Loose Cannons?

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267079940' post='2202784']
normally I like being vague. Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well.

Does that definition supervise?
[/quote]

Actually, no. That's not a very good definition at all.

A loose cannon is the kind of person who believes the rules do not apply to them. Instead of waiting for the chain-of-command to do its job, they attempt to establish both policies and procedures in the immediate absence of a superior. They attack when told to stay put. They speak when told to shut up. They are, ultimately, guided by their gut. And so on....

As mentioned earlier there are only two ways to deal with them: [b]promote[/b] or [b]expel[/b]. As Nordreich's Kaiser I had the opportunity to do both of these things. And, indeed, it's quite likely that's how I managed to become Kaiser in the first place. Nothing turns a radical into a conservative faster than putting them in charge.

[PhysicsJunky]

It is amazing how a direct and courteous talk from somebody they respect will often calm things down enough to stay within acceptable bounds. The problem usually arises when you have very few people they share a mutual respect for within the alliance, or they simply respect nothing, at which point you need to consider why they're in your alliance in the first place.

It worth noting some very successful and relatively popular (at least internally) alliance leaders once got their start as "loose cannons". I remember people trying to get Randomly Jim out of Fark at one point in time.

[Bill Wallace]

[quote name='The Lonely Man' date='27 February 2010 - 03:35 AM' timestamp='1267263516' post='2206319']Reading his posts is a guilty pleasure, a bit like masturbation.[/quote]

Good god man. Do you realize you said that out loud?

[Mathias]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='25 February 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267079940' post='2202784']
Lets say a very vocal yet divisive member who is very prone to start and not give up conflicts, usually easily offended as well.
[/quote]

For this definition, and assuming I'm an alliance leader:

For one, I wouldn't deal with people who are easily offended. If it's an IC alliance politics discussion, I don't care how many people are telling you you're wrong, as long as they're not hurling insults you need to fend for yourself. An IC argument can get as heated as the two sides want as long as it remains civil. You can be passionate about an issue without hurling expletives, and as long as it remains about the issues and doesn't become nothing more than blatant character attacks I wouldn't see a problem with it.

That description fits more internal alliance politics. When it comes to posting on these boards, I would let my members say anything they want with three stipulations. Stop when I say stop, and don't make any whiny posts about how mean another alliance is being to you; and don't make public any internal alliance business.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Mathias

[Londo Mollari]

Why do you see Athens as having a lot of loose cannons? What about NpO and TOP?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='03 March 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1267673506' post='2213284']
Why do you see Athens as having a lot of loose cannons? What about NpO and TOP?
[/quote]

I guess when I saw the egg I assumed the chicken. Athens seams to create a lot of waves, and by doing so bringing a lot of already developed nations into your fold. This in my mind would especially draw an inordinate number of alliance jumpers, which are many times loose cannons.

Is that a bad observation?

edit: Grammar phail

Edited March 4, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[Ivan Moldavi]

I consider myself a loose cannon on occasion so I haven't really put a lot of thought into handling the others that have been part of my alliance. What can they do that I couldn't possibly do in their place?

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='03 March 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1267677471' post='2213354']
I consider myself a loose cannon on occasion so I haven't really put a lot of thought into handling the others that have been part of my alliance. What can they do that I couldn't possibly do in their place?
[/quote]

Precisely the same thing you would, only without your prior OK.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='03 March 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1267677573' post='2213356']
Precisely the same thing you would, only without your prior OK.
[/quote]
Insubordination isn't the same as being a loose cannon though.

For me, when I said something like, "NSO will take on any alliance willing to fight us one on one" I meant it and would have gone through with such an edict, as I was willing to do with RIA, even if it meant our destruction. It isn't just a decision to do something that you know you shouldn't or aren't allowed to do. It is the resolve and choice of will to do something that no one thinks you should do but you will do it anyway to prove a point, make a statement, or whatever.

Most of the people labelled as loose cannons are just people that are insubordinate or not even in a position of sufficient authority to actually do something about the bravado they preach. A real loose cannon has the means to make his visions of fire a reality.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='26 February 2010 - 07:25 AM' timestamp='1267190934' post='2204853']
[color="#0000FF"]Schattenmann, I am not sure which I resent more. Being called a "loose cannon" or placing last on your list.

That said, I consider myself to be one of the more level headed and consistent people you will ever meet. I do not fit any definition of "loose cannon."[/color]
[/quote]
He saves the best for last my good man.

Shantatnamanantan knows all about your loose cannons already.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Earogema

[Lonely]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' date='03 March 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1267632501' post='2212654']
Good god man. Do you realize you said that out loud?
[/quote]

I derive entertainment from making you feel uncomfortable.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='03 March 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1267677835' post='2213364']
Insubordination isn't the same as being a loose cannon though.

For me, when I said something like, "NSO will take on any alliance willing to fight us one on one" I meant it and would have gone through with such an edict, as I was willing to do with RIA, even if it meant our destruction. It isn't just a decision to do something that you know you shouldn't or aren't allowed to do. It is the resolve and choice of will to do something that no one thinks you should do but you will do it anyway to prove a point, make a statement, or whatever.

Most of the people labelled as loose cannons are just people that are insubordinate or not even in a position of sufficient authority to actually do something about the bravado they preach. A real loose cannon has the means to make his visions of fire a reality.
[/quote]

So how do you handle members of your alliance that cause internal drama? Does the challenge system help avoid internal drama at all?

[Reason]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='04 March 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1267679740' post='2213415']
So how do you handle members of your alliance that cause internal drama? Does the challenge system help avoid internal drama at all?
[/quote]
From my point of view the answer is not really. This is because those people who are loose cannons can always challenge their superiors for their positions (with a few limits) if they feel they are capable of doing their job better.

[Auctor]

they're never worth it.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='04 March 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1267679740' post='2213415']
So how do you handle members of your alliance that cause internal drama? Does the challenge system help avoid internal drama at all?
[/quote]
I read that as a proprietary "your", if so then I can simply state that I don't have an alliance in that sense any longer. I am not a part of the government in NSO and have no more say in their day to day policy than I do in Polar or NPO.

If you meant it aside from that then I would ask why I would need to care about internal drama in my alliance? The government is responsible for the actions of the membership, it isn't my place to impose on the average member.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='27 February 2010 - 03:27 AM' timestamp='1267263071' post='2206315']
Divisive members are divisive because they piss off everyone else and, in a way, make them wary of disagreeing because of the argumentative excrement storm that always follows. You lay down the law and make it expressly clear what type of conduct is acceptable and what type of conduct is not. Don't restrict their speech, but also don't let them try to restrict others or belittle their opinions. Also, never be afraid to kick someone out when enough is enough and idiocy goes rampant.
[/quote]

This is probably the best approach. Alliance Leaders / MoFAs / Communications Officers should remember: what your members say on the OWF [i]does[/i] shape the opinion of how everyone perceives your alliance.

The question that leaders / diplomats should have when determining loose cannons is: does having their presence benefit or harm the alliance as a whole, and does their 'loose cannon'ness hurt or help the perception that you want about your alliance? NSO/Athens' "Duck Member" was probably a net negative, even if he was for example a great recruiter. Someone like youwish on the other hand deliberately pissed off people and alliances that we had no problem with them being pissed at us (and sometimes invited). Sometimes I suppose, the hilarity of a loose cannon is worth it; JD wouldn't have made it this far...

[ChairmanHal]

[i]/me looks at avatar[/i]

Yep. Carry on.

Oh and...I consider myself more a holder of strong opinions, but whatever works for you.

[Duke Nukem]

Was this directed at fail trolls or me SCY?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Skibum56' date='04 March 2010 - 08:45 PM' timestamp='1267757334' post='2214438']
Was this directed at fail trolls or me SCY?
[/quote]

contrary to the popular belief, this thread directed at no particular person.

[SpoiL]

I'm convinced that Jack Diorno is a spy, not a loose cannon. I don't get why everyone continues to entertain him with access to their forum.

[Ogaden]

I can be a loose cannon from time to time, though a lot of the time it's alliance culture that determines whether loose cannons are good or bad.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='26 February 2010 - 08:25 AM' timestamp='1267190934' post='2204853']
That said, I consider myself to be one of the more level headed and consistent people you will ever meet. I do not fit any definition of "loose cannon."
[/quote]

It is entirely possible to be level headed, consistent, and still be considered a loose cannon by virtue of the fact that your opinions may fall outside the mainstream of "conventional wisdom".

Put another way, it is perfectly acceptable to be a character so long as you have character.