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FOK Declaration of War


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[quote name='MNNorthStars' date='23 February 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1266960660' post='2199631']
Yeah really I mean honoring treaties? Where do they get off!
[/quote]
Even if all that matters to you is that they honour the treaty, it's pretty obvious that FOK have had other considerations to take into account here, and by the looks of some of the scornful responses to this thread I guess their decision has destroyed a rather strong bond. Attacking former best friends - heavy heart or otherwise - is never something that should be taken lightly so the need for FOK nations to enter the war must have been very pressing indeed... I guess only time will tell whether this was worth it in the long run.

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[quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1266961494' post='2199679']
I pointed out that you intentionally put them in a bad position by requesting and activation when it is not really needed. Like you did to NpO as well (and possible some others too, I didn't pay attention really).[/quote]
It is needed, as you are having many nations able to escape into peace mode because of the failure of certain alliances in the upper ranks.
[quote]
As a counter example, TOP did not ask to activate treaties that would put our allies in bad positions. One example are our MHA, Umbrella and AO treaties. All three alliances are fighting on the other side, and even while we were bandwagonned aggressively without a CB by some alliance (from top of my head TJO) we did not even consider to activate the treaty. Knowing it would be highly disrespectful and clear elaywering them into a bad spot.
[/quote]
Yet, you /aided/ people directly at war with MHA, same with FOK. You started an offensive war, and your allies would be able to go "..." if they have the sense to have a nonchaining clause in their treaty.

It is not "elawyering" to when you require aid with an alliance that has attacked you (this situation), ask for help. Did you guys need help with the massive amount of wars TJO declared on you, or are they an extremely minor problem and attacking them would also bring VE in? Do you think that MK, who has lost 40% of our score, mainly from your attacks as you dominate the upper ranks, needs the help?

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[quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1266961044' post='2199657']
Why hello there my almost bill locked target :).


To all TOP members. Please don't attack FOK for this Declaration of War. I have checked with FOK high government and the truth of the matter is that MK requested a treaty activation from FOK, and given their interpretation they had to honour it. It does however bring up the question exactly how does MK treat their allies. Requesting treaty activations which put their own allies in a really bad spot (remember NpO activation MK requested and now this) does not seem like a smart way to keep their own relations strong. On other hand, it may be exactly engineered to destroy any remnants of old relations and further divide and conquer. In which case TOP members don't buy into it.

I really hope MK enjoys elaywering FOK to attack their friends and former allies, in a situation where you cannot have a bigger advantage.
[/quote]


I suppose TOP is a perfect example of the right way to treat ones allies right? You know how you ignored Umbrella and FOK before you declared on us. I'm aware you weren't allied to FOK at the time of the declaration but if you were such good friends following the cancellation you would've have let them know right?


Oh wait no, you didn't. I don't think TOP are in any position to comment on how others treat their allies.




Good luck to you FOK,
o/ FOK

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[quote name='The Reccesion' date='23 February 2010 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1266961626' post='2199691']
I never said not to protect FOK from verbal assaults, seems more like your protecting MK's name with that excuse.
[/quote]
Even though FOK is the one who was being verbally attacked..right..

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[quote name='scutterbug' date='23 February 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1266961722' post='2199693']
Was avoiding posting in this thread but you had to bring MHA into it Saber.

Yes whilst you did not call upon the aid of MHA, Crymson himself who was TOP gov at the time asked us who could attack FARK without MHA countering. Seriously asking a treaty partner to betray another treaty partner?

Now all the TOP bawwing in here when you AID enemies of those you call friends/allies and go around aggresively attacking allies of those friends. Are you seriously surprised its gone full circle? Had TOP not declared in the first place none of this would have happened so before TOP comes crying look at yourselfs and the position YOU put your own "friends" in before blaming them for having to act.

o/ FOK give em hell, just wish i could be fighting with you guys in this one.
[/quote]
Didn't Crymson also personally aid someone who MHA was at war with?

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[quote name='HellAngel' date='23 February 2010 - 09:52 PM' timestamp='1266961951' post='2199705']
Reading this announcement broke my heart

All i can say is, i hope you will experience one day how it feels to have someone who was that close to you do this to you.
[/quote]


I wouldn't wish that on my friends.

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[quote name='Aimee Mann' date='23 February 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1266961811' post='2199698']
Even if all that matters to you is that they honour the treaty, it's pretty obvious that FOK have had other considerations to take into account here, and by the looks of some of the scornful responses to this thread I guess their decision has destroyed a rather strong bond. Attacking former best friends - heavy heart or otherwise - is never something that should be taken lightly so the need for FOK nations to enter the war must have been very pressing indeed... I guess only time will tell whether this was worth it in the long run.
[/quote]

There was no need, they had many other allies, as well as 21 or so alliances fighting TOP already. Incompetence was what let nations in PM, not the amount of nations on the top tier. Requesting other alliances to hit TOP would have been the smart move. I am truly saddened to see this in all aspects. :(

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[quote name='HellAngel' date='24 February 2010 - 07:52 AM' timestamp='1266961951' post='2199705']
Reading this announcement broke my heart

All i can say is, i hope you will experience one day how it feels to have someone who was that close to you do this to you.
[/quote]
Twenty-one alliances won't break Paradoxia, friend. Hold strong and stay the course you've chosen.

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[quote name='Bob Janova' date='23 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1266955239' post='2199391']
Fully bought into C&G I see. You'd think you could have excluded TOP since there are, by this DoW even, five other over-subscribed alliances to pile onto.
[/quote]

Tromp has wanted this for years, they'd never pass this up, its like the dream scenario for him and his posse

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[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1266961935' post='2199704']
Even though FOK is the one who was being verbally attacked..right..
[/quote]
If you say so. But why is it MK every time? Why couldn't it have been some other alliance out of CnG? :blink:

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[quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1266961555' post='2199688']
But no, it's better to force FOK to attack TOP directly and spit in 3 year relationship we had.
[/quote]

FOK has made it clear that they are merely fulfilling their obligations to defend a treaty partner, and have gone out of their way in this thread to get the point across that they do so with a heavy heart.


[quote name='Simon De Montfort' date='23 February 2010 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1266961555' post='2199687']
We should have let GATO roll you guys in the Unjust War.
[/quote]

And this is the response they get. Stay classy, TOP.

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[quote name='Saber' date='23 February 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1266961555' post='2199688']
I hope you enjoy forcing people to go against what they believe is right. As a good ally MK could have asked FOK to focus on 5 other alliances and avoid TOP while other alliances focus on TOP. But no, it's better to force FOK to attack TOP directly and spit in 3 year relationship we had. Yes, we hit their ally, but we would never hit them or make them hit their own friends, no matter how much you shout it.
[/quote]
We don't need as much help with the five other alliances as we do with TOP. You could make a clear argument that we don't need the help on DAWN and TORN, and I would probably agree with you. TSO, Umbrella should be able to cover so I would agree with an argument about that. IRON, alright, maybe. TOP? No. You aren't covered, and the amount of your nations that in the past few weeks have been allowed to escape to peace mode in the upper ranks makes that quite clear.

Also, what about you aiding direct enemies of FOK and your current MDoAP partner, MHA? Is that not worse then us asking them to activate a treaty, when the direct enemies have no treaty ties to you?

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[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='23 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1266961864' post='2199701']
It is needed, as you are having many nations able to escape into peace mode because of the failure of certain alliances in the upper ranks.

Yet, you /aided/ people directly at war with MHA, same with FOK. You started an offensive war, and your allies would be able to go "..." if they have the sense to have a nonchaining clause in their treaty.

It is not "elawyering" to when you require aid with an alliance that has attacked you (this situation), ask for help. Did you guys need help with the massive amount of wars TJO declared on you, or are they an extremely minor problem and attacking them would also bring VE in? Do you think that MK, who has lost 40% of our score, mainly from your attacks as you dominate the upper ranks, needs the help?
[/quote]
Given that you have to spend so much time defending the decision to call them in, yes it is. You had absolutely need for FOK to be specifically deployed on TOP. Similar to how Gremlins was not deployed on TOP but on IRON. If you wanted to keep this clean and have understanding for position FOK is in you would have found a solution where FOK does not have to declare on TOP directly.

Instead you asked them to declare and they did with a heavy heart. I hope you and FOK find it worth it after the war.

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='23 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1266961915' post='2199703']
I suppose TOP is a perfect example of the right way to treat ones allies right? You know how you ignored Umbrella and FOK before you declared on us. I'm aware you weren't allied to FOK at the time of the declaration but if you were such good friends following the cancellation you would've have let them know right?


Oh wait no, you didn't. I don't think TOP are in any position to comment on how others treat their allies.

Good luck to you FOK,
o/ FOK
[/quote]
We did hit Umbrella's and FOKs ally yes. However we never asked them to declare on their old close friend when there were other solutions that were perfectly fine. For example FOK deploys on everyone but TOP, and rest of the alliances focus slightly more on TOP. There are 21 of you, it's not like you cannot do a bit of reshuffling to accomodate FOK.

It tells a lot that you did not. And this is not first time it happened, you used the same trick on NpO although there we did not have a relationship, but NpO did have a strong relationship with some alliances on our side. In essence you made NpO declare on their own side. Hilarious that it actually worked.

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[quote name='The Reccesion' date='23 February 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1266962204' post='2199720']
If you say so. But why is it MK every time? Why couldn't it have been some other alliance out of CnG? :blink:
[/quote]
Refering to what exactly? Sorry, I don't quite know what you mean here. If you explain, I'll do my best to answer.

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[quote name='The Warrior' date='23 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1266961736' post='2199697']
Nope. No complaining here.



Maybe look at this. Heard that one before.

And again, best of luck to you FOK. :D
[/quote]

Sorry I do appologise, I must have misstaken your post amongst the other WAAAA WAAA BAWWWW BAAWWWW 21 alliances needed posts.

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I'm really ashamed to see all the complaining from TOP. It's clear in many ways FOK's relationship with TOP was fractured, and the treaty was canceled. You may have kept an unofficial friendship with FOK after the fact(although I think it would be safe to assume that your relationship post treaty cancellation was not the same as it was in the UJW or what not) but you put them in a horrible position by attacking their allies aggressively. FOK owed you nothing, but they were treatied to MK. It truly is a shame to see this, and I am sure that it was very difficult for FOK; but this is hardly FOK's fault. They are simply following a treaty that you activated with your aggression. With the stuff you have pulled lately, you have no room to insult FOK for this. You brought this upon yourself. I am just sorry FOK had to deal with it.

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