WarriorConcept Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 That was the options avaliable via the charter. They joined the alliance knowing full well what they were getting into. Not anyone else's fault but their own that they joined an alliance where King Death had full control. They had no right to coup, and Athens should not have supported suck underhanded tactics in anyway. KD also didn't have power to change the charter according to the charter but he did anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 That was the options avaliable via the charter. They joined the alliance knowing full well what they were getting into. Not anyone else's fault but their own that they joined an alliance where King Death had full control. They had no right to coup, and Athens should not have supported suck underhanded tactics in anyway. Right, which KD2 had changed at his command. The people /always/ have a right to coup their leadership when they are committing irresponsible acts. Its not Athens fault they wanted to help an alliance who came to them in need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Do you even know who KD2 is and why an alliance would want to coup him? You do not get to tell me why. That is not your position is this, nor is it mine to assume why. You can make observations about the situation, but you are in no position to say why things were done. Let me present an alternative. 1) UED would be tainted forever as a name as KD2 founded it. 2) UED's government knew this. 3) They wanted KD2 out, for obvious reasons. 4) They wanted to create another alliance in order to not have the bad rep that KD2 made for UED. 5) They went to Athens for advise/protection. Why is this less probable? In your situation, why would they have needed a new alliance since they were in charge of UED already? The matter here isn't the quality of KDII as leader. The point is, UED's government coup'd KDII just to disband and recruit the members of UED to their new alliance and Athens knowing that gave them advice and support(protectorade), so I'll ask you again, do you agree with this kind of behavior(both Athens and UED's government)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 One word for you: accomplice –noun a person who knowingly helps another in a crime or wrongdoing, often as a subordinate. (yeah I'm using dictionary today a lot) I know what an accomplice is. I can assume that they knew that morally, this was just. This was honorable. This was the right decision for the members of the alliance given the facts that have been presented. If you have any evidence you would like to share with me, then please go ahead and do so. Based off the knowledge that has been given to us, that is all that I am left to conclude. And again, while it may not have been legal under the charter, neither was KD2 changing the charter at will.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 And again, while it may not have been legal under the charter, neither was KD2 changing the charter at will.. For me the problem isn't the coup being legal or not, KDII doing illegal things or not, what I think that is despicable here is the fact of UED's government coup just with the interest of recruit the UED members for their new alliance and Athens helping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) The matter here isn't the quality of KDII as leader. The point is, UED's government coup'd KDII just to disband and recruit the members of UED to their new alliance and Athens knowing that gave them advice and support(protectorade), so I'll ask you again, do you agree with this kind of behavior(both Athens and UED's government)? No, they didn't. Quit generalizing their behavior, because there could have been more thought into it then you realize. I note that you COMPLETELY disregarded my alternative scenario which paints a different picture then you would like it to obviously. I support this behavior from Athens, they did the right thing here. Supporting an alliance in need is a just decision given the information they had. They couldn't go to KD2 and ask him about it, or the members would be kicked out and banned. They did nothing to support it beyond advice which most could give. UED I am still unclear on, I am waiting on the results of my PMs to every UED member to see if they supported these actions. Its funny how some of us actually care about UED and how others are just arguing because Athens is involved. For me the problem isn't the coup being legal or not, KDII doing illegal things or not, what I think that is despicable here is the fact of UED's government coup just with the interest of recruit the UED members for their new alliance and Athens helping them. The interest was to recruit the members of the alliance to their new alliance after they had gotten rid of the poor reputation that UED had by reforming. There's no issue with that that I see, except that KD2 got couped. They were planning to, as a government, get rid of their bad reputation and get a good one. I change my mind actually, I do see an issue with it. It is an attempt to better themselves and their alliance through subterfuge which I do not think was the right way about it. I think a better decision would have been to state that KD2 was out, and they were going to do their best to make the alliance better, change the name. However, this to me is not a huge issue, as they were the government of the alliance and disbanding UED or changing its appearance was a necessary move in order to become a successful and functioning alliance. If I am missing something, please point it out. Edited December 31, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) You edit I edit For me the recruiting thing is the major problem for you is the minor, we can agree in disagree. Edited December 31, 2009 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 You edit I edit For me the recruiting thing is the major problem for you is the minor, we can agree in disagree. Indeed we can Also, a note on UED member replies. 3 have replied, no info given, one was inactive, another was new, and one said "ok" when I told him why I was asking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Nevermind. I'll gather my thoughts on this and post later. Edited December 31, 2009 by Antoine Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolfe2015 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The matter here isn't the quality of KDII as leader. The point is, UED's government coup'd KDII just to disband and recruit the members of UED to their new alliance and Athens knowing that gave them advice and support(protectorade), so I'll ask you again, do you agree with this kind of behavior(both Athens and UED's government)? Athens did not know the full story behind what was happening at UED and are in no way responsible for what happened, they extended help to an alliance without fully knowing the situation and in turn got this kind of OWF treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 oh so special Big Bad found old stuff on !@#$%* and decided to post it.That makes you relevant. Hahaha! Wow, look who is talking! TPF is getting attacked now over logs half a year old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Athens did not know the full story behind what was happening at UED and are in no way responsible for what happened, they extended help to an alliance without fully knowing the situation and in turn got this kind of OWF treatment. We still don't know the full story. Only the members can tell us, and the people who did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis the II Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 NEW RULE: Know biased and boring threads anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The OP kind of reminds me of something written by The Scholar. Not in a good way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 When is CnG booting Athens? I wouldn't want an ally who does these sorts of things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 One word for you: accomplice –noun a person who knowingly helps another in a crime or wrongdoing, often as a subordinate. (yeah I'm using dictionary today a lot) Beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 When is CnG booting Athens? I wouldn't want an ally who does these sorts of things... Protects alliances? If so, when is Frostbite booting Polar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime minister Johns Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The plot thickens... CN Soap Opera Edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 dang, i am a bit late. i saw these logs last nite on IRC from Dilber. yeah, Londo was asked for advice. he suggested some stuff. that is by no means equal whatsoever to sitting down and planning out an organized assault. what mhawk and ZH did was sit down and made a plan that was followed through. UED couped a single gov figure. something which many hailed when it happened. UED still exists as there was never a plot to destroy it. in fact, Athens gave a protectorate to help them out. so no, there is no hypocrisy on Athens part. just hypocrisy from those who hailed a coup of UED and now tries to trash Athens for supposedly plotting to destroy UED, which last i knew still existed and is being helped by Athens. why would Athens plot to destroy someone but then take them on as a protectorate? man, you guys on the other side sure are stretching so much that it is ridiculously funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 When is CnG booting Athens? I wouldn't want an ally who does these sorts of things... I would suggest not asking this question to CnG, because we will have an obvious retort back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 dang, i am a bit late. i saw these logs last nite on IRC from Dilber. yeah, Londo was asked for advice. he suggested some stuff. that is by no means equal whatsoever to sitting down and planning out an organized assault. what mhawk and ZH did was sit down and made a plan that was followed through. UED couped a single gov figure. something which many hailed when it happened. UED still exists as there was never a plot to destroy it. in fact, Athens gave a protectorate to help them out. so no, there is no hypocrisy on Athens part. just hypocrisy from those who hailed a coup of UED and now tries to trash Athens for supposedly plotting to destroy UED, which last i knew still existed and is being helped by Athens. why would Athens plot to destroy someone but then take them on as a protectorate? man, you guys on the other side sure are stretching so much that it is ridiculously funny. Umm they clearly are discussing the disbandment of UED after the coup is successful, did you read the full logs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Protects alliances? If so, when is Frostbite booting Polar? Probably the best comeback ever. I had thought Athens was already walking on egg shells, what with their displayed prowess in stepping on land mines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 dang, i am a bit late. i saw these logs last nite on IRC from Dilber. yeah, Londo was asked for advice. he suggested some stuff. that is by no means equal whatsoever to sitting down and planning out an organized assault. what mhawk and ZH did was sit down and made a plan that was followed through. UED couped a single gov figure. something which many hailed when it happened. UED still exists as there was never a plot to destroy it. in fact, Athens gave a protectorate to help them out. so no, there is no hypocrisy on Athens part. just hypocrisy from those who hailed a coup of UED and now tries to trash Athens for supposedly plotting to destroy UED, which last i knew still existed and is being helped by Athens. why would Athens plot to destroy someone but then take them on as a protectorate? man, you guys on the other side sure are stretching so much that it is ridiculously funny. Interestingly enough... UED disbanded. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=77269 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime minister Johns Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 why would Athens plot to destroy someone but then take them on as a protectorate? I think the word your looking for here is Viceroy. They could make the defeated alliance into a viceregal protectorate and use it as a tech farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I am trying to ask them as well. Rush is just upset because his alliance is being portrayed as scum for trying to help out people who needed it. Independent of this, he is a good guy, I'd suggest contacting him privately and you will be able to have a nice conversation and resolve whatever's up. Aye, I get that he is upset, and that he is probably a good guy, and I am sorry for coming so harshly on him and the others, it seems we all need to step away from this whole situation for a bit and look on it after a bit of self reflection, which is what I have just done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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