TypoNinja Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Just out of curiosity...why is that? At the risk of pissing you off with bluntness, but in the interests of clarity. Sparta's performance during the war was !@#$@#$ terrible, I know you've improved since then, becuase frankly, I don't see how it could have been worse. Alliances a quarter your size fought harder and did more damage. Thats not to say you didn't have some good individuals (hi tulak!) but your level of engagement, coordination, and effect was just sad. The most famous case would have to be the two weeks Kingdom of Dark spent in war mode completely unengaged before slipping back into peace mode while your number 1 nation (at the time) was conducting a tech deal instead of engaging the enemy despite direct orders. You failed to fight as an alliance, so as a result far smaller, but better organized groups had a larger effect on the war. Thats why the "over rated" label, your huge both members and NS, but haven't successfully harnessed all your potential yet. Now I'm not trying to insult you, VE got creamed our first major war too, NAAC cleaned our clocks but good in GW2, and we learned a lot from that conflict, hopefully your military learned as much as from the Karma war. Now I like you guys, I really do, but hopefully you've lit a fire under your DoD in the after math of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Guess I disliked Bama before it was cool then. I can't be bothered going and reading the terms but is this another Invicta argument? 'We got <alliance> taken out of the war so... yay...' cause that's a terrible argument. Long story short I don't judge TOOL only on Bama's actions and if you're conceding their military preparedness then that's pretty much everything. I don't remember the terms exactly, but they involved Sparta and whoever giving a few actual concessions to TOOL. This was after a few white peaces, and nobody had any reason to expect TOOL to sit around in the war forever, they weren't that deeply tied into it. But their terms somehow managed to be even better than white peace, despite being on the massively overwhelmed side of the fight. TOOL are generally quiet, but they definitely are competent and can handle themselves well, which automatically puts them above like half the alliances currently out there, including let's say at least a third of the sanctioned alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) Zoom is very wrong, hating Bama and his incessant posting and -Bama'ing has been around far longer than since the karma year. Almost since his debut here I'd say. I know I just wanted to boost my own ego and pretend like I started the anti-Bama craze. It's not really anything to do with you guys being under/overrated, I just find it funny that Sparta would take shots at NSO when Sparta is such a terrible alliance. And so many reasons too. Aegis and getting sent to pink, staying there for so long, having Sparta as your theme while having no culture besides 300 references, having Sparta as your theme while having such a god-awful military, leaving the Continuum then calling it Toilet Seat in about the space of a day, your performance in the Karma war, getting to #2 in the game through reliance on your theme that is nothing but a facade. I'm sure I'm missing a few more reasons, but that's a start. lol, this is actually a really good post. Edit: I don't remember the terms exactly, but they involved Sparta and whoever giving a few actual concessions to TOOL. This was after a few white peaces, and nobody had any reason to expect TOOL to sit around in the war forever, they weren't that deeply tied into it. But their terms somehow managed to be even better than white peace, despite being on the massively overwhelmed side of the fight. TOOL are generally quiet, but they definitely are competent and can handle themselves well, which automatically puts them above like half the alliances currently out there, including let's say at least a third of the sanctioned alliances. Well, this kinda just makes me think even less of Sparta tbh. I can just imagine the negotiations... 'Hi, I'm Salmia! ' 'We'll do anything you want...' Edited October 7, 2009 by WildThing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Zoom is very wrong, hating Bama and his incessant posting and -Bama'ing has been around far longer than since the karma year. Almost since his debut here I'd say. Heh, 6.7 posts per day isn't quite incessant. And nobody really made fun of the "-Bama" thing til the war. Though what's really funny is that people think it'll offend me or something. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Philip Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Unoriginal but interesting thread all the same. OVERATED: Valhalla; NPO's original bootboys suffer from being over rated for all the wrong reasons, folk think they're aggressive nutters, they're not. UNDERRATED: Valhalla; For organisation and spirit you'll struggle to find an equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) I really do not see where any of this "malcontent" with Bama is coming from. Having personally fought and served alongside him both as a Phoenix and a friend through the long months of the karma war, his true nature was shown to the world. He is honorable beyond all measure, willing to give himself for the cause, and is generally an all around polite and friendly person. I really see no point to it. Edited October 8, 2009 by Airikr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Guess I disliked Bama before it was cool then. I can't be bothered going and reading the terms but is this another Invicta argument? 'We got <alliance> taken out of the war so... yay...' cause that's a terrible argument. Long story short I don't judge TOOL only on Bama's actions and if you're conceding their military preparedness then that's pretty much everything. How is it a terrible arguement when it was done on such a large scale? 5 ) Sparta, DT, AO, and Brig agree NOT to declare war, offensively, against any of the following alliances: IRON, TPF, FEAR, NEW, UCN, Zenith or NPO until the end of the "Karma" War. I'd say that was pretty damn impressive. They're very underrated when it comes to foreign affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshgazza1992 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Underrated: TDSM8. That was a great alliance. And I'd agree with FARK being underrated too.Overrated: RoK. NAAC. Why would you say RoK is overrated? I am genuinely curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) Aegis and getting sent to pink, staying there for so long, So we're terrible today because of decisions and color movements that were literally years ago? That is like saying TOOL is horrible because they had a low average NS years ago. having Sparta as your theme while having no culture besides 300 references You do not know our culture. Do not pretend to do so. having Sparta as your theme while having such a god-awful military Really?....I mean....come on. leaving the Continuum then calling it Toilet Seat in about the space of a day Some former friends in Q called us allies and then traitors in nearly the same space of time, and that was before we left. your performance in the Karma war has been beaten to death. getting to #2 in the game through reliance on your theme that is nothing but a facade. Um...what? You don't get 13 mil NS by quoting 300 all day. I'm sure I'm missing a few more reasons, but that's a start. You hate us for a lot of reasons that could be easily cleared up by just getting to know us. Edited October 7, 2009 by Hyperion321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 How is it a terrible arguement when it was done on such a large scale? I'd say that was pretty damn impressive. They're very underrated when it comes to foreign affairs. Sparta was practically a liability from the start and getting them out of the war probably helped Karma. Not to mention the fact that I bet Sparta was very happy with that clause themselves. They barely put any effort into the war anyway and just wanted to come out #1 afterwards. I refer you back to my last post of how negotiations went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Um...what? You don't get 13 mil NS by quoting 300 all day. It has been proven time and time again that having a huge NS means little. See: Legion in GW3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 In my opinion... Overrated: RoK, Bel Air, Sparta, MHA Underrated: The Family, FOK, GATO, NV, NEW, possibly NADC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 It has been proven time and time again that having a huge NS means little. See: Legion in GW3. My point stands. Our theme is not the reason why we are statistically large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 has been beaten to death. It doesn't matter how many times anyone says it that isn't a rebuttal, and it certainly doesn't detract from the fact that your performance was terrible. And even if that were the only negative thing about Sparta it would be a pretty good reason for you to be over-rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Also the obvious mentions: Andromeda in their prime, tLC, NSO, Jedi Order.. All the alliances these days run by single personalities because they can't stand not being in charge. Sparta, TOOL and MHA also fit in here I guess but I don't think anyone really rated them in the first place.Under-Rated: Fark at military ability, FOK, MK, Umbrella. lol We rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 My point stands. Our theme is not the reason why we are statistically large. Let's face it, there's nothing particularly interesting about Sparta besides the 300 reference. I'd venture to guess that it is the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sparta was practically a liability from the start and getting them out of the war probably helped Karma. Not to mention the fact that I bet Sparta was very happy with that clause themselves. They barely put any effort into the war anyway and just wanted to come out #1 afterwards. I refer you back to my last post of how negotiations went. Sparta still continued on the NPO front. It was mostly GK working the negotiations while on completely different time zones of many in the war. I don't think the man slept for a few days straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I can't believe the mockery of '-bama' is really meant to actually cause emotional injury or upset to bamabuc. Rather, it's merely an expression of derision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o ya baby Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Why TOOL sucks in three, easy to read lines: 1. 5,674 cruise missiles, 240 nations. ~24 cruise missiles per nation. 2. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=2002 3. -Bama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) It doesn't matter how many times anyone says it that isn't a rebuttal, and it certainly doesn't detract from the fact that your performance was terrible. And even if that were the only negative thing about Sparta it would be a pretty good reason for you to be over-rated. He did not say over rated. He said terrible. I understand how it could make us over rated. I do not understand how it makes us a terrible alliance. Let's face it, there's nothing particularly interesting about Sparta besides the 300 reference. I'd venture to guess that it is the reason. You too know nothing of our culture. edit: "-bama" is a childish thing to make fun of. OMG HE SIGNS HIS NAME AFTER EVERY POST HURRRRRRR Edited October 7, 2009 by Hyperion321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Guess I'll throw in my $.02 as well... Overrated: FoK, Athens Underrated: Monos Archein, NEW (our old OPP brothers who have never been anything but impressive) and FAN (I think people consider FAN a bit of an afterthought, but any alliance that can survive the crap they endured and continue keep going deserves respect, no matter what you think of them personally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Why would you say RoK is overrated? I am genuinely curious. Heh. I don't have a big list like I do for Sparta. Mainly it's because you dropped so much in the Karma war, and were on the winning side. And because after Hoo left you guys were big and sanctioned but didn't seem to have any 'strong' leaders, at least not ones that were big personalities like Hoo. But maybe they were internally focused :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus Pullo Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Overrated - TOP Underrated - NSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Heh. I don't have a big list like I do for Sparta. Mainly it's because you dropped so much in the Karma war, and were on the winning side. They fought !@#$@#$ hard. That's no reason to call them over-rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Heh. I don't have a big list like I do for Sparta. Mainly it's because you dropped so much in the Karma war, and were on the winning side. And because after Hoo left you guys were big and sanctioned but didn't seem to have any 'strong' leaders, at least not ones that were big personalities like Hoo. But maybe they were internally focused :/ For the record, I wouldnt consider Rok overrated now. With Hoo back and members like Welsh and KaitlinK joining Rok from MA, they're doing just fine in the great personalities and great leaders pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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