Saber Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='renegade4box' date='23 February 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1266963758' post='2199794'] TOP breaks 6 treaties during the war, betraying friends; only a minor outcry and its members consider everything honorable. FOK follows one treaty to the letter because of a situation that arose only because of the 6 previous treaties being violate; TOP storms thread with flames, trolling, threats, and cries of them being dishonorable. Ok got it now. [/quote] You should read better. Few TOP members were upset about it (and still are) but fact that it was MK that deliberately asked for the treaty to be activated against our 6 alliances (including TOP) is beneficial factor for FOK. Main argument I posted was that FOK should probably be more upset about MK asking them to do this, then TOP should be upset about FOK actually doing this. (FOK can be upset about us doing this in first place too, one does not exclude the other). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1266963791' post='2199795'] Scutterbug has posted several times regarding it. <-- just posted they did try to~ Its not beneath proper allies to complain about people directly aiding people at war with them. If MK was aiding VE right now, I'd be pissed if I was Polaris. You may have no issue with it, but its poor form regardless. [/quote] I dunno, I think the precedent that it's acceptable has been set since NPO has been aiding GOD. Okay, maybe not for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some-Guy Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Shafer' date='23 February 2010 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1266960100' post='2199609'] The Continuum didn't need all it's member nations to attack GPA yet they still did. [/quote] No they didn't. Learn to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='sethb' date='23 February 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1266963978' post='2199803'] You're saying MHA had a choice to honor an ODP over an MDoAP? [/quote] Sure. Alliances always can make a choice. Again, I'm not saying MHA made the wrong choice or a choice I wouldn't have pushed for myself had I been in MHA, just that they did have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Also, congrats to FOK, you are hereby known as #22. CnG/MK: Let's get this number up to 30. We all know you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1266963791' post='2199795'] Yes, it is. I like the alliance and its leadership, but goddamn are their upper ranks /incompetent/. Chain some treaties? Alrighty, show me who should have come in instead, and who would have been willing to take the heavy damage that will happen in support of an ally of an ally of an ally. FOK is a direct ally, and we (CnG) tried to call in our other direct allies BEFORE calling in FOK. I am not clear as to who else could have been involved, who isnt already engaged on some target. FOK was available enough from what it seems like, and their aid was as such requested. I /hate/ saying this, but I'm not government, I don't know the exact rationale, but I will speculate as well as I can.[/quote] I'm not going to waste my time by going through your treaties so I can prove to you you didn't need to put FOK on us. Their upper ranges are not that strong given prolonged nuclear exchange with NpO. Their help is probably minimal (4 wars so far) and could have been substituted by number of other alliances, including those already at war which still have plenty of capability left. Thank you for admitting that essentially we haven't been defeated. I guess this will go into the history books as a big draw, or even a victory against the odds. Paradox Vult! EDIT: Oh, I completely forgot. You know how this could also have been solved? By actually offering some kind of terms to alliances in question. Our intentions are known for several days now and we still have not gotten even rough estimates or suggestions. Edited February 23, 2010 by Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='23 February 2010 - 10:30 PM' timestamp='1266964235' post='2199814'] Also, congrats to FOK, you are hereby known as #22. CnG/MK: Let's get this number up to 30. We all know you need it. [/quote] I've heard they're the 20th and the 21st from your members, is the stress getting to you? are you fellows losing count? Edited February 23, 2010 by Johnny Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I hope FOK isn't thinking of asking for reps at the end of this, considering the $1bn TOP sent them about five months ago. "Friends"...meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='23 February 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1266964313' post='2199819'] I've heard they're the 20th and the 21st from your members, is the stress getting to you? are you fellows losing count? [/quote] I think someone peaced out so 21 wars ongoing, 22nd overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Greco Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [center][img]http://www.profilebrand.com/graphics/category/quotes-funny/3558_friendship-is-like-money.gif[/img][/center] Edited February 23, 2010 by El Greco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) This is all a scheme by Aqua to kill Orange by having them kill each other. I guess you had no choice due to treaty activations, but this is a bit long after the war started to activate it and you've been in many fronts already. Seems a little unnecessary, but good luck to FOK and others involved. Edited February 23, 2010 by Methrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drommels Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='jstep' date='23 February 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1266959759' post='2199595'] I believe it was more of we helped Fok, and now we are getting kicked by Fok while we are down then, we're angry with Fok for not being on our side [/quote] You entered (or tried to enter) the NPO / \m/ war on the opposite site of FOK. You attacked our allies. You aided our enemies. Where would you have expected us to come and help you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='23 February 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1266964313' post='2199819'] I've heard they're the 20th and the 21st from your members, is the stress getting to you? are you fellows losing count? [/quote] I created the number system and we're now currently at 22. Edited February 23, 2010 by Feanor Noldorin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1266964244' post='2199815'] I'm not going to waste my time by going through your treaties so I can prove to you you didn't need to put FOK on us. Their upper ranges are not that strong given prolonged nuclear exchange with NpO. Their help is probably minimal (4 wars so far) and could have been substituted by number of other alliances, including those already at war which still have plenty of capability left.[/quote] It's great to see you giving up, but attempting to claim otherwise. A+++. [quote] Thank you for admitting that essentially we haven't been defeated. I guess this will go into the history books as a big draw, or even a victory against the odds Paradox Vult! EDIT: Oh, I completely forgot. You know how this could also have been solved? By actually offering some kind of terms to alliances in question. Our intentions are known for several days now and we still have not gotten even rough estimates or suggestions. [/quote] Your own statement that you haven't been defeated or are winning means that you should be offering peace terms to us, right! In terms of how this could have been solved? You not preemptively attacking alliances, and after doing it not acknowledging it was a mistake until it failed miserably all around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juslen Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1266964021' post='2199805'] You should read better. Few TOP members were upset about it (and still are) but fact that it was MK that deliberately asked for the treaty to be activated against our 6 alliances (including TOP) is beneficial factor for FOK. Main argument I posted was that FOK should probably be more upset about MK asking them to do this, then TOP should be upset about FOK actually doing this. (FOK can be upset about us doing this in first place too, one does not exclude the other). [/quote] How about neither? Nobody should be upset at MK or FOK. This war being escalated in the manner which it was should be where people focus their discontent or protest. If one thing is clear in this war its that both TOP and FOK have proven their ability to fight. Its only logical that MK asks for FOK's help considering their ability to wage war. Good job TOP.. you guys really did pull off an awesome impressive preemptive strike which rocked MK harder than the rest of CnG. But now that the shock and awe is over, its all about doing as much damage as possible and keeping your warriors out of peace and recovery mode. I will admit it.. I was not ready for this war. Low tech.. slightly above average war chest and all the wonders I need but I can only imagine the fight nations can put up with 200+ day war chests and 2/1 tech/infra ratios. You are getting hit because you pissed off the opposition and they want blood. It would be great if this war would end, but its not going to happen until one side can view itself as the real victor not just the bigger side. FOK is doing their job hoping to bring this war to an end sooner than later. Honoring treaties and all that good stuff.. nothing shocking or disappointing here IMO. edit: spelling correction Edited February 23, 2010 by juslen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote]You entered (or tried to enter) the NPO / \m/ war on the opposite site of FOK. You attacked our allies. You aided our enemies. Where would you have expected us to come and help you?[/quote] No but we would have tried to avoid hitting you directly. Common courtesy between former allies of a not so distant past. Most of us are disappointed by this move, nothing else. Our Grandmaster said it best, I guess: [i]you did what you had to do.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote]Please show me another alliance MK/CnG is treatied to who could actually handle you.[/quote] Wait, you actually really need [i]more[/i] support? With all those alliances and 2? 3? more? times the NS? I guess it's time to go back to war school. Maybe it's time for you to surrender ... or more seriously, you should at least be discussing peace by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epik High Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Well I know there was a lot of respect for FOK in TOP but hopefully this finally puts the nail on the coffin on whatever perceived friendship. Better to clear it up now when another alliance piling on doesn't really matter than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' date='23 February 2010 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1266964729' post='2199838'] Wait, you actually really need [i]more[/i] support? With all those alliances and 2? 3? more? times the NS? I guess it's time to go back to war school. Maybe it's time for you to surrender ... or more seriously, you should at least be discussing peace by now. [/quote] Yes, some alliances do need to go back to war school who are currently on TOP. However, they are working on it. Edited February 23, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Coursca' date='23 February 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1266964350' post='2199820'] I hope FOK isn't thinking of asking for reps at the end of this, considering the $1bn TOP sent them about five months ago. "Friends"...meh. [/quote] We (yes I was in FOK at the time) didn't want your dirty money for this sole reason. It was MrCyber who accepted the money, who is now (ironically) in TOP. Also, FOK has sent out thousands of tech to you, which you are now using to destroy their allies. We both can play this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankees Empire Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Budlight' date='23 February 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1266962507' post='2199741'] So, that 1.5 billion we gave you guys is being used against us. Tell me, is all your membership composed of such utter &$^%s, or just the government? [/quote] You got jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 The faux sense of contrition is what's appalling here. Isn't it just better to declare war and tell your former friend something like "die in a fire"? That's the way we used to do things back in the day. It's more honest and it saves us a lot of tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='23 February 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1266964235' post='2199814'] Also, congrats to FOK, you are hereby known as #22. CnG/MK: Let's get this number up to 30. We all know you need it. [/quote] I can certainly arrange this if it's what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Bob Janova' date='23 February 2010 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1266964729' post='2199838'] Wait, you actually really need [i]more[/i] support? With all those alliances and 2? 3? more? times the NS? I guess it's time to go back to war school. Maybe it's time for you to surrender ... or more seriously, you should at least be discussing peace by now. [/quote] TOP declared war on 7 alliances, who all have several treaty partners, without a CB. Did you seriously expect anything beyond a 20+ vs 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 And here's the proof that all it takes is electing one colossally incompetent leader to alienate yourselves from even your oldest friends. After how you've been treated I can't fault you from separating, and I understand that you had to stand with your current - and true - friends this time, FOK. Good luck. You'll always have my support. You guys rock, and as I've said before, FOK kicks so much $@!. It's a damn shame you have to kick $@! you used to be best friends with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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