Poison Clan Announcement

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1268426885' post='2223566']
PC agreed to pay because they were looking like fools who won't even follow their own written rules. Even then, they haven't said how much they will pay.
[/quote]

PC agreed to pay because they decided that it was what they wanted to do.

As to "their own written rules" - maybe if some people would [i][url=http://poisonclan.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1047]go check out the PC forum instead of relying soley on the wiki for their info[/url][/i] they might find differently.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1268429932' post='2223593']
PC agreed to pay because they decided that it was what they wanted to do.

As to "their own written rules" - maybe if some people would [i][url=http://poisonclan.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1047]go check out the PC forum instead of relying soley on the wiki for their info[/url][/i] they might find differently.
[/quote]
No.
It is the alliance's responsibility to keep to their wiki up.

(Just having fun here. )

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='12 March 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1268430144' post='2223599']
No.
It is the alliance's responsibility to keep to their wiki up.

(Just having fun here. )
[/quote]

Curses, you saw through my troll right away!

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1268426885' post='2223566']
If Diplomacy was their first option, they would have seen that SBA had been tied to Echelon, and checked with Echelon to see if that still held true. If it were their first option, then when contacted about the raids, they wouldn't have said "We won't pay anything, period".

PC agreed to pay because they were looking like fools who won't even follow their own written rules. Even then, they haven't said how much they will pay.
[/quote]

I'm really not going to argue with you, as you have proven time and again you are unwilling to accept anything than your preconceived notions. That said, PC did not pay because they "were looking like fools." I know that for a fact. I know far more about this situation than you or the majority of the people posting. They paid the reps because they felt it was the right thing to do, no hidden agenda there.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='12 March 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1268424271' post='2223545']
You know, I don't remember seeing Athens posting all over these forums !@#$%*ing about paying reps in the nocb war. I really don't. We accepted defeat and payed the damn reps and moved on.
[/quote]

Please tell me you are joking. Please?

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1268432648' post='2223626']
Please tell me you are joking. Please?
[/quote]

There might of been a few, I honestly don't remember or give a damn, but at-least it doesn't come any where close to the amount of !@#$%*ing and moaning your alliance and your former allies have.

[silentkiller]

[quote]Please tell me you are joking. Please?[/quote]

Its like 2008 never happened.

Edited March 12, 2010 by silentkiller

[mhawk]

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='12 March 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1268432865' post='2223629']
There might of been a few, I honestly don't remember or give a damn, but at-least it doesn't come any where close to the amount of !@#$%*ing and moaning your alliance and your former allies have.
[/quote]
Dude you guys complained for a year. Take a look at karma at all the sigs about the athens reps. How many times stumpy referenced them ect. Your terms were also mentioned about why we should pay cng tech during the karma war talks. I'd also make a note you guys never did pay the full 4k tech to TPF after we looked into the matter a bit deeper. But lets not mix things up here, paying 16k is much different than paying several hundred thousand tech plus hundreds of millions.

Edited March 12, 2010 by mhawk

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1268419127' post='2223484']
You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.[/quote]

PC does have character. For instance, they don't live to EZI players out of the game or disband alliances, both of which were hallmarks of your former bloc One Vision. Had Karma not happened you would still be doing that kind of crap. Do you really think people will forget your crimes that easily? Do you think that those of us who remember them will let that happen?

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='12 March 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1268420850' post='2223502']
I'm sure it is for an alliance like yours.
[/quote]

It is for any alliance. The world will be a lot more interesting for alliances being allowed to live by their own ethical codes without threat of destruction, rather than forced into some arbitrary mode of behavior by a centralized outside force. The cultural diversity and uniqueness that will develop because of this will spur continued nation ruler interest in the affairs of Planet Bob, and probably also lead to further conflict on down the road. Perhaps it won't even come in the form of a war, who knows.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1268433294' post='2223636']
PC does have character. For instance, they don't live to EZI players out of the game or disband alliances, both of which were hallmarks of your former bloc One Vision. Had Karma not happened you would still be doing that kind of crap. Do you really think people will forget your crimes that easily? Do you think that those of us who remember them will let that happen?[/quote]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=53756

And you cancelled your EZi policy on 11 april, 10 days before Karma war. Man its like you got selective Amnesia or something.

Edited March 12, 2010 by silentkiller

[mhawk]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1268433294' post='2223636']
PC does have character. For instance, they don't live to EZI players out of the game or disband alliances.
[/quote]
These days y'all call it, "continue the war until it is won", "they gave up too easily, our terms were fair".

[ktarthan]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1268433567' post='2223642']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=53756

And you cancelled your EZi policy on 11 april, 10 days before Karma war. Man its like you got selective Amnesia or something.
[/quote]

How does Athens having had an EZI policy cause PC to have less character? I'm not sure what your angle is here.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1268434203' post='2223650']
How does Athens having had an EZI policy cause PC to have less character? I'm not sure what your angle is here.
[/quote]

I direct you to this post:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=82518&view=findpost&p=2223636

Reading just 1 post above mine shouldnt be too hard now, should it?

Edited March 12, 2010 by silentkiller

[ktarthan]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1268434295' post='2223654']
I direct you to this post:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=82518&view=findpost&p=2223636

Reading just 1 post above mine shouldnt be too hard now, should it?
[/quote]

I direct you to this post:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=82518&view=findpost&p=2223650

It has a question in it. Answering it shouldn't be too hard now, should it?

I see that the person asserting that PC has character is in Athens. However they are talking about the character of PC, and not Athens. Either your point has some subtext that I'm missing or it's a really bad rebuttal.

[Hymenbreach]

I was there when Caffine1 kickbanned a couple of PC'ers from their communication channel for no real good reason. I judged this to be a foolish action, as did his superior who went to apologize for him. So perhaps he as a little farther to go to attain wisdom.

Yes, PC also kicked people from their channel for weak reasons. That also wasn't very clever.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Hymenbreach

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1268432648' post='2223626']
Please tell me you are joking. Please?
[/quote]
I don't know if he's joking, but I'm laughing pretty hard at your sig.

[Otherworld]

[quote]Yes, PC also kicked people from their channel for weak reasons. That also wasn't very clever. [/quote]

To be more precise they banned anybody with the Echelon tag from their chan for the reason "I dont like you"

[Baldr]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='12 March 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1268430683' post='2223608']
They paid the reps because they felt it was the right thing to do, no hidden agenda there.
[/quote]

If they thought it was the right thing to do *before* the long public discussion, that would be believable. But they said "No reps, nothing" in private when first approached, and they continued that for days in public. Then they changed their minds. If you want to pretend that the public thread and the general perception of what PC did had nothing to do with them changing their minds, you can, but it won't change what actually happened.


[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1268433294' post='2223636']
It is for any alliance. The world will be a lot more interesting for alliances being allowed to live by their own ethical codes without threat of destruction, rather than forced into some arbitrary mode of behavior by a centralized outside force. [/quote]

That's funny. SBA was just doing their own thing, when they got attacked. So was Knights of Ni, so was FoB.

You talk about people being able to allowed to live without threat, without force, but what you actually do is to find people who haven't done anything to you and then you go attack them simply because you are bigger than them.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1268434690' post='2223657']
I direct you to this post:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=82518&view=findpost&p=2223650

It has a question in it. Answering it shouldn't be too hard now, should it?

I see that the person asserting that PC has character is in Athens. However they are talking about the character of PC, and not Athens. Either your point has some subtext that I'm missing or it's a really bad rebuttal.
[/quote]

*sigh*

I guess I'll have to explain it to you. See Londo said PC has character because they dont P/Ezi people like ex-hegemony. And I showed that infact Athen did the same thing. Now either Londo is sayin that Athens itself didnt have any character/honour or he is talking out of his $@! again(something he clearly loves). I'll let you be the judge of that.


[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='12 March 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1268434701' post='2223660']
I don't know if he's joking, but I'm laughing pretty hard at your sig.
[/quote]

Yeah get in line to criticise my [i][b]War[/b][/i] time sig. I guess I am not one of those people who cares much about updating their sigs. Although it is getting tiring replying to posts about my sig maybe one of these days I'll just have to update it

Edited March 12, 2010 by silentkiller

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1268434951' post='2223664']
If they thought it was the right thing to do *before* the long public discussion, that would be believable. But they said "No reps, nothing" in private when first approached, and they continued that for days in public. Then they changed their minds. If you want to pretend that the public thread and the general perception of what PC did had nothing to do with them changing their minds, you can, but it won't change what actually happened.
[/quote]
Newsflash: People change their minds, often for their own reasons. News at 11.

I don't know how so many people are missing it, but I thought it is pretty clear from the OP that PC is saying that they have decided to pay reps [i]despite[/i] the public thread, not [i]due to[/i] it.

[quote name='Baldr' date='12 March 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1268434951' post='2223664']
That's funny. SBA was just doing their own thing, when they got attacked. So was Knights of Ni, so was FoB.

You talk about people being able to allowed to live without threat, without force, but what you actually do is to find people who haven't done anything to you and then you go attack them simply because you are bigger than them.
[/quote]

Correction, because we are bigger than them [b]and[/b] they have something we want.

[TheEraser]

make this situation easier for everyone PC, just roll Echelon

[KaitlinK]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1268428561' post='2223580']
The fact is, I do love kittens, and while I don't frequent sewer drains (Gross!), I would most definitely save a puppy if I saw one trapped there.

Also, letting the actions speak is exactly why I made that post. Caffine has not been "his old self" in any talks in the last...year or more probably. Those are his actions. If you can't see them for what they are, I can't help.
[/quote]

I knew there was something different about you...
In all seriousness this isnt something you can help with, though it is kind of you to go to bat for your alliance-mate. I like Echelon and I have a great respect for Neo, but like others I have to question the wisdom of having Caffine any where near FA. I wont waste time making a humorus analogy but too many have experienced Caffine's style of diplomacy and it didnt do your alliance justice.

Glad to read this announcement PC. I wish you and SBA all the best in reaching an agreement that works for both parties as soon as possible.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='12 March 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1268435258' post='2223667']
I guess I'll have to explain it to you. See Londo said PC has character because they dont P/Ezi people like ex-hegemony. And I showed that infact Athen did the same thing. Now either Londo is sayin that Athens itself didnt have any character/honour or he is talking out of his $@! again(something he clearly loves). I'll let you be the judge of that.
[/quote]
Thanks for (sort of) answering my question and confirming what I thought - it was just a really bad rebuttal and you didn't address Londo's statement at all.

[In Spades]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1268425422' post='2223554']
It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on. The guy has noticeably changed his stance and attitude in regards to FA. Really, looking at the logs, it's hard to see where PC finds the grounds to make their claims that Caffine ruined the talks, or something.

To the contrary, it's quite obvious that PC entered into the talks (Mostly starting with the Pezstar moderated log) with absolutely no intention of paying any reps. Why enter negotiations when you already know you won't pay? It's just a waste of time.

Anyway, I'm not saying Caffine is an angel, or even that I'm an angel, but 99% of this stuff is people judging him based on actions that are very far in the past. I realize that the history of any given ruler has a serious impact on their current persona, but people DO change. (inb4 "Yeah, cuz ur nawt in teh hegemonoicalz posishun nemore soz u cant pushez peoplz around!2111!0")

Anyway, I know Caffine would do the same, and probably has - to individuals at least, but I'm more than happy to do anything I can to make amends with those that I aggressively sought out in the past. Primarily NpO (Yes, we $%&@ed you over. I've said it countless times. I can't do anything else to make amends, can I?), Carpe Diem and the old Browncoats - they never deserved the negative attention I gave to them, and all that I can do is apologize again. Though, mostly BC, because it's one of the greatest themes any alliance has ever had.

[OOC]Joss Whedon is god[/OOC]

The point of my calling out those hailing PC for this thread is evident in the OP. Read it. Seriously. The OP is classless, without tact, and is merely bowing to the pressure of the OWF population, which is fine, but rather than actually admitting any wrongdoing, they halfheartedly admit that they made a mistake, then continue pointing fingers elsewhere, as if someone forced them to infringe upon a sovereign alliance.
[/quote]

I've had my own dealings with Caffine back in my government days and my own reasons why I won't let him move on. My bad opinion about Caffine comes from a primary source, rather than the secondary crap that most people are "privileged" to, but I understand where you're coming from. I do however see how Caffine could PO PC off so much that they had to make it a point on that couldn't be relayed anywhere else but the OWF. I was that angry + more on more than one occasion and as a result; developed a distaste for Echelon that took over a year to stop caring about.

On that note, you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy and a credit to your alliance. And that's saying alot on the OWF. Please carry on.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='12 March 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1268435526' post='2223674']
Thanks for (sort of) answering my question and confirming what I thought - it was just a really bad rebuttal and you didn't address Londo's statement at all.
[/quote]

Your opinion has been noted. It shall [b]not[/b] be taken into account next time a post is made by me.

Thank you,
Sk