Accepting the Consequenses of War

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='06 March 2010 - 08:25 AM' timestamp='1267885801' post='2215885']
Fixed that for you.
[/quote]
This is one of the worst conspiracy theories I've heard. Seriously.

CDT could just as easily "win" from this.

Edited March 6, 2010 by Rey the Great

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Rey the Great' date='06 March 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1267900225' post='2216105']
This is one of the worst conspiracy theories I've heard. Seriously.

CDT could just as easily "win" from this.
[/quote]
If you didn't notice, most of us already got walloped.

And it's not a conspiracy theory, just a lucky series of stupid actions that play right into the hands of Superfriends.

<@Jim> A situation where NpO fires its 4200 nukes at TOP's 4100 sounds like christmas
<&Delta1212[RIA]> Mostly, I find our position very troublesome because while we're technically aligned closer to Citadel through Fark, Citadel coming out victorious in a war against FB/C&G is going to wind up killing us :/

[DogeWilliam]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' date='06 March 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1267895764' post='2216046']
First I get a warning about the TERRIFYING SPECTRE of SuperFriends,
[/quote]

Yea, I wouldn't be so terrified of SF either.
Though it's obvious to see who the winner of this war is. NPO/any alliance which attached itself to CG but didn't take much damage.

[meyer]

lol, nice biased poll you got there

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='06 March 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1267894543' post='2216029']
Your paranoia is showing.
[/quote]
Seriously? [u]You[/u] are saying [i]that[/i]?

Did Fark make you say that with their mind-control device?

Edited March 6, 2010 by Arcturus Jefferson

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='06 March 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1267894543' post='2216029']
Your paranoia is showing.
[/quote]
All it shows is that he read TOP's Declaration of War.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='07 March 2010 - 07:44 AM' timestamp='1267904936' post='2216163']
If you didn't notice, most of us already got walloped.

And it's not a conspiracy theory, just a lucky series of stupid actions that play right into the hands of Superfriends.

<@Jim> A situation where NpO fires its 4200 nukes at TOP's 4100 sounds like christmas
<&Delta1212[RIA]> Mostly, I find our position very troublesome because while we're technically aligned closer to Citadel through Fark, Citadel coming out victorious in a war against FB/C&G is going to wind up killing us :/
[/quote]
So Delta doesn't particularly like the idea of backing Citadel. Fascinating.

[neneko]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='06 March 2010 - 05:42 PM' timestamp='1267894020' post='2216020']
The smart thing to do would have been to peace out right away with TOP, and get them to pay some reps for the attack, before any nukes got tossed.
[/quote]
That offer was never on the table. The only option according to them up until a week or so ago was white peace.

I know I've said this before and I'll likely say it again. Why would we let them get away with trying to roll us when things doesn't work out their way? Letting them regroup would be a worse move than the one that started this war.

Also we can't peace out without the approval of our fark overlords. They're planning to make everyone in cn write a beer review and then they'll publish them all in a book and take all the money.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='neneko' date='06 March 2010 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1267910031' post='2216247']
That offer was never on the table. The only option according to them up until a week or so ago was white peace.
[/quote]
Actually, that's an outright lie. From the end of the fourth day of the war, probably even before, our Grandmaster made it quite clear that [i]our[/i] offer was a complete white peace but [i]that we were open to discuss other offers[/i]. It took you guys close to two weeks to make an initial offer after that.

[Duke William I]

[quote name='Krashnaia' date='02 March 2010 - 03:13 AM' timestamp='1267521491' post='2211122']
Well, fact is:

- If you keep fighting, CnG wins.
- If you stop fighting and pay the reps, CnG wins.

Since it's a lose-lose scenario for you, you should think wich way do you lose more.

- Surrendering now, you get to keep your warchests, and get to start rebuilding right on.
- Keep fighting, you will miss many months of tax collection, will have to begin rebuilding a lot of months later than CnG, you'll begin to lose members in high numbers... and you have no guarentee you'll not end up forced to reps anyway.
[/quote]
So TOP has the option of 1)having to pay reps to CnG for who knows how long (and as result only being able to regrown Infar not tech) 2) nuking CnG all that time and taking negligible damages(there is only so far you can beat down a nation before it stops mattering)

Something tells me they will go for the nuking.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='DogeWilliam' date='06 March 2010 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1267904958' post='2216164']
Yea, I wouldn't be so terrified of SF either.
Though it's obvious to see who the winner of this war is. NPO/any alliance which attached itself to CG but didn't take much damage.
[/quote]Them's the breaks.


[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='06 March 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1267908400' post='2216218']
All it shows is that he read TOP's Declaration of War.
[/quote]She, but yeah that's prettymuch where I got these ideas from.


[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='06 March 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1267911328' post='2216266']
Actually, that's an outright lie. From the end of the fourth day of the war, probably even before, our Grandmaster made it quite clear that [i]our[/i] offer was a complete white peace but [i]that we were open to discuss other offers[/i]. It took you guys close to two weeks to make an initial offer after that.
[/quote]A TOP government member told me in a query the war would "never end in any way other than white peace".

In the interest of full disclosure, it was Avernite.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='06 March 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1267891923' post='2215990']
We're in an OOC forum. So, yeah I am. People reacted similarly when I was calling a Pacific-Polar showdown all but days after the UJW ended.

"What? No way! That would never happen."
[/quote]

I don't get it, why do you think that?

The ex-Hegemony/CDT/CC cluster or whatever you want to call it (seriously people get a name) is still pretty much intact. Your side still dislikes us, and we still dislike you. Meanwhile SF and C&G have fought together and kicked some $@!. I don't see the logic in predicting we're more likely to end up fighting each other than our "traditional" enemies. It would be stupid to fight each other when a large portion of the rest of the world wants us dead.

What do you base your theory on?

Edited March 7, 2010 by Lord Brendan

[Jazzy95]

I said continue to pound CnG but that's cuz there is no:
"Loose the remaining dignity and pixels we have left" choice

Now, prior to this war, I had utmost respect for TOP even after they rejected me ( ) BUT you guys just keep making stupid choices and making your allies like TSO suffer

It's times like this that I wish The Continuum or even just NPO (And they hate me) could DoW and end this damn thing


Pre-Apologies for grammar, spelling or parenthesis

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='06 March 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1267923368' post='2216440']
I don't get it, why do you think that?

The ex-Hegemony/CDT/CC cluster or whatever you want to call it (seriously people get a name) is still pretty much intact. Your side still dislikes us, and we still dislike you. Meanwhile SF and C&G have fought together and kicked some $@!. I don't see the logic in predicting we're more likely to end up fighting each other than our "traditional" enemies. It would be stupid to fight each other when a large portion of the rest of the world wants us dead.

What do you base your theory on?
[/quote]
Frankly, before this war there isn't anyone that we feel we "hated" on your side of the war. Even MK, which was borderline hostile to us since around the time of the TPF War, we pretty much minded our own business. Sure, we aren't CnG's biggest fans right now (although we've certainly made some friends in the war) as we fight a war to survive, but they aren't even on the top of our threat radar. Our dislike for you seems to be mostly in your own minds, at least speaking from a TORN perspective.

Meanwhile, after this war Superfriends is now the biggest power in the game, CnG second or third biggest. You've pretty much got the market on excitement cornered if you stay together, and we'll just live in a world without major wars where you make the rules. I know from experience that doesn't last. That is all I'll comment on publicly.

[shilo]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='07 March 2010 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1267925678' post='2216473']
Frankly, before this war there isn't anyone that we feel we "hated" on your side of the war. Even MK, which was borderline hostile to us since around the time of the TPF War, we pretty much minded our own business. Sure, we aren't CnG's biggest fans right now (although we've certainly made some friends in the war) as we fight a war to survive, but they aren't even on the top of our threat radar. Our dislike for you seems to be mostly in your own minds, at least speaking from a TORN perspective.

Meanwhile, after this war Superfriends is now the biggest power in the game, CnG second or third biggest. You've pretty much got the market on excitement cornered if you stay together, and we'll just live in a world without major wars where you make the rules. I know from experience that doesn't last. That is all I'll comment on publicly.
[/quote]
A Pax Supercomplaints? A golden future for us all

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='06 March 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1267925678' post='2216473']
Frankly, before this war there isn't anyone that we feel we "hated" on your side of the war. Even MK, which was borderline hostile to us since around the time of the TPF War, we pretty much minded our own business. Sure, we aren't CnG's biggest fans right now (although we've certainly made some friends in the war) as we fight a war to survive, but they aren't even on the top of our threat radar. Our dislike for you seems to be mostly in your own minds, at least speaking from a TORN perspective.

Meanwhile, after this war Superfriends is now the biggest power in the game, CnG second or third biggest. You've pretty much got the market on excitement cornered if you stay together, and we'll just live in a world without major wars where you make the rules. I know from experience that doesn't last. That is all I'll comment on publicly.
[/quote]

Obviously I wasn't referring solely to TORN.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='06 March 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1267927308' post='2216511']
Obviously I wasn't referring solely to TORN.
[/quote]
Irrelevant to my larger point.

[Drai]

[quote name='Duke William I' date='06 March 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1267912547' post='2216282']
So TOP has the option of 1)having to pay reps to CnG for who knows how long (and as result only being able to regrown Infar not tech) 2) nuking CnG all that time and taking negligible damages(there is only so far you can beat down a nation before it stops mattering)

Something tells me they will go for the nuking.
[/quote]
They have a ways to go before they lose their tech, which is what I presume you were referring to when you said it stops mattering.

[neneko]

[quote name='Duke William I' date='06 March 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1267912547' post='2216282']
So TOP has the option of 1)having to pay reps to CnG for who knows how long (and as result only being able to regrown Infar not tech) 2) nuking CnG all that time and taking negligible damages(there is only so far you can beat down a nation before it stops mattering)

Something tells me they will go for the nuking.
[/quote]
Their ample supply of tech has made sure that they can entertain us for at least another month or two.

They'll pay reps either way. If they choose to do it once we ZT the entire alliance good for them. Makes the tech that much cheaper for them to buy.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='neneko' date='07 March 2010 - 03:30 AM' timestamp='1267932929' post='2216589']
Their ample supply of tech has made sure that they can entertain us for at least another month or two.

They'll pay reps either way. If they choose to do it once we ZT the entire alliance good for them. Makes the tech that much cheaper for them to buy.
[/quote]

VieTOP?

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='neneko' date='07 March 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1267932929' post='2216589']
Their ample supply of tech has made sure that they can entertain us for at least another month or two.

They'll pay reps either way. If they choose to do it once we ZT the entire alliance good for them. Makes the tech that much cheaper for them to buy.
[/quote]
I agree I can see this war going on till nothing is left of TOP but a couple of dozen Zero infra, Zero tech nations. Even though victory is impossible pride will keep them going and this war will keep going indefinitely even though it could easily be avoided.

Their fate will be a slow death as their members surrender individually, while a few die hards hang on as a bottom tier alliance that is used as a practice range to train new recruits in the C&G alliances that have gotten over the war and rebuilt long ago.

And perhaps they few that survive can do what FAN did and simply wait for C&G to collapse and the leading alliances of it to jump ship or be crippled and unable to enforce this, but this could take years to happen.

Or TOP could accept the inevitable and negotiate and get terms and totally avoid this fate. Then get on with rebuilding with everyone else.

Personally I hope TOP negotiates and rebuilds since I happen to agree with a lot of what they say and it would be a shame to see them get trampled for the sake of pride.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='06 March 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1267937061' post='2216655']
VieTOP?
[/quote]
We prefer TOPerdämerung.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='06 March 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1267923368' post='2216440']
The ex-Hegemony/CDT/CC cluster or whatever you want to call it (seriously people get a name) is still pretty much intact. Your side still dislikes us, and we still dislike you. Meanwhile SF and C&G have fought together and kicked some $@!. I don't see the logic in predicting we're more likely to end up fighting each other than our "traditional" enemies. It would be stupid to fight each other when a large portion of the rest of the world wants us dead.
[/quote]
bigwoody thinks C&G will still be powerful enough to be a close second to SF. I don't think so. I think you're going to get killed, and be kept around by SF as loyal meatshields: useful but generally irrelevant.

If TOP was going to pay the 500K or so, he'd be right though.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='07 March 2010 - 07:26 AM' timestamp='1267968647' post='2216827']
bigwoody thinks C&G will still be powerful enough to be a close second to SF. I don't think so. I think you're going to get killed, and be kept around by SF as loyal meatshields: useful but generally irrelevant.

If TOP was going to pay the 500K or so, he'd be right though.
[/quote]
I said second or third, not close second. Distant second at best by now.

[shilo]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='07 March 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1267974950' post='2216858']
I said second or third, not close second. Distant second at best by now.
[/quote]
What I do wonder is that: Do they realize that while they keep dishing out damage to us, they are taking at least as much as well, incase of a turtling nations even more? And thus weaken themselves daily by insisting on reparations that simply are beyond reason? I hope they do at one point.

Edited March 7, 2010 by shilo