Poison Clan Announcement

[Londo Mollari]

PC could have handled this in many ways, many of which would have resulted in a slagged Echelon and SBA. The way that PC did resolve this speaks highly of their character and is more generally proof that raiders do in fact care for the [OOC]player base of the game[/OOC]. Neither SBA nor Echelon is capable of forcing PC to pay reps, they are offering to take care of SBA because it's the right thing to do.

Well done, PC, for settling this issue according to your own moral code. It's a wonderful thing to live in a world without morality police.


[quote name='Fernando12' date='12 March 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1268407497' post='2223371']
This from an alliance that just screwed up 2 raids/wars in a row.

The only thing mediocre and micro is your respect for sovereign alliances.[/quote]

It's really a pity that you're too young to remember the days when the hegemony was in power. I think you would whine a lot less if you realized how good you actually have it these days. There was a time when you would have been ZIed for posting something like that.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1268418958' post='2223482']
PC could have handled this in many ways, many of which would have resulted in a slagged Echelon and SBA. The way that PC did resolve this speaks highly of their character and is more generally proof that raiders do in fact care for the [OOC]player base of the game[/OOC]. Neither SBA nor Echelon is capable of forcing PC to pay reps, they are offering to take care of SBA because it's the right thing to do.

Well done, PC, for settling this issue according to your own moral code. It's a wonderful thing to live in a world without morality police. [/quote]

You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.

[citizenkane]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1268419127' post='2223484']
You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.
[/quote]


This proves Londo's point.

[ktarthan]

Good job fellas. PC classy as always.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1268419127' post='2223484']
You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.
[/quote]

Honorable and classy. Two words that you are clearly an expert on, and whos opinion on matters of class and honor, are respected worldwide.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='citizenkane' date='12 March 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1268419247' post='2223486']
This proves Londo's point.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, can you read?


@Rush: You have to dig up 2-3 year old incidents to even try to give an example of my actions being even remotely similar to PC's or Athens.


To provide evidence of either Athens or PC acting without class, I just have to look in the first few pages of this forum.

Edited March 12, 2010 by x Tela x

[Bob Janova]

[quote]It's a wonderful thing to live in a world without morality police[/quote]
I'm sure it is for an alliance like yours.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1268419494' post='2223489']
I'm sorry, can you read?


@Rush: You have to dig up 2-3 year old incidents to even try to give an example of my actions being even remotely similar to PC's or Athens.


To provide evidence of either Athens or PC acting without class, I just have to look in the first few pages of this forum.
[/quote]

We are here for our enjoyment. Not to conform to your rules or anyone else's rules. You can take your talk of class and honor and shove it.

[deathcat]

Wow! Classy thread you guys got going here PC!!

to my friend Twist Good job on making good on reps.

*DC starts to sell a few bootleg copies of "Raids gone Wild", "Poison Clan Housewives: Seasons 1-3 (The early years)", "Infra: Destroy, Build, Destroy", and "Tech Wars: Episode I-VI"

[Uranus]

I am glad to see PC fixing what was wrong.
Though I don't agree with all the points you've made in the OP specificaly blaming SBA/Echelon I will say the Caffine one is probably spot on.

Good luck have fun and get those reps figured out in a timely manner.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='12 March 2010 - 07:10 PM' timestamp='1268421356' post='2223510']
We are here for our enjoyment. Not to conform to your rules or anyone else's rules. You can take your talk of class and honor and shove it.
[/quote]

Care to explain why you cried so much when you had 5/6s of your tech extorted then? I mean, NPO was here for enjoyment too, not to conform to your rules or your notions of right or wrong.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='12 March 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1268424036' post='2223543']
Care to explain why you cried so much when you had 5/6s of your tech extorted then? I mean, NPO was here for enjoyment too, not to conform to your rules or your notions of right or wrong.
[/quote]

You know, I don't remember seeing Athens posting all over these forums !@#$%*ing about paying reps in the nocb war. I really don't. We accepted defeat and payed the damn reps and moved on.

[In Spades]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1268419127' post='2223484']
You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.
[/quote]

You do realize the irony of this message, don't you? lulz

As per the Caffine thing, I think no one really cared because of how he acted prior to the karma war. We all thought "Who would really put him in charge of anything after all of this?" Question answered.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1268418958' post='2223482']
Well done, PC, for settling this issue according to your own moral code. It's a wonderful thing to live in a world [b]without morality police.[/b]
[/quote]

This is by far the best ironic statement making the rounds on the forums these days.

I hear that "let me do what I want or I'll pound you" isn't a moral position in any way.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='12 March 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1268424271' post='2223545']
You know, I don't remember seeing Athens posting all over these forums !@#$%*ing about paying reps in the nocb war. I really don't. We accepted defeat and payed the damn reps and moved on.
[/quote]

God bless the Amnesia. Sadly, I don't have the time nor the patience to go through the archives and find the back up what I just said, so I'll stop here. Though seeing any CnG saying "We do what we want because we want to do it" is particularly ironic, if not hilarious.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='In Spades' date='12 March 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1268424301' post='2223546']
You do realize the irony of this message, don't you? lulz

As per the Caffine thing, I think no one really cared because of how he acted prior to the karma war. We all thought "Who would really put him in charge of anything after all of this?" Question answered.
[/quote]

It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on. The guy has noticeably changed his stance and attitude in regards to FA. Really, looking at the logs, it's hard to see where PC finds the grounds to make their claims that Caffine ruined the talks, or something.

To the contrary, it's quite obvious that PC entered into the talks (Mostly starting with the Pezstar moderated log) with absolutely no intention of paying any reps. Why enter negotiations when you already know you won't pay? It's just a waste of time.

Anyway, I'm not saying Caffine is an angel, or even that I'm an angel, but 99% of this stuff is people judging him based on actions that are very far in the past. I realize that the history of any given ruler has a serious impact on their current persona, but people DO change. (inb4 "Yeah, cuz ur nawt in teh hegemonoicalz posishun nemore soz u cant pushez peoplz around!2111!0")

Anyway, I know Caffine would do the same, and probably has - to individuals at least, but I'm more than happy to do anything I can to make amends with those that I aggressively sought out in the past. Primarily NpO (Yes, we $%&@ed you over. I've said it countless times. I can't do anything else to make amends, can I?), Carpe Diem and the old Browncoats - they never deserved the negative attention I gave to them, and all that I can do is apologize again. Though, mostly BC, because it's one of the greatest themes any alliance has ever had.

[OOC]Joss Whedon is god[/OOC]

The point of my calling out those hailing PC for this thread is evident in the OP. Read it. Seriously. The OP is classless, without tact, and is merely bowing to the pressure of the OWF population, which is fine, but rather than actually admitting any wrongdoing, they halfheartedly admit that they made a mistake, then continue pointing fingers elsewhere, as if someone forced them to infringe upon a sovereign alliance.

[Vilien]

Good move.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Vilien' date='12 March 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1268425614' post='2223557']
Good move.
[/quote]

^ This man speaks the truth

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1268425422' post='2223554']
It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on. The guy has noticeably changed his stance and attitude in regards to FA. Really, looking at the logs, it's hard to see where PC finds the grounds to make their claims that Caffine ruined the talks, or something.

To the contrary, it's quite obvious that PC entered into the talks (Mostly starting with the Pezstar moderated log) with absolutely no intention of paying any reps. Why enter negotiations when you already know you won't pay? It's just a waste of time.

Anyway, I'm not saying Caffine is an angel, or even that I'm an angel, but 99% of this stuff is people judging him based on actions that are very far in the past. I realize that the history of any given ruler has a serious impact on their current persona, but people DO change. (inb4 "Yeah, cuz ur nawt in teh hegemonoicalz posishun nemore soz u cant pushez peoplz around!2111!0")

Anyway, I know Caffine would do the same, and probably has - to individuals at least, but I'm more than happy to do anything I can to make amends with those that I aggressively sought out in the past. Primarily NpO (Yes, we $%&@ed you over. I've said it countless times. I can't do anything else to make amends, can I?), Carpe Diem and the old Browncoats - they never deserved the negative attention I gave to them, and all that I can do is apologize again. Though, mostly BC, because it's one of the greatest themes any alliance has ever had.

[OOC]Joss Whedon is god[/OOC]

The point of my calling out those hailing PC for this thread is evident in the OP. Read it. Seriously. The OP is classless, without tact, and is merely bowing to the pressure of the OWF population, which is fine, but rather than actually admitting any wrongdoing, they halfheartedly admit that they made a mistake, then continue pointing fingers elsewhere, as if someone forced them to infringe upon a sovereign alliance.
[/quote]

Judging people based on their past, is quite simply the way it is. If your nation was looking to appoint... say a secretary of education...and the background vetting process turned up that the candidate had robbed a bank 10 years ago, and was fired for failing a drug test while serving as dean of your nations university 15 years ago...you wouldnt appoint him. Why? Because of his past. He wouldnt get the chance, even if almighty Admin himself had touched his heart and changed him.

The fact is, you can complain about people holding someone's past against them. But through acts of PZI, EZI, and constant siding with...of those who perpetuated such acts, you spent your entire past... turning a blind eye while your friends, and sometimes yourselves, held peoples pasts against them. Sometimes bathing in the light of hypocrisy can truly change someone. Has it, in this case(either you or Caffine)? I do not know. What I do know, is I have seen nothing to convince me, or even begin to convince me. Granted, I am nobody, and convincing me should be about as high on your priority list as passing a kidney stone. Time may someday prove you now love kittens and rescue puppies from sewer drains, until then, you would be better served to shut up with the "I've changed" nonsense, and let the actions talk.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='12 March 2010 - 10:55 AM' timestamp='1268413230' post='2223432']
And I can agree with that from experience. Diplomacy is always the first option PC tries... they just need someone willing to reciprocate.
[/quote]

If Diplomacy was their first option, they would have seen that SBA had been tied to Echelon, and checked with Echelon to see if that still held true. If it were their first option, then when contacted about the raids, they wouldn't have said "We won't pay anything, period".

PC agreed to pay because they were looking like fools who won't even follow their own written rules. Even then, they haven't said how much they will pay.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1268426885' post='2223566']
If Diplomacy was their first option, they would have seen that SBA had been tied to Echelon, and checked with Echelon to see if that still held true. If it were their first option, then when contacted about the raids, they wouldn't have said "We won't pay anything, period".

PC agreed to pay because they were looking like fools who won't even follow their own written rules. Even then, they haven't said how much they will pay.
[/quote]

Yet someone else who simply does not pay attention. Seriously...have you people been around? Do you really think PC cares what their public perception is? It is a stone cold fact, that me, a FA officer from Athens...cares more about PCs public image, than everyone in PC put together. They did this because they determined it was the right thing to do.

[Baldr]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1268425422' post='2223554']
It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on. The guy has noticeably changed his stance and attitude in regards to FA. Really, looking at the logs, it's hard to see where PC finds the grounds to make their claims that Caffine ruined the talks, or something.
[/quote]

Caffine looked pretty reasonable in the logs posted. PC didn't. Even after Caffine left, Pezstar (the moderator) said "It looks like you should pay at least some reps." And PC said no, no reps.

Whatever the problem people are having with Caffine is from something else - not from this incident.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1268418958' post='2223482



It's really a pity that you're too young to remember the days when the hegemony was in power. I think you would whine a lot less if you realized how good you actually have it these days. There was a time when you would have been ZIed for posting something like that.
[/quote]

Was anyone ever zi'ed for making a comment like that? I see that catch phrase used alot, "you used to be zi'ed for that", but honestly I can't think of a single instance where something like that happened. The closest I can think of is the shark week bs which was run mostly by goons.. maybe \m/?

[x Tela x]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1268426664' post='2223565']Time may someday prove you now love kittens and rescue puppies from sewer drains, until then, you would be better served to shut up with the "I've changed" nonsense, and let the actions talk.[/quote]

The fact is, I do love kittens, and while I don't frequent sewer drains (Gross!), I would most definitely save a puppy if I saw one trapped there.

Also, letting the actions speak is exactly why I made that post. Caffine has not been "his old self" in any talks in the last...year or more probably. Those are his actions. If you can't see them for what they are, I can't help.


Also, it may not matter in the grand scheme of things whether or not I convince YOU in particular, but honestly, you're just the type of person (non-gov, Echelon hating people in hostile alliances) I would most like to convince. I don't think that will happen, but there's nothing I can do, aside from (as you said), letting my/our actions speak for themselves. I feel that we've been doing this, and will continue to do so.

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1268419127' post='2223484']
You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.
[/quote]
Irony at its finest.