an attempt to occupy IRON indefinitely without the use of a viceroy. Its an illegal occupation that’s not supported by most of the world and if the jokers who won the war think they can permanently ban aid to or from IRON forever because this is a continuation of that war they can kiss the collective @%& of everyone on the losing side.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='24 April 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1272048285' post='2272198']
So there you have it folks, Grämlins agree that sending aid to an alliance at war is an act of war. They can't possibly complain about having their tech supplies restricted by force now
[/quote]
Interesting turn of events. Wonder if any force would be used to restrict the flow of aid to either side, and what it would lead to. Never a dull moment on planet Avril.