supercoolyellow Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) I noticed all the war time World Affairs posts were slowing down, so I thought it was time to bring back the policy corner. Today's topic is more a leadership question, then just downright policy. Every alliance has loose cannons. They're usually the most active player, and many times have tons of knowledge about the game. Tons of passion also can mean tons of potential, but they're really divisive. My question to all of you, how are loose cannons are best dealt with, within an alliance? I know at MCXA we have been a bit infamous for having one of the greatest loose cannons ever, Francesca. Her and some other people like herself are part of the reason for the TSO split. Needless to say how an alliance and its leaders deal with loose cannons is very important thing. Personally I don't have all the answers, but I do have a few rules I follow. [ooc] As a Christian of the few values I bring to the game from my faith is how to deal with conflict. If I have a personal problem with someone I try to go to them personally, and not bring that problem out into the public, or in CN, the forums. [/ooc] I find this avoids stirring the pot or personally offending anyone. I also think allowing freedom of speech and respecting people opinions no matter how hard you disagree with them helps as well. What are some success stories that you know about of some one who had trouble getting along with other people, but eventually turn out to be of great value to their alliance. There are two alliances I am very interested in. Athens and NSO both seem to be alliances that have, and attract a lot of the loose cannons types. Sorry if any Athens or NSO members are cringing at being clumped together :lol1:. Moldavi, and Mollari, how do the two of you deal with loose cannons inside your alliance? Edited February 3, 2013 by supercoolyellow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) We had wickedj, astronaut jones and Jack Diorno all under one roof at the same time. It doesn't get more loose than that. (unless Penky had joined earlier) edit: I have just now realized the determining factor is the letter J. Beware! Edited February 25, 2010 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Finding good leadership who can guide the person to use their energy for the benefit of the alliance is crucial. Each person being different, it requires a high level of dynamic leadership on a case by case basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastico Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='Ashen' date='24 February 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1267071092' post='2202528'] Finding good leadership who can guide the person to use their energy for the benefit of the alliance is crucial. Each person being different, it requires a high level of dynamic leadership on a case by case basis. [/quote] I like this answer since it also reveals a fundamental problem with the OP's question. Referring to someone as a "loose cannon" seems mostly to be a verbal tactic to quiet opinions one does not want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Name Is Romance Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 First off, being Christian isn't out of character. There's a reason your nation can pick its own national religion. Second; I personally like "loose canons" they may cause you, leadership, headaches but it is never dull. Trying to silence them would be wrong in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup4l33t3ki11a Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Loose cannons... that's a very loose definition SCY... can you clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='Sup4l33t3ki11a' date='25 February 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1267079406' post='2202778'] Loose cannons... that's a very loose definition SCY... can you clarify? [/quote] Hey sup4l33k3killa normally I like being vague. Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well. Does that definition supervise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastico Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1267079940' post='2202784'] Hey sup4l33k3killa normally I like being vague. Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well. Does that definition supervise? [/quote] I think you just described a very large percentage of the leaders who visit these halls. What to do, indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sup4l33t3ki11a Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 06:35 AM' timestamp='1267079940' post='2202784'] Hey sup4l33k3killa normally I like being vague. Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well. Does that definition supervise? [/quote] Yes, that definition supervises I suppose that these members are quite prone to creating factions and spliting alliances down the middle right? 'tis a shame when we can't all get along. I might mention, it takes two to start such a conflict, someone tends to do something that this member strongly disagrees with and it goes on like that.. I suppose? As to what we can do to them? The Draw and quater method seems to work well... or play it TSO style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1267079940' post='2202784'] Hey sup4l33k3killa normally I like being vague. Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well. Does that definition supervise? [/quote] i am not sure if this is a good definition. personally i would go with a vocal individual who can cause headaches for their gov. this does not mean they are a divisive member prone to conflicts and easily offended. i would use that definition for a sub-culture of the loose cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Asside from what doesn't work, as a lot of ppl have been posting. What does help a loose cannon to be a good member? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastico Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1267081188' post='2202815'] Asside from what doesn't work, as a lot of ppl have been posting. What does help a loose cannon to be a good member? [/quote] Giving them more and more responsibilities usually does the trick since they usually are very motivated. That way you learn if they are being divisive for the sake of being divisive or if they really want to make a difference. If they are being divisive for the sake of being divisive and sabotage their responsibilities, you tell them to find another alliance. Either way, problem solved. Edited February 25, 2010 by Fantastico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Maybe we will get all loose canny on you and roll you. But seriously, Londo isn't as bad as you all think he is. He is our leader along with Max and we have our utmost confidence in their leadership. They are both counter balanced by the regents and me. So it all works out in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='Jgoods45' date='25 February 2010 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1267089046' post='2202866'] Maybe we will get all loose canny on you and roll you. But seriously, Londo isn't as bad as you all think he is. He is our leader along with Max and we have our utmost confidence in their leadership. They are both counter balanced by the regents [b]and me[/b]. So it all works out in the end. [/quote] That's the problem right there If you have an individual member who is a loose canon (imo- that means their actions and views do not necessarily correspond with the alliance's) I would remove them from positions of power that would indicate that the alliance sanctions their actions. OWF censorship etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Death II Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Just to prove SCY's point, Ive been in both alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='King Death II' date='25 February 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1267099611' post='2202922'] Just to prove SCY's point, Ive been in both alliances [/quote] Yeah but which alliance haven't you been in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 [quote name='Jgoods45' date='25 February 2010 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1267089046' post='2202866'] Maybe we will get all loose canny on you and roll you. But seriously, Londo isn't as bad as you all think he is. He is our leader along with Max and we have our utmost confidence in their leadership. They are both counter balanced by the regents and me. So it all works out in the end. [/quote] 1. is copyrighted by MK. You now owe them 50 tech. 2. I hope I didn't come off like I was saying anything negative about Londo. I have a lot of respect for him and genuinely want to know how he personally works with loose cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Loose cannons are great, they should be nurtured and sent out into the world to cause mayhem. Without them you eliminate a very real part of the entertainment value we derive from these forums. There are degree's of loose cannons, some of them operate with a specific adgenda or have a rational for thier behavior, some just suffer from ADD and cant help themselves. Alliance leaders need loose cannons the community/subcommunities need activity, loose cannons provide that and more! So you dont deal with them, you do your best to harnes thier activity and net you a positive gain. Shouting them down kills activity, and activity is the holly grail of alliance leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Burn them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Loose cannons are generally the "internationals" that Vladimir has blogged about; they've been in lots of alliances and are more creatures of the OWF than of any particular, unified ideology. There's an egg/chicken debate to be had over why a loose cannon goes from one place to another--are they worldwise wanderers because they don't fit anywhere, or do they not fit anywhere because they're worldwise wanderers? I've been glad to play loose cannon in every alliance I've been in post-GOONS1. There are only two ways to deal with a loose cannon: either bolt them to the deck by putting them in gov, thereby canonizing their loose-connonry, or kick/run them out. If you do neither, chances are the loose cannon gets tired of your meek alliance and the weekly "come to Jesus" queries and leaves on his own accord, but not before causing you a lot of headaches. I personally got to the point where it was time to legitimize my worldview by making it an alliance policy; it got to where invites to alliances were merely people wanting a Schattenmann hood ornament. I'm sure that other loose cannons like Doitzel, ChairmanHal, Rebel Virginia have also experienced all these things to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 (edited) [color="#0000FF"]Schattenmann, I am not sure which I resent more. Being called a "loose cannon" or placing last on your list. That said, I consider myself to be one of the more level headed and consistent people you will ever meet. I do not fit any definition of "loose cannon."[/color] Edited February 26, 2010 by Rebel Virginia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 It depends how 'loose' they are. Having someone around who can fire shots that aren't necessarily the party line, both internally and externally, can be useful for stimulating debate and getting people active. But if they're so loose that they refuse to actually be a part of the alliance (for example actively destroying relations with allies, not fighting in wars etc) then you need to move them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Dwight_D._Eisenhower%2C_official_photo_portrait%2C_May_29%2C_1959.jpg/250px-Dwight_D._Eisenhower%2C_official_photo_portrait%2C_May_29%2C_1959.jpg[/img] This guy would say let the loose cannons like... [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Pattonphoto.jpg/200px-Pattonphoto.jpg[/img] This one.... roll all over your enemy. Then try to find a strong enough leash to keep them in the corner and from being excessively Epic enough to totally ruin the world around you. *Grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Divisive members are divisive because they piss off everyone else and, in a way, make them wary of disagreeing because of the argumentative excrement storm that always follows. You lay down the law and make it expressly clear what type of conduct is acceptable and what type of conduct is not. Don't restrict their speech, but also don't let them try to restrict others or belittle their opinions. Also, never be afraid to kick someone out when enough is enough and idiocy goes rampant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonely Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' date='25 February 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1267161334' post='2204484'] I'm sure that other loose cannons like Doitzel, ChairmanHal, Rebel Virginia have also experienced all these things to a degree. [/quote] I hate to admit it, but ChairmanHal is one of my favorite posters on these forums. Reading his posts is a guilty pleasure, a bit like masturbation. Edited February 27, 2010 by The Lonely Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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