An Announcement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[Neo Uruk]

Wow, NpO, I guess you should have got a bigger piece of Karma if you're willing to go to war over this.

[kpcurley]

Archon, I love you dearly, but I will go through you if you stand in my way... but you know that already. I am tired of the only alliances being accountable for their deliberate actions as being ones that have Order in their name.

If it comes down to it, I stand with you!

[PhysicsJunky]

See: my response to Crymson. I'm doing more than just "sticking up for allies."

I respect the position you've taken on this issue Archon and understand your motive to give them a second chance, I however think you're likely to find yourself disappointed. This whole affair isn't just a localized issue. If alliances can get away with the whole-sale raiding of small alliances just because their bloc mates are willing to stand by them and their insincere apologies Planet Bob just became more hostile for many of us. It certainly did a number on my own opinions, you're now supporting a legitimate threat to myself and the people in my alliance.

[Style #386]

OK. ODN is a bunch of cowards that are hardly fit to continue existing as an alliance. As soon as things look rough, you kick into survival mode and run away with your tail b/t your legs.

Make things rough for me babe, and we'll see who goes running.

[delendum]

I don't care about either. I do enjoy alliances doing stupid things and then watching as the same arguments they used to defend themselves are then turned on them. And it all could have been avoided if someone had just used a little common sense.

I definitely agree that it could have been avoided, however what's done is done. I'm certain that Athens have learnt their lesson.

[Vilien]

Because it means that you much more strongly support the actions of your allies than if you had an oA or something similar, and when they do things you may disagree with, that remains the case.

I'm not saying that someone will start a war over this (lol, there would be literally no CB unless MASH somehow decided to honor their treaty which is not really a treaty but kinda is, bring a lot of friends, and something magical happen there?).

Signing a treaty like this means that you'll stick by your allies no matter what. Supporting Athens is the only reasonable and morally correct thing that MK can do.

[Bilrow]

Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Bilrow

[enderland]

Signing a treaty like this means that you'll stick by your allies no matter what. Supporting Athens is the only reasonable and morally correct thing that MK can do.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

[Griff]

And. Here. We. Go!

[Quinoa Rex]

It certainly did a number on my own opinions, you're now supporting a legitimate threat to myself and the people in my alliance.

Mighty slippery slope you're on there.

[Homura]

Really? The former Co-Leader of LUE doesn't remember what the Initiative and the GOONS did? Really? You're going to go there, Katsumi?

Hey you're the one going there by becoming them, Mr Karma Incarnate. I don't have to do anything but sit back and watch this train wreck.

[Archon]

Well, I wasn't trying to be cute. I was asking a serious question. I wouldn't answer it either. Another serious question. How is this any different than when the NPO let their smaller allies do whatever they wanted without any fear of retribution?

MK is certainly in a rough situation here, but to outright support Athens in this is to make it clear that Athens is allowed to declare wars and get away with it where other alliances would have to pay for their mistakes. For those of us who have spent years fighting against that kind of thing, well, it changes things a bit.

I think the point I highlighted to Crymson and Walker make it clear. I'm doing more than just defending them - I'm working to make sure they don't continue walking down this path. It's a bad one, and I'm making that clear to them.

This is nothing less the posturing where it was not needed, Archon. You are only fanning the flames and making things worse. You're an intelligent man, you should know that this was better suited to back channels.

Quite frankly I was keeping it in back channels until I was too encumbered by query after query about war threats. I wanted to reach the whole peanut gallery, and fast.

So, I don't like the way you worded it, but I do respect what you're saying

I just wanted to make it clear where I stood. That's all.

[SirWilliam]

This post is being perceived as a Statement of Support for Athens (wrongly or not) which would imply that MK backs the decision in actions if not words.

We support our allies, yes. We don't always support their actions. That's the distinction here that's being missed.

When you hold an MADP that presents some difficult situations politically, this is one of them.

We're well aware of our treaty situation and the implications. That changes little. MK will not hold an ally - MDAP or not - accountable by canceling said treaty when it makes a whole lot more sense to work with them on the issues that would call the treaty into question in the first place.

[Lord Fingolfin]

So am I right in the understanding that, while you don't approve of changing some [ooc]pixels around in a game[/ooc], you're perfectly fine with stooping to the level of needless name calling?

What a fine acreage of moral high ground you have there.

Meh, I call it as I see it. I also happened to be the instigator of that fine signature image you wear. Courtesy of the Purple Award Ceremony thread. Step aside from the fact that you are VE and feel that Legion is "teh evilz!" because we're perceived to be on the "Hegemony" side of the world, where the hell in Archon's speech does he use a word any average person wouldn't be able to comprehend...

Anyways, I did attempt civility in closing my post.

[delendum]

Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO.

That's a pretty good joke, however Athens did not get several alliances stomped over a fabricated CB just because they needed to inflate their ego again. Athens foolishly raided an alliance that should not have been. And after all, Athens did admit their mistake and are trying to make amends, instead of, you know, bombing them into oblivion along with their friends (had they any).

[Rebel Virginia]

Grubby, we've had words during the noCB war, during the Karma war and damn near everytime in between so is there REALLY a need for posturing and threats when this doesnt even come CLOSE to involving you

Good show, MK.

You know, whenever NPO rolled or attacked an alliance for no good reason they loved to tell those that would like to see them held accountable the exact same thing. Well, truth be told, everything involves everyone. If you let something slid, then you got a precedent set that some people are above the consequences. That, my friend, is something I simply cannot stand for.

[Alterego]

Signing a treaty like this means that you'll stick by your allies no matter what. Supporting Athens is the only reasonable and morally correct thing that MK can do.

Didnt you slate Q alliances for doing the same thing, sticking by each other no matter what.

[LegendoftheSkies]

is there REALLY a need for posturing and threats when this doesnt even come CLOSE to involving you.

If all the self-righteous tools in this thread would just consider this sentence, this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Legend of the Skies

[Mind Virus]

Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO.

That actually did remind me of this.

[RandomInterrupt]

Athens was not out to destroy these guys, it was not some sort of petty feud on account of them looking the wrong way. Take it as you will, in essence it was a scaled up tech raid. Dumb? Absolutely. But Athens are trying to make amends - and we definitely don't think they deserve to burn for this mistake.

We are not happy about this either, but we will not let our allies burn for what can be settled a lot easier through countless other means. If people would have been so certain that anybody attacking that alliance will have to pay, they would have held treaties with them. What I smell between the few glimpses of true morality is a big pile of opportunism.

So, you aren't really disagreeing with me. What MK appears to be saying is, KoFN is free to retaliate, but you will act as a deterrent and protector to their attacker. This is the same policy as the old Hegemony, for the record. You are saying that your opinion on how this should be resolved is more important than that of the victim. I just don't understand that mentality.

Mighty slippery slope you're on there.

Not really. He has his, very valid mind you, reasons for believing this. There was a time in which small alliances had to be afraid of being raided all in "good fun" and without retribution. Many of us were happy to believe that said era had passed. If we are back to that environment, well that would be a major setback.

As others have said, it isn't so much a matter of Athens vs KoFN as much as setting the precedence of the post-Karma world. As such many individuals are going to be invested in this topic.

[Lord of Destruction]

Didnt you slate Q alliances for doing the same thing, sticking by each other no matter what.

Except the Continuum wasn't an MADP bloc.

[Bilrow]

That actually did remind me of this.

Actually very similar, but the same group of people dropped the GGA MDP because of that.

[Solanine]

Meh, I call it as I see it. I also happened to be the instigator of that fine signature image you wear. Courtesy of the Purple Award Ceremony thread. Step aside from the fact that you are VE and feel that Legion is "teh evilz!" because we're perceived to be on the "Hegemony" side of the world, where the hell in Archon's speech does he use a word any average person wouldn't be able to comprehend...

Anyways, I did attempt civility in closing my post.

Well that is actually a mistake, I'm MK, but I forgot to change it back after Halloween. I don't really think the Legion is 'teh evilz!, either. I think you're a bunch of stuck up children who think that a [ooc]game[/ooc] needs to resort to name calling. And don't get me wrong, I do my fair share of name calling as well. However, the difference is, you look you actually mean it, while I never do. Gods sakes. Take off the corset and breath in the fresh air of maturity.

[Schattenmann]

Once again, I've addressed this already with Crymson. That being said, if you think it's your job to act as moral hammer and destroy a bloc of alliances just because one tech raided a group of 39 then you've got that high horse shoved up a bit too high, methinks.

I don't understand why you guy's can't even call them an alliance. Is CoJ a "group of 8" or is MK a "group of 174"?

I'm glad you and Athens are winding things down, but seriously, why does reality and the definition of terms like war and alliance not apply to the parties involved in all this? It's snobbery.

[Matthew Conrad]

Well said.