What the Vox Movement Represented [Note: Now IC]

[Khyber]

I have no political agenda here, Khyber. The days of myself doing that are long gone, I have given up any propaganda war and likely lost a lot of credibility with more than a few people here.

I believe your lieing through your teeth Starfox. Only time will tell though.

Also, Gramlins were not the first moralist alliance, and certainly not the key one. If the world had waited on them for action, I'd still be in PZI and NPO would have 30 million NS.

I didn't say anywhere that they were the first moralist alliance. I simply stated that they were fighting for morals and standing by them long before vox came about. GW3 is when I first saw them do it. They did it when GOONS had an issue with them, never backing down. They tried to shape a better world in their eyes by joining WUT. They put down their codex as a vision of that world, and angered some of their allies, all in the name of following their morals. They were being celebrated by you then because their morals served your ends, and now they are being insulted for holding to them and being labled neo moralists when they are actually pretty old guard moralists.

I think Gremlins played just as important a role in securing victory against the NPO as Vox did, all though it is difficult to say how much damage was done to the TOP and MHA relationship with NPO via the spying, and how much pull Gremlins had on them to pull them away from the NPO.

I will say that I believe Gremlins were the favorite ally of most TOP members before the war, and I think they were the favorite ally of most MHA members and goverment. These two alliances, if they had not slowly and effectively been courted would have had devestating impact on the Karma side if they joined the NPO.

MK also played a vital role as being seen as the official legal opposition (since they weren't spying and doing that nutty stuff), and grew as Vox chistled away at the invincible image that NPO had constructed for itself.

Many alliances played large roles, VE, and Fark are two other alliances I would mention if I wanted to get into this debate. And it would be impossible to tell how important their contribution was and measure it to the others, so your claim that Gremlins was not the key one and that their slow actions would have meant no war till NPO was at 30 million seems far fetched, they were just as key as Vox.

[Imperator Hades]

The Moral police control the game these days....yet I seem to remember The legion trying to bring about such a policy between GWII and GWIII, was frowned upon then. Why is it the name of the game now?

[Khyber]

Can you believe that someone with a sanctioned alliance to stand in front of would dare contradict Starfox?

To the OP, you have always been a try-hard going nowhere in particular which is why you are never sure where you are when you arrive. You have always placed a very high value on your extremely conceited view points and I for one welcome you taking a more direct role in re-shaping CN yet again in your new image.

Your almost righteous zeal in condemning those committed to fair play and ethical behaviour says much about your own character and your confusion between reasonable settlement of disagreements and total warfare as the only solution peg you firmly as a relic of the past.

Please feel free to arrange a suitable coalition of alliances to oppose my neo-moralist movement (I don't recall starting one, but apparently I am a fully fledged Starfox neo-moralist scumbag) I can give you a list of people who dislike me if that will help you get started.

Grub, they will arrange a suitable coalition of alliances to oppose you when they are 100% it is a curb stomp. Sit back and enjoy the !@#$%*ing of how you've ruined the game because you have a sense of right and wrong, and wait for them to come.

[AlmightyGrub]

Grub, they will arrange a suitable coalition of alliances to oppose you when they are 100% it is a curb stomp. Sit back and enjoy the !@#$%*ing of how you've ruined the game because you have a sense of right and wrong, and wait for them to come.

I have noticed there are few gamblers on the ''immoral'' side.

[AlmightyGrub]

Well, that didn't take long.

Epic thread is therefore epic. You guys have been talking smack for so long now, perhaps you have forgotten? I haven't. You are boring me. You want to judge my comments yet you are unprepared to back up all the brave talk with some actual action. Lets be honest, you simply don't have the juice to do anything about anything because there is largely nothing there.

As for bring it, you can read it however you like, once again you choose to read it how you like. You want to keep shooting your mouth off I will presume you have some master plan to come and get me... big bad Grub is now apparently as red hot as Sponge. You make me ill, you are weak and pathetic sycophants hiding behind the masses just as you have for the entire time Bob has existed. You have never lifted a finger until all the work has been done by someone else.

Make up your mind who the next target is, Polaris or TOP until then piss or get off the pot.

[Khyber]

I have noticed there are few gamblers on the ''immoral'' side.

Oh and just to keep you up to date on the spin, now your officially false moral side, not neo moralist side.

[AlmightyGrub]

Oh and just to keep you up to date on the spin, now your officially false moral side, not neo moralist side.

Duly noted, although I am not quite sure what that means

[Manwe]

Let me once again remind everyone to get back on topic. Warns will continue to be handed out to those derailing this with personal disputes.

[White Chocolate]

What do you gain from stopping wars?

Growth. Increased nation strength. Friendships based on something more than fear (i.e. "mutual protection") or the desire for revenge.

But the better question is this - What do you gain from keeping wars going?

Edited November 30, 2009 by White Chocolate

[Starfox101]

Can you believe that someone with a sanctioned alliance to stand in front of would dare contradict Starfox?

Tough guy. You don't scare me, or anyone.

Growth. Increased nation strength. Friendships based on something more than fear (i.e. "mutual protection") or the desire for revenge.

But the better question is this - What do you gain from keeping wars going?

Entertainment, and survival of the fittest.

[Mixoux]

Epic thread is therefore epic. You guys have been talking smack for so long now, perhaps you have forgotten? I haven't. You are boring me. You want to judge my comments yet you are unprepared to back up all the brave talk with some actual action. Lets be honest, you simply don't have the juice to do anything about anything because there is largely nothing there.

As for bring it, you can read it however you like, once again you choose to read it how you like. You want to keep shooting your mouth off I will presume you have some master plan to come and get me... big bad Grub is now apparently as red hot as Sponge. You make me ill, you are weak and pathetic sycophants hiding behind the masses just as you have for the entire time Bob has existed. You have never lifted a finger until all the work has been done by someone else.

Make up your mind who the next target is, Polaris or TOP until then piss or get off the pot.

Well there big guy, I simply pointed out the fact that those two lines didn't quite add up, you can infer whatever else you'd like out of my post. No need for the tantrum. But this is just feeding into my earlier comment so, thanks I suppose?

Edited November 30, 2009 by Mixoux

[Augustus Autumn]

Why am I writing this? Because again, as an old man proud of his accomplishments, I feel Vox is to blame for the state of the world today. We trashed any aggressive action, and shouted them down, and essentially ran these forums throughout our time. It was our playground, our weapon and we used it well. Unfortunately, I feel we've set a precedent that I never intended. A non-violent world, where war has become the ultimate taboo.

Not really. That precedent was around well before Vox, back when you didn't wipe your nether region for fear that the Pacifican jackboot would come crashing down. The precedent has existed since there was infrastructure to be destroyed and technology to be looted. I don't, in fact, recall Vox ever calling for a peaceful world so much as a world without Pacifica. The peace that now exists is because everyone saw what happens when you get to the top - everyone else circles in an attempt to knock you down and no one wants to have that happen to them. The world lost its scapegoat and no one is feeling like wearing wool now.

Starfox, you're a decent person but time and again you come across as getting carried away with some sort of ego-inflating trip. That may not be the intention, mind you, but that's how it can appear. Vox Populi, for better or worse, very much became a tool being used by the larger alliances seeking to tear down Pacifica. You knew it, they knew it. You guys just didn't seem to care because it was part of the mission objective (hate/kill Pacifica). I would hazard you guys encouraged the view since it 1) got you more attention and 2) put more resources on the table for you to use.

Then the Karma War starts up and Archon/LM/other people I can't be bothered to remember take the stage. Suddenly we're not seeing pronouncements from Vox Populi, we're seeing pronouncements from Karma. It wasn't you or Doitzel or Sponge posting the massed moral declaration of war, it was Archon. I think that was when things got a little bitter. Post war the members of Vox Populi have drifted to obscurity except for a few persistent loud mouths (this isn't a bad thing, to be a loud mouth) who insist on attempting to remind others of what the movement stood for.

The problem with the Cyberverse isn't that Vox Populi made it all peaceful or anything - it's that people are cowards. For all the big talk that goes on here on the OWF people will always be infra huggers who don't want to "lose". You, Doitzel, Sponge and the rest did something damned brave (which, incidentally, so did Moo, Dilber and Pacifica) which is why people loved/hated you. Now that both groups are gone you have sad imitations (the urge to give names here is so very tempting) who mill around each other waiting for someone else to step up to the front. "Where is Vox? Where is Pacifica? Where is FAN?" You know what I mean.

I'll remember both Vox Populi and Pacifica for being brave and for what they have and continue to contribute to the 'verse. You deserve credit - your inheritors are unworthy.

[Imperator Hades]

Can we stop fighting over who has the biggest ball already....

[Denial]

as for moralism, it has and always will be around. It was used by LUE and others in GPW and onwards from what i can remember.

I think you may have forgotten who attacked who in order to enforce a particular moral code in the First Great War.

[Dochartaigh]

I think you may have forgotten who attacked who in order to enforce a particular moral code in the First Great War.

nope. Pacifica/Polaris used a moral code but also iirc an OOC attack style card was in play on the Orders' side as well.

[SpacingOutMan]

Pacifica fell. Why the $%&@ are we arguing about the mitigating factors behind it? Are peoples' egos that big that someone needs to claim they are the dominant reason for that upheaval of power? Christ people... high horses are fun and all, but that is just bringing it to a whole unnecessary level. It's like watching a midget riding atop the Trojan Horse: it's amusing at first, but then sad because how is he going to get down? Answer: he doesn't.

It seems that all people care about doing, once again [OOC: ], is trying to see who is more endowed and now its beyond the point of no return until the participants of this pissing contest realize they have nothing left in their bladders.

Interesting viewpoint you got there Starfox, but all I read was, in all honestly, a ton of ego stroking and not a lot of substance. Perhaps you weren't aiming for this, but that's how you came off, to me at least. To the point I think you were trying to make, I do believe that Vox assisted in taking NPO down. People may claim that Vox had no influence whatsoever, but anyone who has half a brain knows that is !@#$%^&*. When a person becomes an insect in one's ear, they are considered an annoyance. Yet, that insect seemed to be immune to Raid and Bug spray. When one person stands up and creates a challenge and can't be beaten, it resonates, whether explicitly or implicitly. Whether people accept that fact or not, I do believe Vox contributed to the ultimate downfall of NPO, even if it turns out to be a minor role.

And one last thing...

Really, what is all of this SF! versus Frostbite nonsense? Shut the $%&@ up. It's not even amusing anymore. Maybe I'm a bit of a disgruntled plebeian, but a SF! vs. Frostbite war wouldn't even be exciting. It would be a bunch of "I HAVE BETTER BEER THAN YOU!" and in all of that hooey, and really, we all know that Fark has the greatest stash of booze in the universe.

Edited December 1, 2009 by SpacingOutMan

[Daikos]

So what you're saying is that the majority of Vox's leaders, most of whom are universally regarded as trolls and attention seekers, didn't actually believe in the righteous crap that they spewed? Shocking! It's always fun when these self-aggrandizing posts from ex Vox leadership pops up. Was the Vox movement revolutionary in terms of what we've seen on Planet Bob before? Yes. Did their actions help in bringing down NPO? Yes. But you were by no means the major cause of NPOs downfall or the heroic figures that you seem to regard yourselves as. Vox was merely another piece of the puzzle when it came to bringing down NPO, without alliances like MK and Gremlins and the countless others who led the actual fighting against the hegemony you would have accomplished nothing. Vox may have been widely respected at it's formation but as time dragged on I seem to remember most of the world viewing you as annoyances and your shenanigans as little more than the actions of individuals who, for various reasons, had run afoul of the NPO and were now throwing tantrums.

Personally I'm glad that you've come out and told the world that all of your posts and statements regarding morality during the NPO hegemony were nothing but a facade. It lets the entire cyberverse gain a strong understanding of your inner characters and convictions. Next time someone upsets you there will be far less people listening when you step onto your soap box yelling about the injustices of the world. The only unfortunate part is that you felt it necessary to belittle the efforts of those Voxians who were involved because they felt that it was the right choice and felt like taking a stand against a system that they saw as unjust.

As for the most of the blocs now being full of "moralistic cowards", I'm sorry that we aren't as willing as you are to throw convictions out the door in order to gain some excitement and drama. If so many of you are upset about it then I believe that many would say you should "do something about it".

[Earogema]

So what you're saying is that the majority of Vox's leaders, most of whom are universally regarded as trolls and attention seekers, didn't actually believe in the righteous crap that they spewed? Shocking! It's always fun when these self-aggrandizing posts from ex Vox leadership pops up. Was the Vox movement revolutionary in terms of what we've seen on Planet Bob before? Yes. Did their actions help in bringing down NPO? Yes. But you were by no means the major cause of NPOs downfall or the heroic figures that you seem to regard yourselves as. Vox was merely another piece of the puzzle when it came to bringing down NPO, without alliances like MK and Gremlins and the countless others who led the actual fighting against the hegemony you would have accomplished nothing. Vox may have been widely respected at it's formation but as time dragged on I seem to remember most of the world viewing you as annoyances and your shenanigans as little more than the actions of individuals who, for various reasons, had run afoul of the NPO and were now throwing tantrums.

Personally I'm glad that you've come out and told the world that all of your posts and statements regarding morality during the NPO hegemony were nothing but a facade. It lets the entire cyberverse gain a strong understanding of your inner characters and convictions. Next time someone upsets you there will be far less people listening when you step onto your soap box yelling about the injustices of the world. The only unfortunate part is that you felt it necessary to belittle the efforts of those Voxians who were involved because they felt that it was the right choice and felt like taking a stand against a system that they saw as unjust.

As for the most of the blocs now being full of "moralistic cowards", I'm sorry that we aren't as willing as you are to throw convictions out the door in order to gain some excitement and drama. If so many of you are upset about it then I believe that many would say you should "do something about it".

Yes we know that we could have only done it with them, thus the whole admitting they were a great part of the cause. Vox had many alliances to thank, and did thank many alliances. If you don't seem to remember, you may want to look at the threads.

As for our former leaders being "trolls" or "attention-seekers," I really, really, never got how this was an insult. These people make things interesting believe it or not. Oh, and don't forget that we actually you know, had actions behind the very words we posted on the forum.

[wickedj]

And one last thing...

Really, what is all of this SF! versus Frostbite nonsense? Shut the $%&@ up. It's not even amusing anymore. Maybe I'm a bit of a disgruntled plebeian, but a SF! vs. Frostbite war wouldn't even be exciting. It would be a bunch of "I HAVE BETTER BEER THAN YOU!" and in all of that hooey, and really, we all know that Fark has the greatest stash of booze in the universe. The Liquor Cabinet ain't got !@#$ on them.

As a former Farker i must agree. If they could post here..well they would agree too

[Imperator Hades]

The higher the horse, the further the fall

[Starfox101]

So what you're saying is that the majority of Vox's leaders, most of whom are universally regarded as trolls and attention seekers, didn't actually believe in the righteous crap that they spewed? Shocking! It's always fun when these self-aggrandizing posts from ex Vox leadership pops up. Was the Vox movement revolutionary in terms of what we've seen on Planet Bob before? Yes. Did their actions help in bringing down NPO? Yes. But you were by no means the major cause of NPOs downfall or the heroic figures that you seem to regard yourselves as. Vox was merely another piece of the puzzle when it came to bringing down NPO, without alliances like MK and Gremlins and the countless others who led the actual fighting against the hegemony you would have accomplished nothing. Vox may have been widely respected at it's formation but as time dragged on I seem to remember most of the world viewing you as annoyances and your shenanigans as little more than the actions of individuals who, for various reasons, had run afoul of the NPO and were now throwing tantrums.

Personally I'm glad that you've come out and told the world that all of your posts and statements regarding morality during the NPO hegemony were nothing but a facade. It lets the entire cyberverse gain a strong understanding of your inner characters and convictions. Next time someone upsets you there will be far less people listening when you step onto your soap box yelling about the injustices of the world. The only unfortunate part is that you felt it necessary to belittle the efforts of those Voxians who were involved because they felt that it was the right choice and felt like taking a stand against a system that they saw as unjust.

As for the most of the blocs now being full of "moralistic cowards", I'm sorry that we aren't as willing as you are to throw convictions out the door in order to gain some excitement and drama. If so many of you are upset about it then I believe that many would say you should "do something about it".

You completely misunderstood the point of this announcement, and instead used it as a chance to take a bunch of potshots at the founders. Try again.

The point is that there is no right and wrong in CN, there is no moral code to abide by only. Only perspective. If everyone was so moral, there would be nothing but nation building.

[New Frontier]

Tough guy. You don't scare me, or anyone.

I believe it was you that said people should act according to the amount of NS standing behind them.

Starfox, you're a joke, and you know it.

[Xiphosis]

I believe it was you that said people should act according to the amount of NS standing behind them.

He suggested people punch within their weight class? Well, no wonder you hate him.

[Qaianna]

Yes we know that we could have only done it with them, thus the whole admitting they were a great part of the cause. Vox had many alliances to thank, and did thank many alliances. If you don't seem to remember, you may want to look at the threads.

As for our former leaders being "trolls" or "attention-seekers," I really, really, never got how this was an insult. These people make things interesting believe it or not. Oh, and don't forget that we actually you know, had actions behind the very words we posted on the forum.

It's meant to denigrate those whose primary means of self-amusement is belittling others. I've met too many from my pre-ruling days..I feel old.

I also thought the point of the original post was trying to yell at the current powers that be that his weapons were meant to really be spin and other fun things like that and not meant to actually stay used to shout down confrontations. I could be wrong there.

[Starfox101]

I believe it was you that said people should act according to the amount of NS standing behind them.

Starfox, you're a joke, and you know it.

I never said that, but a good spin. I said he was acting like he had 20 million NS behind him, when he had 60k. Not to mention, both of them came at me in an aggressive manner making threats. I never once suggested war or threatened either, I merely stuck up for myself.

Is your suggestion then, that I allow Grub to threaten me because he has more NS, because I previously stated someone was acting like they had 20 million NS?

What have you done to throw the insult of me being a joke around, either? You aren't exaclty Archon over there, Cheyenne. You're a historical follower.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Starfox101