Brenann Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 This discussion is getting old, real fast. If you have no one in range (or not enough people in range) ofcourse you ask for assistance from your allies. Alliances do that all the time. not over a failed raid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTheFirst Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 so you went to bigFOK to get people, instead of cleaning up your own messes. We wouldn't have if the guy had been a bit smaller. Our alliance is still young and we don't have enough people in range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 not over a failed raid Like MikeTheFirst said in the other topic, we can continue this one line discussion for hours. This war was not over a failed raid but over aiding a nation that was in war with iFOK. Most alliances see this as an act of war. If you don't agree with this we can just agree to disagree and call it a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Like MikeTheFirst said in the other topic, we can continue this one line discussion for hours. This war was not over a failed raid but over aiding a nation that was in war with iFOK. Most alliances see this as an act of war. If you don't agree with this we can just agree to disagree and call it a night. No, actually most alliances say "techraiding is not ok, if you do it, you are on your own regarding any consequences". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 No, actually most alliances say "techraiding is not ok, if you do it, you are on your own regarding any consequences". HellAngel, would you delete your nation if most people tell you to? Every alliance is free to come up with their own set of techraid rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 No, actually most alliances say "techraiding is not ok, if you do it, you are on your own regarding any consequences". Pretty much this. The only ones I can think of that may not do so are the more aggressive techraiders like Poison Clan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) HellAngel, would you delete your nation if most people tell you to?Every alliance is free to come up with their own set of techraid rules. It is the generally accepted principle in our corner of the MDP web. Of course you can do whatever the hell you like, but other people might not like that very much. Edited October 21, 2009 by HellAngel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 HellAngel, would you delete your nation if most people tell you to?Every alliance is free to come up with their own set of techraid rules. Probably not, but if he didn't we would have the right to criticize him for not doing what is generally accepted as proper. However, you are comparing apples to oranges... Deleting your nation =/= Calling in your allies to clean up a mess because one of your members couldn't handle a tech raid. I have a dream, that one day alliances will become accountable for their members actions. Where a member of alliance X tech raids and when he fails misserably that alliance X will be the one to offer assistance and not have to have the big bad protectorate come in and bail them out. I have a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonra Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 iFOK sets out to make purple baw. Purple baws.iFOK - 1 - 0 - Purple Sorry to correct you Sir, but the AAF is a mult-colored alliance. Thats should read as follows: iFOK - 1 - 0 Multi-colored Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThirdMark Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 In my opinion, those who techraid should not be entitled to any kind of support from their alliance.What comes their way in response is their responsibility, and theirs alone. iFOK, you continue to disappoint me. Those are basic Tech Raid rules (for Alliances that allow said Tech Raids). Though that is not the point here. The point is where other Alliances (Invicta, big surprise) step in to aid the Attacked Nation in such a way that it is a DoW by that Alliance itself (after all: a High Government Member of the Alliance is stepping in to declare war on iFok). This way a ''normal'' raid becomes a war. May admin be with you, and may He smite the cowards who outnumber you three-to-one. For He saith, "blessed be those who give free moniezs to the weak!" He is indeed the wisest of all. Didnt he also say: ''blessed be those trying to hump a bee hive''? I've always found FOK to be intelligent and fair, I'd hoped they would refrain from entangling themselves in such a ridiculous affair. Coming to the aid of a Treaty Partner is ridiculous? Time for a story...."I went to school today and there was this one kid on his own without many friends. Some bigger kids bullied him and stole his sweets. But then another kid came by and gave the little kid some money. The little kid didn't buy more sweets, but bought himself a stick and hit the kid who bullied him. Then the bully went off crying to his friends about how unfair it was for someone to help the little kid. So all the bullies gathered round and cried foul and ganged up to try to beat up the kid who gave a victim some money." Are we really living in a world where the only acceptable behaviour towards the weaker nations is to attack them? And where helping someone out makes you the bad guy? One where a tech raid "isn't a war" but helping a tech raid victim with money is "an act of war"? Almost correct your story though it contains some flaws. The one kid was indeed without many friends. The bigger kid didnt bully him though. The one kid was showing off his sweets making the rest hungry but with no sharing at all. So he took it. I know, a bad thing to do but hunger = hunger and we all do weird stuff when we need the foodz. Then an Emo kid came by and gave the little kid some money purely for the (re-)actions it would cause. Willingly coming to the aid of the one kid. So then some friends of the bigger kid saw it happen and asked why the Emo kid would want to declare war between 2 Alliances. Emo kid had only 1 remark: Of course he send the bloody aid, but iFOK claims that its part of some great conspiracy propogated by Amonra and Invicta to destroy them all is ridiculous. Do you really view aiding a raid target as a valid CB? Lord Fingolfin hears something but has no clue where its coming from. No surprise though, thats usual isnt it? Please dont ever compare yourself to me again.What I did was rash and a mistake but i didnt hide from it nor did I try to find people who might be able to protect me. I am taking my lumps on my own. For you, you get the credits for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Those are basic Tech Raid rules (for Alliances that allow said Tech Raids). Though that is not the point here. The point is where other Alliances (Invicta, big surprise) step in to aid the Attacked Nation in such a way that it is a DoW by that Alliance itself (after all: a High Government Member of the Alliance is stepping in to declare war on iFok). This way a ''normal'' raid becomes a war. Not really, it still is a raid. Just because something unforseen happens doesn't mean a war suddenly pops up. The iFOK nation took a risk bullying around another nation. Obviously the nation had a friend willing to help out. If you see CN$3 million going to a tech raid victim as an act of war, that's ridiculous. Almost correct your story though it contains some flaws.The one kid was indeed without many friends. The bigger kid didnt bully him though. The one kid was showing off his sweets making the rest hungry but with no sharing at all. So he took it. I know, a bad thing to do but hunger = hunger and we all do weird stuff when we need the foodz. Then an Emo kid came by and gave the little kid some money purely for the (re-)actions it would cause. Willingly coming to the aid of the one kid. So then some friends of the bigger kid saw it happen and asked why the Emo kid would want to declare war between 2 Alliances. Emo kid had only 1 remark: Are you really trying to tell me the raided nation was asking to get raided? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 We didn't have 3 members in range. One of the big nations joined iFOK a few hours ago. We had 2 nations in range, one of which (myself) had 6500 infra less than Amonra. So, you couldn't help out because he was bigger than you? I'm sure Parano of Madness would have liked the option to cry "don't attack me 'cause you're bigger than me" as well. Double standards are awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm not bigger than Amonra. In fact he was 4k infra larger than me. If this is the best you can do, you should stop. You are making a fool out of yourself, Amonra and SNAFU. Actually... Before you got your war boner, you were at 117K NS. After you bought mil, you went to 120K. Amonra was at 113K NS. 120 and 117 are both bigger than 113. You do kindof have a tech advantage on him, you know. If you're having a hard time fighting a guy when you have more than twice his tech, you're doing something wrong. Believe me, I've been in the same situation as you, fighting guys who had bunches more infra than me but a whole lot less tech. Really, never had a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom98 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) Well I just want to give a shout out to ifok and fok for not imposing a double standard here. I can plainly see how fok goin war for a ally is completely justified and is in no where near the evil of one nation sending aid to another who is under attack. It is clear to see how that 3mil in aid would scare the life out of ifok that must have thrown the balance of power so far to the defending nations side that there must of been a blatant misuse of aid and power there. It is a shame that ifok doesn't understand how things work, if you are in a battle and your opponent has the resources to keep rebuilding itself the attack can continue and the attacker can reap even more benefits. Oh I guess that they didn't see it that way. From that standpoint it would seem that ifok is who cried first for it's big brother to run to it's rescue and save it from that nation who now had a whole 3 mil to fight with. I can only see that as, well just pathetic. Then again I am only basing that on the actions taken by those involved. In my opinion. *edit grammar Edited October 21, 2009 by Thom98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThirdMark Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well I just want to give a shout out to ifok and fok for not imposing a double standard here. I can plainly see how fok goin war for a ally is completely justified and is in no where near the evil of one nation sending aid to another who is under attack. It is clear to see how that 3mil in aid would scare the life out of ifok that must have thrown the balance of power so far to the defending nations side that there must of been a blatant misuse of aid and power there.It is a shame that ifok doesn't understand how things work, if you are in a battle and your opponent has the resources to keep rebuilding itself the attack can continue and the attacker can reap even more benefits. Oh I guess that they didn't see it that way. From that standpoint it would seem that ifok is who cried first for it's big brother to run to it's rescue and save it from that nation who now had a whole 3 mil to fight with. I can only see that as, well just pathetic. Then again I am only basing that on the actions taken by those involved. In my opinion. *edit grammar You sound like yet the next best idiot shouting around without any what really was going on. Shouldnt you join Invicta for this? I'd suggest you read the topic again, and again and again (for it seems that the first try it was utter failure and nothing more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Coming to the aid of a Treaty Partner is ridiculous? Coming to the aid of the treaty partner?? You make it sound like iFOK was being assaulted by some oppressive force and FOK magnanimously has come to their defense against a bully. I'm calling...!@#$%^&*. This is the equivalent of [ooc] the U.S. going to great Britain and being like "yeah, turns out some dude in luxemberg sent 50 bucks to Al Quada, we need your help to go kill him" [/ooc]. Kriek should have been able to take on Amonra with ease and won. Lord Fingolfin hears something but has no clue where its coming from. No surprise though, thats usual isnt it? Are you being intentionally obtuse? FOK and iFOK are claiming right here in this thread that aiding the AAF raid victim was an "act of war". Which remains and always will be, worthy of derision by any sane individual EDIT: By all means, present your side of the story, because whilst perhaps being overly sarcastic I fail to see where he strays from the evidence Edited October 22, 2009 by Lord Fingolfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkoink12 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Coming to the aid of the treaty partner?? You make it sound like iFOK was being assaulted by some oppressive force and FOK magnanimously has come to their defense against a bully. I'm calling...!@#$%^&*. This is the equivalent of [ooc] the U.S. going to great Britain and being like "yeah, turns out some dude in luxemberg sent 50 bucks to Al Quada, we need your help to go kill him" [/ooc]. Kriek should have been able to take on Amonra with ease and won.Are you being intentionally obtuse? FOK and iFOK are claiming right here in this thread that aiding the AAF raid victim was an "act of war". Which remains and always will be, worthy of derision by any sane individual EDIT: By all means, present your side of the story, because whilst perhaps being overly sarcastic I fail to see where he strays from the evidence if luxemburg was bigger than the US, your story would be correct. And would GB turn them down? Don't think so. And would france go crying about it in the OOC: OWF boards? Great example Edited October 22, 2009 by oinkoink12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 if luxemburg was bigger than the US, your story would be correct. And would GB turn them down? Don't think so. I do believe iFOK is bigger than Amonra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkoink12 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) I do believe iFOK is bigger than Amonra. I believe that children are the future I believe Invicta is bigger than iFOK I also believe that AmonRa was the acting president at the moment. Edited October 22, 2009 by oinkoink12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learz Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I believe that children are the futureI believe Invicta is bigger than iFOK I also believe that AmonRa was the acting president at the moment. Lol. So, wait, did you attack him before or after he resigned from Invicta? Oh, wait, didn't FOK attack him 24 hours after iFOK attacked him? After he left Invicta? Oh sorry, don't let my facts and logic get in your way; carry on, good sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I believe that children are the futureI believe Invicta is bigger than iFOK I also believe that AmonRa was the acting president at the moment. Hard to be an acting president of Invicta when on another AA, Invicta doesn't allow dual membership via the charter. And if you check our forums, you'll also see he's masked as a multi-colored diplo and has been since he moved off the AA. He resigned from his position and posted to notify us of such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkoink12 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Lol. Oh, wait, didn't FOK attack him 24 hours after iFOK attacked him? After he left Invicta? Yes, per his and iFOK's request. Who says we never do something for purple Edited October 22, 2009 by oinkoink12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonra Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yes, per his and iFOK's request.Who says we never do something for purple Just for the sake of keeping the record straight, the PM i sent saying "come get me" was sent to iFOK. At no time did I speak to FOK or request that they attack me. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learz Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yes, per his and iFOK's request.Who says we never do something for purple I think you mean per iFOK's request; which came as a surprise to many of us, we thought iFOK was more powerful then that. But oh well, at least the puppet master big brother was around to help purple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovel Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think you mean per iFOK's request; which came as a surprise to many of us, we thought iFOK was more powerful then that. But oh well, at least the puppet master big brother was around to help purple. I know it's a funny concept to the like of Invicta, but allies are there to help. You really need to figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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