An Announcement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[ChairmanHal]

Hey, 14, wow, that's incredible. I fought more wars than that in GW1, GW3, UJW, and if you want to count Vox's resistance as part of the WotC, then I fought over 150.

You really aren't as cool as you think. Does this mean I can call you a coward like you were attempting to do to MK?

I was letting the kid have his "I am Conan!" moment.

Whatever issues I have with MK, and they aren't all that serious at this point, the word 'coward' doesn't come to mind with respect to their behavior in the Athens matter.

[Ephriam Grey]

Bravo to you, MK. Best of luck to you and Athens.

[The AUT]

I never made any claims that Athens' actions were insignificant, and my entire post was talking about how Athens wouldn't call in help, against Bob Janova's claim that they would if KoN retaliated to the raid. The reason my arguments hardly ever make sense to you is that you lack the ability to read and comprehend simple English. Then again, I expect that from you.

Bob's point was that there's no use in KoN retaliating unless they go down in a blaze of nuclear fire since they were outgunned and outmatched. How the heck would Athens need more help in dismantling an 8-man AA? What help would Athens need?

Your argument falls short. Surprising? No, not really.

[shahenshah]

Greetings,

A random question here, not really sure if you guys have MDAP or MDoAP obligations, but if Athens's allies did not consider it as a tech raid and a war, as has been implied here and there, were'nt they suppose to roll together depending on the treaty obligations..was just wondering.

Regards,

Edited November 17, 2009 by shahenshah

[Caesar833]

Greetings,

A random question here, not really sure if you guys have MDAP or MDoAP obligations, but if Athens's allies did not consider it as a tech raid and a war, as has been implied here and there, were'nt they suppose to roll together depending on the treaty obligations..was just wondering.

Regards,

Yes i think there was some treaty breaking involved here if you want to E-Lawyer

[Poyplemonkeys]

Bob's point was that there's no use in KoN retaliating unless they go down in a blaze of nuclear fire since they were outgunned and outmatched. How the heck would Athens need more help in dismantling an 8-man AA? What help would Athens need?

Your argument falls short. Surprising? No, not really.

An 8 man AA? Do you actually have a clue what we're talking about? Seriously...

Given that there were slightly less declared wars than total KoN nations (when I checked pretty early on, may have been some peaced out already but it was close to that amount) and nations like Londo's had declared on nations significantly larger than them, I can't see where you get the outgunned and outmatched argument from. Unless Athens called in the rest of their alliance... Then you're moving into an entirely different area, it has been touted all along as individual Athens nations tech raiding, so if others were to get involved should KoN defend themselves it would be a poor show indeed. I'm sure I read Londo saying wouldn't have happened.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys

[uaciaut]

People assuming/claiming that MK and CnG are not taking measures to ensure that a cluster$%&@ like this does not repeat have:

a ) not read a word of the OP

b ) no basic understanding of the English language

c ) a political agenda

My money is on c) but we could be dealing with mass cognitive impairment, who knows?

Yep, that's what happens pretty much all the time here, heh.

[Stormsend]

Greetings,

A random question here, not really sure if you guys have MDAP or MDoAP obligations, but if Athens's allies did not consider it as a tech raid and a war, as has been implied here and there, were'nt they suppose to roll together depending on the treaty obligations..was just wondering.

Regards,

While it is most certainly true that the Complaints and Grievances Union does, in fact, roll together, it counts only in times of declared war. Now, while the world we live in does not, in fact, always provide Declarations of War of these fine forums before attacking, were this a war for more than technology, then we would all be assaulting the Knights and declarations would have been posted somewhere along the way.

This is an excellent question and I truly thank you for asking.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Mundokiir

[shahenshah]

While it is most certainly true that the Complaints and Grievances Union does, in fact, roll together, it counts only in times of declared war. Now, while the world we live in does not, in fact, always provide Declarations of War of these fine forums before attacking, were this a war for more than technology, then we would all be assaulting the Knights and declarations would have been posted somewhere along the way.

This is an excellent question and I truly thank you for asking.

Ah ok, I get it, its a Tech war, not a war . Thats all I wanted to know. I am most thankful for your acknowledgement.

Yes i think there was some treaty breaking involved here if you want to E-Lawyer

Its not a complicated matter where one needs to E-lawyer. Rather a simple query.

Edited November 17, 2009 by shahenshah

[lebubu]

Ah ok, I get it, its a Tech war, not a war . Thats all I wanted to know. I am most thankful for your acknowledgement.

Yes, otherwise known as a tech raid. Of course, you could argue that it's not [ooc]as there is no declare tech raid button[/ooc] but that would be rather silly (not that I'm not expecting it!) and pointless as it boils down to what we consider it. Thanks for being concerned about our treaty obligations, though.

[Vizard]

Another well-meaning announcement from the Archon. Stern, but fair.

[nippy]

Uh, I don't think you remember the GOONS pro piracy thread.

\m/ died a long time ago. With it, pretty much did the standard of automatically acceptable tech raiding.

I remember that thread

Nice OP, Archon...I dig.

[Satsukage]

You are a very respectable man Archon. I truly admire your loyalty to your allies although they haven't been their best. I wish MK and Athens the best and hope everything will be resolved in a diplomatic matter instead of a war.

[rsoxbronco1]

Ah ok, I get it, its a Tech war, not a war . Thats all I wanted to know. I am most thankful for your acknowledgement.

Its not a complicated matter where one needs to E-lawyer. Rather a simple query.

Athens holds an individual MADP with MK as well as a our MADP connection through the Complaints & Grievances Union.

MADP means that in the event of an alliance on alliance war, your treaty partner is required to attack with you if requested or defend you if attacked. (C&G has an internal understanding about what this means) While in practice, C&G effectively rolls as one and you can consider yourself open to attack from all of us if you start something.

However, that is rarely ever as effective as C&G alliances being assigned to specific fronts. (See the Karma war) As we did not declare an alliance wide war on Ni!, our MADPs did not come into play. MK's point is that any attack on Athens or another member of C&G will count as an alliance war and will result in the activation of C&G. I hope I've cleared up how MADPs work for you.

[Ludacrism2]

Clear and to the point, me like.

[Bob]

People assuming/claiming that MK and CnG are not taking measures to ensure that a cluster$%&@ like this does not repeat have:

a ) not read a word of the OP

b ) no basic understanding of the English language

c ) a political agenda

My money is on c) but we could be dealing with mass cognitive impairment, who knows?

Even split between a) and c). A lot of people don't bother to read an OP if its more than a few lines, and more than a few people are carrying their own political agenda into this thread.

Although B could be it, there seems to be an increase in that department as of late.

Ah ok, I get it, its a Tech war, not a war . Thats all I wanted to know. I am most thankful for your acknowledgement.

Its not a complicated matter where one needs to E-lawyer. Rather a simple query.

Nice E-lawyering of your own.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Hoping]

Athens holds an individual MADP with MK as well as a our MADP connection through the Complaints & Grievances Union.

MADP means that in the event of an alliance on alliance war, your treaty partner is required to attack with you if requested or defend you if attacked. (C&G has an internal understanding about what this means) While in practice, C&G effectively rolls as one and you can consider yourself open to attack from all of us if you start something.

However, that is rarely ever as effective as C&G alliances being assigned to specific fronts. (See the Karma war) As we did not declare an alliance wide war on Ni!, our MADPs did not come into play. MK's point is that any attack on Athens or another member of C&G will count as an alliance war and will result in the activation of C&G. I hope I've cleared up how MADPs work for you.

How about if I get a group of nations in my alliance to do...whatever it is you did, (tech war?, tech raid?), on Athens? I would not declare it an alliance wide war on Athens. Does this trigger your defense part of your pact?

[Seerow]

How about if I get a group of nations in my alliance to do...whatever it is you did, (tech war?, tech raid?), on Athens? I would not declare it an alliance wide war on Athens. Does this trigger your defense part of your pact?

If they requested it, I imagine it would. One of the nice things about having allies that don't forget you exist.

That said I doubt Athens would need any help at all to fight off TJO on their own and make it wholly unprofitable for you to do so without their allies, so it's a moot point.

[rsoxbronco1]

If they requested it, I imagine it would. One of the nice things about having allies that don't forget you exist.

That said I doubt Athens would need any help at all to fight off TJO on their own and make it wholly unprofitable for you to do so without their allies, so it's a moot point.

Plus Doitzel hangs out in our private channel so we'd beat the intel out of him before the shooting started.

[Starfox101]

How about if I get a group of nations in my alliance to do...whatever it is you did, (tech war?, tech raid?), on Athens? I would not declare it an alliance wide war on Athens. Does this trigger your defense part of your pact?

I bet you thought this was a really clever point, and you felt really cool after posting it, but unfortunately this has been said one hundred times already and still isn't clever on the 101st time.

[Ragashingo]

I bet you thought this was a really clever point, and you felt really cool after posting it, but unfortunately this has been said one hundred times already and still isn't clever on the 101st time.

Not only that, but isn't this entire huge discussion essentially about MK defending Athens against the very thing he was talking about? The point flew so far over his head that no clever hyperbolic statement on my part will do this irony justice.

[tamerlane]

Not only that, but isn't this entire huge discussion essentially about MK defending Athens against the very thing he was talking about? The point flew so far over his head that no clever hyperbolic statement on my part will do this irony justice.

This is the real tragedy of this situation. This right here.

[Hoping]

Well excuse me if I like to point out the hypocrisy in things.

@SF: I had to do it the 101st. It is your number

[Dochartaigh]

Athens holds an individual MADP with MK as well as a our MADP connection through the Complaints & Grievances Union.

MADP means that in the event of an alliance on alliance war, your treaty partner is required to attack with you if requested or defend you if attacked. (C&G has an internal understanding about what this means) While in practice, C&G effectively rolls as one and you can consider yourself open to attack from all of us if you start something.

However, that is rarely ever as effective as C&G alliances being assigned to specific fronts. (See the Karma war) As we did not declare an alliance wide war on Ni!, our MADPs did not come into play. MK's point is that any attack on Athens or another member of C&G will count as an alliance war and will result in the activation of C&G. I hope I've cleared up how MADPs work for you.

so, if another alliance were to do an alliance wide tech raid against Athens, it would not be considered an alliance on alliance war by CnG since Athens did not consider their alliance wide tech raid of KofN a war and the fact that it seems all of CnG consider it to simply be a tech raid?

[rsoxbronco1]

so, if another alliance were to do an alliance wide tech raid against Athens, it would not be considered an alliance on alliance war by CnG since Athens did not consider their alliance wide tech raid of KofN a war and the fact that it seems all of CnG consider it to simply be a tech raid?

Did I say our raid was a good thing? I've spent the weekend in back channels making sure it never happens again. I believe I've been quite clear in my opinion that this raid was a terrible idea and that I would not have supported it had I been online. If you're looking to rip into Athens, don't waste your time preaching to the choir and you don't need to worry about the rest of Athens since I've already done it for you.

That said, if you don't know the difference between a tech raid and a war then that's something I can't help with.