Announcement From The Echelon

[King Andrew IV]

forcible removal of government members sucks

[Sylar]

Your link leads to a topic titled "For Those Who Castigate Us, Declaration of War" .

ok they didn't start this war they honored there treaty, when they tried to avoid the war you all called them cowards so how would you have handled the situation.

[Gofastleft]

forcible removal of government members sucks

Good thing nobody is being removed from government in this case then.

[Heft]

Echelon entered this war on their own volition, with encouragement by treaties. They started their war, it just happened to be going on at the same time that the other war was.

Did you just say that? This is real, right?

I mean you. Really have you repented for your sins sir? Or you going to complain and then commit the same sins again?

No one really changes. I doubt you have either.

I don't believe in sins. I will say that those who have the greatest claims against me are people that I am currently working with to some degree (people in Frostbite and people in GATO). I played my part in the hegemony and now I'm playing my part to prevent a reprise. More importantly, I have never tried to hide from my past, or the things that I allowed to happen, as many others are trying to do. Further, I'm not sitting here exploiting the same movement that rose up in opposition to an institution I profited from.

[Lord Brendan]

You are just lying or you have a short memory, check this link to see what really happened.

and waiving Section 4.3 of the same Article

4.3 Notice of all of offensive military actions shall be given no less than 3 days (72 hours) in advance of action.

See, they're waiving an article that pertains to offensive military actions; it's an acknowledgment that they were entering an offensive war.

[AbysmalPea]

Just chiming in to say that the people who made these terms are idiots.

[Amoshu]

ok they didn't start this war they honored there treaty, when they tried to avoid the war you all called them cowards so how would you have handled the situation.

"For Those Who Castigate Us, Declaration of War" .

I wouldn't have responded to the comments, because they wouldn't have happened. When I'm told an ally is being attacked, or an ally is at war, I ask for a target.

[LordAkanata]

Good thing nobody is being removed from government in this case then.

10. Should Caffine1 rejoin Echelon he is permanently banned from holding any government position within the alliance.

You may be technically correct, but I don't see how this is any better.

[D34th]

Your link leads to a topic titled "For Those Who Castigate Us, Declaration of War" .

See, they're waiving an article that pertains to offensive military actions; it's an acknowledgment that they were entering an offensive war.

I give up.

[Case Wintermute]

Has anyone stopped and asked Echelon if they even WANTED Caffine back in government BEFORE getting worked up? I am under the impression that Echelon really didn't haggle much over this particular point.

[Amoshu]

Did you just say that? This is real, right?

Yepper. In order to make ANY sense of the wonderful treaty chaining that always seems to happen, I personally view each war as individual wars. Thankfully, Lord Brendan posted something that should fit the bill for explaining #8 to folks who don't view things the same way I do.

[Waterana]

After reading those crappy disgusting 'terms', I am now fully convinced that our side can no longer be called the Hegemony, because another group has claimed the name. Though they'll have to be known as Hegemony 2 of course. That name rolls of the tongue a lot easier than Non-Karma Karmaites. Well done, you've kept the cart and just changed drivers.

In time, when those of you on that side, whether you call yourselves Karma or not, are busy trying to wipe each other out, I hope these terms, and those you you have in store for TPF which I don't expect will be any different to these, not to mention the fake terms those fighting us are trying to inflict on the NPO right now, come back to bite all of you firmly in the rear end. Now that will be Karma.

Yepper. In order to make ANY sense of the wonderful treaty chaining that always seems to happen, I personally view each war as individual wars. Thankfully, Lord Brendan posted something that should fit the bill for explaining #8 to folks who don't view things the same way I do.

So using that logic, all the alliances fighting us right now, except OV, are guilty of starting their wars? Interesting.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Waterana

[Nizzle]

I love it. Watching history being rewritten before my very eyes is so cool.

[Heft]

Has anyone stopped and asked Echelon if they even WANTED Caffine back in government BEFORE getting worked up? I am under the impression that Echelon really didn't haggle much over this particular point.

They probably didn't, but that's really not the point.

[Starcraftmazter]

forcible removal of government members sucks

He's not in government.

[Voodoo Nova]

He's not in government.

...That's not the point.

[LordAkanata]

Has anyone stopped and asked Echelon if they even WANTED Caffine back in government BEFORE getting worked up? I am under the impression that Echelon really didn't haggle much over this particular point.

If Echelon wanted to expel Caffine, they would have made a separate announcement about the matter. The fact that his prohibition from government is in the terms suggests that the alliances at war with Echelon (or some of them anyway) wanted him gone. They're imposing their will on Echelon about who can be in government or not, and that's just not cool.

[TypoNinja]

...That's not the point.

Yea it kinda is, you can't remove somebody from a position they are not occupying.

[x Tela x]

Almighty Grub, ironically, said everything I would have said, a few pages back.

I'm glad to see the comments from Freddie Mercury and various other former allies of Echelon. It's good to know that Echelon will still have friends when this is all over.

[crazyisraelie]

I don't believe in sins. I will say that those who have the greatest claims against me are people that I am currently working with to some degree (people in Frostbite and people in GATO). I played my part in the hegemony and now I'm playing my part to prevent a reprise. More importantly, I have never tried to hide from my past, or the things that I allowed to happen, as many others are trying to do. Further, I'm not sitting here exploiting the same movement that rose up in opposition to an institution I profited from.

No you're doing it because it's morally convenient. You knew what you were doing. There wasn't some magical force telling you what to do. You did it because it was the cool thing to do. You are complaining, because you think it's good pr for your alliance. You are complaining, because you aren't in control anymore.

[x Tela x]

Yea it kinda is, you can't remove somebody from a position they are not occupying.

The term just says that he can't hold a government position again. He left Echelon .gov right at the start of this war. The term says he can't come back.

[Kochers]

Sorry you have to suffer such harsh terms Echelon. Here's to hoping that your reps are paid quickly.

You know where to come when you need help rebuilding.

And now, my personal musings on some of the posts in this thread.

:/

Never liked these terms when I first caught wind. Harsh as hell, to punish for misdeeds of gov members no longer in Echelon.

We'll continue to do everything in our power to help.

Also, NADC's treaty with Echelon is only considered to be suspended.

That is exactly how it's going to be.

The paper means little.

I like the sentiments. True friendship doesn't need a treaty.

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

This has to be the single best post from Polar ever, in my personal opinion. I will have to very much re-examine my distaste for the NpO.

Last I spoke with them, Echelon was of the opinion that they'd pay it off in about a month.

Last I spoke with them, I heard it was going to be closer to 2 months.

[Xiphosis]

I signed up for this war in December. Delta's already posted a timeline of how it happened, but for those who didn't read it, SF officially made the decision to oppose NPO at that time.The next war they brought to us, regardless of who they brought, we'd go all out.

For those who call these terms hypocritical, I will point you to the other fronts I am, or was, involved in. GDA, Echelon, AB and NPO. Those who've done the worst over the last few years have gotten the worst terms, the others have gotten off with relatively nothing.

To those of you out there who fought and participated in drafting the terms of surrender for NPO in GW1 who would now condemn me for ensuring that Echelon admits it's hand in starting, and losing, it - to you, I have the utmost of contempt. You had your chance to head off all that's happened and you dropped the ball. You allowed NPO to run rampant, to claim they won the war, and slaughter you en masse. I will not repeat your mistakes.

Echelon, with one group or another behind them, has been on me and my allies backs since the day I surrendered in UJW. They've thrown threats around both in public and in private, often with a large amount of leaders from their allies joining in to ensure I knew just who would com and step on my throat. One of these little strong-arm sessions with UmbraeNoctum and Caffiene directly led to ArGo disbanding into VE. The issue didn't involve neither Echelon, nor NPO. It concerned a dispute between OCUK and ArGo. Echelon had only recently joined 1V after abandoning BLEU, and that wasn't lost on me. Had I been at a computer (OOC Crap), we would've made our stand then.

To suggest they had any illusions what I would do - the insane, incredibly amounts of hellfire and death and brimstone and just exploding crap I would rain down on them endlessly, if they attacked me or one of my allies is to suggest they cannot read.

I've made it incredibly and unendingly clear on multiple occasions that I considered them due for a pounding few others have warranted before over the time I've spent on this game. They were never a minor hegemonic power to me, to the contrary, they were one of the main antagonists. If you add up the number of threats sent to the my allies over the last era of CN, only NPO can pass Echelon in sheer volume.

The terms as they stand can, and likely will be, be paid in under two months. They are not easy, and they will drain many nations to virtually nothing. That is the point; to reduce and cripple the military capacity of your enemy while increasing your own and giving yourself room to surpass them even farther as they rebuild.

I do not expect the swagger and mentality Caffeine and Tela embodied so well to have left with them, and what's more, I don't care either way. Echelon represents one of the most consistent opponents of the Global Order of Darkness. It's my job to ensure they are as weak as I humanly can.

I decided to join this side thinking it'd be a war. Not a revolution aimed at spreading free love and peace. I want no part of that. If I wanted that, I'd resign and join GPA. I wanted, and have fought, a war - with legitimate objectives and the backbone to see them carried out until either my opponents lay dead or I did. I have laid down terms I consider best suited to crippling them. Yes. That's what this is. Those who've done nothing have gotten nothing in terms, those who have done everything, have or will have everything taken in kind. Echelon is one of those.

I will not allow these $%&@ers to rise up again unless I have a hammer big enough to slam them back to the depths where they belong. They had their chance to be a force for good in the world, they had years, and they abused it. You reap what you sow, so sorry.

[In Spades]

GOD, TTK and GR deserve quite a bit of respect and tech, based upon their caliber and strife I witnessed on the battlefield. Thank you's and drinks all-around.

"cute demeanor?" Are we looking for a pat on the jockstrap AFTER blowing the crap out of everything? Seems a bit out there/redundant. That's essentially saying "well... you can hate us, but don't let us catch you do it!"

The Caffeine part just makes me laugh. I realized that there are some great members in Echelon without him around. Without Moo's weight to throw around and after abandoning Echelon when everything was perceived as hopeless, I don't see the point in taking him out of the picture. You'd have to be in a huge heroin racket or be on a mountain of blow (Scarface style) to want him back anyhow.

All-in-all, those are some pretty harsh terms, but I can understand where they're coming from.

[Keres]

People going crazy on the fact Caffine was banned from Echelon govt, while HIS OWN MOUTH (or hands whatever the case I dont give a damn about right now) brought this upon himself... His very own going too far on a few... well lets call them questionable subjects... which some people thought "OMG WAS FUNNY LIGHTEN UP" while they were nothing but open and uncalled for attacks on some people brought this on him.. how anyone can cry over this (and his) stupidity is beyond me...

Plus the guy was running his mouth all the while hiding in peace and dropping the ball on his BELOVED alliance... to be honest, this peacemode loudmouthed warrior got what he deserved..

Otherwise ill say this, MOST Echelons fought with all they had for what they believed in for that ill respect those that gave me a run for my money...

Edited July 6, 2009 by keres666