Announcement From The Echelon

[Nizzle]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

Someone can end this thread now. I don't think we're going to get better than this.

[R3nowned]

Good fight Echelon. Rebuild fast.

o/

[AirMe]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

mmmhmmm. Well stated.

[King Srqt]

Compare what Valhalla has done in its history to what Echelon has done in its and get back to me. I promise their is a distinct difference. Also, Im upset over this government thing. Read my post. I never wanted chefjoe removed from government.

Selling out your allies to gain membership in a bloc is pretty bad but judging by your first post in this thread you felt that these terms were harsh based off the fact that ecehelon only entered to honor a treaty (OOC: I'm paraphrasing because I'm on my phone and direct quotes are hard) which is also the same way Valhalla entered. Echelon has its share of blood and treachery on its hands and I can see why those engaged would ask for these terms based on that history.

Now the question is do you feel terms should be judged on the history of the alliance or on the circumstances of this specific war?

[Marty McFly]

Terms 8, 10, and 11 should never exist in any surrender terms.

RoK, good job on not taking any reps

Athens, good job on taking it easy on the reps

[D34th]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

Because quoting this 2 times isn't enough. I couldn't said it better, even in portuguese, you won again Grub

Edited July 6, 2009 by D34th

[KaitlinK]

I havent gotten through all 11 pages yet but I would like to say a couple of things...

Neo you are a class act I wish I had gotten the oppertunity to get to know you under different circumstances. I wish you well in leading Echelon through the period of rebuilding. I believe that your alliance is in exceptional hands.

I am pleased to see this war come to an end and the members of Echelon that fought with honor are to be comended. Good luck to all of you!

[Zombie Glaucon]

Are you guys happy now Echelon for backstab polar and sell us for gain one vision membership?

Banning people from gov? 26 people to pay 34k of tech? Karma, I just want to say thank you for make my sigs become more than propaganda but truth.

Frankly, I think this post is stupid.

[astronaut jones]

Frankly, I think this post is stupid.

I love how karma is tearing itself apart . As if the ideals and the way some fought and handled themselves were somehow more just than others. Everyone's a hypocrite here.

BUT! I love reps, and I never professed to be better than anyone else, so y'all can be mad at these terms, but pffft, if I were in charge of any of these alliances I'd just be in here pointing and laughing at all the ex karma alliances for being the hypocrites I know you all to be.

[Augusta Antonia]

It's great to see Echelon get peace. Love you guys always... o/ Echelon

[Matthew Conrad]

Terms 8, 10, and 11 should never exist in any surrender terms.

RoK, good job on not taking any reps

Athens, good job on taking it easy on the reps

Regarding 8, Echelon did declare to involve itself. It declared on the side of NPO who did start the war. If it had declared it's involvement on the side of someone who didn't start the war, then the opposite would be true.

Regarding 11, take it for what it is (a joke). If it was serious, Echelon would've probably been declared on again.

[Mixoux]

I love how karma is tearing itself apart . As if the ideals and the way some fought and handled themselves were somehow more just than others. Everyone's a hypocrite here.

BUT! I love reps, and I never professed to be better than anyone else, so y'all can be mad at these terms, but pffft, if I were in charge of any of these alliances I'd just be in here pointing and laughing at all the ex karma alliances for being the hypocrites I know you all to be.

You don't have to be in charge to bask in the flames.

[Coven]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

Best post I have ever read. You sir, win in every way possible.

[ChairmanHal]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

I have my problems dating back to my days in Browncoats when Echelon government made a hobby of harassing Browncoats in these forums at every opportunity. While I was at Ragnarok we got along with Echelon for a time, but grew to hate them and the feeling was mutual.

Yet I look at these terms and I'm forced to agree with Grub...completely. Childish sums them up.

For me it's not even the over the top reparations. I'm sure someone will at some point pull out a calculator and demonstrate how they figured out Echelon could pay these. The formula probably includes optimistic estimates that would make Mary Poppins look like a fatalist, but be that as it may, it's all the other little touches to this treaty that make it particularly beneath what I would expect from the alliances listed.

Edited July 6, 2009 by ChairmanHal

[Vandal]

Honestly, I am disgusted.

Be extremely clear, I think Echelon have much to answer for, but not to the assembled throng of self appointed vigilantes riding under the banner of Karma.

Echelon did not start this war, the entered to defend an ally. Forcing an admission of this kind is pathetic, unworthy of your lofty ideals and contrary to the stated objectives of this campaign.

Banning people from government, I know how this one feels, honestly again, disgusting and pathetic.

The actual terms, you people need to take your collective head out of your collective fundamental orifice and have a good look around, mostly at yourselves and ponder some home truths. Right now you hold a tenuous grip on some power, the grip is tenuous because individually most of your alliances rely heavily on others to enjoy any kind of power at all. Enjoy the power trip while you can.

Instead of making a stand for a better world, you just set it back well into the dark ages. I frankly expected crap terms, but to see so many alliances benefit from the corruption of Karma and others suffer at its hand is simply too much for the camel to bear.

Hopefully the childish, pathetic and overbearing nature of some of you and yours has been sufficiently sated now.

tl:dr. way to win the battle and lose the war. NFI.

This wins the thread. I can't put it any better which is why I quote it.

Echelon, you fought bravely and with honor. You held your values and promises during the war with TOP/TSO not to use nukes. Any issues were taken care of by your government, in terms of rogues, in a quick and decisive manner. For this I salute you.

Personally though, I think the terms suck. Karma =/= Hegemony. Enjoy your 1.5 pounds of flesh Karma.

[Deadshot]

Regarding 8, Echelon did declare to involve itself. It declared on the side of NPO who did start the war. If it had declared it's involvement on the side of someone who didn't start the war, then the opposite would be true.

Regarding 11, take it for what it is (a joke). If it was serious, Echelon would've probably been declared on again.

That still doesn't mean Echelon started the war, Matthew. They honored a treaty, same as anyone else Karma or Hegemony.

Also, even though it's been quoted enough, well said Grub. I think that was the best way to sum up quite a few people's feelings.

Best of luck to all involved and I sincerely hope everyone can look towards a peaceful future.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Wentworth the Brave

[Zombie Glaucon]

I love how karma is tearing itself apart . As if the ideals and the way some fought and handled themselves were somehow more just than others. Everyone's a hypocrite here.

BUT! I love reps, and I never professed to be better than anyone else, so y'all can be mad at these terms, but pffft, if I were in charge of any of these alliances I'd just be in here pointing and laughing at all the ex karma alliances for being the hypocrites I know you all to be.

We're not part of Karma. Some of us seem to be part of the pack of Geniuses who present a conception of what Karma is (often fabricated from whole cloth) then proceed criticize it. "The Karma I made up in my head is soevil (just as evil as The Hegemony was, lulzzzz). And so hypocritical too!"

But anyways, Polar has no business in this thread chastising Echelon for when they stabbed us in the back. That's straight-out petty and beneath us.

[astronaut jones]

You don't have to be in charge to bask in the flames.

But it would be so much sweeter if I were running one of those alliances, to just rub it in the face of all the ex-karma alliances who think they're so much more just and honourable. Everyone fought for what they believed in, in the end, and everyone took from their opponents what they thought was deserved. Some alliances got off incredibly light in my opinion (valhalla, iron), some were presented with terms that I thought were incredibly harsh (NPO), but everyone has taken from this war what they thought was deserved of them, and what punishment they felt their opponents deserved.

I could !@#$%* and moan all day about the injustices I think certain alliances still need to pay for, but what's done is done, I can't fault people for taking what they did, nor can I fault people for asking of others what they think is justified. For something that has no central government, no central organization of any kind, and what everyone will acknowledge is a loose coalition AT BEST, there is an awful lot of indignation being passed around.

If you don't like it? So be it, you're not a part of it, you had your say already, you got what you felt was deserved, let the others get or do what they think is deserved now.

[TehChron]

I love how karma is tearing itself apart . As if the ideals and the way some fought and handled themselves were somehow more just than others. Everyone's a hypocrite here.

Not the Sith.

Weve generally been pretty upfront about where we stand on stuff.

Now if you'll excuse me, Im going to hide behind my Polar allies before anyone decides to call us out on it.

[elmekawy]

o/ Echelon

no more to say

[Matthew Conrad]

That still doesn't mean Echelon started the war, Matthew. They honored a treaty, same as anyone else Karma or Hegemony.

Also, even though it's been quoted enough, well said Grub. I think that was the best way to sum up quite a few people's feelings.

Best of luck to all involved and I sincerely hope everyone can look towards a peaceful future.

I'm pretty sure the terms point towards that particular front. I doubt anyone has illusions of Echelon starting the Karma War.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

I'll chime in as another who thinks these terms are overly harsh. Yes, Echelon has done some pretty !@#$%* stuff, but a few of these terms are a bit silly. For instance, forcing them to admit they started the war or some such nonsense when it's obviously not true. I'm not really sure why that was forced to be a term, as it doesn't accomplish anything but make some alliances look stupid.

I think Echelon should have gotten at least some harsh terms because of what they pulled with Polar, but this is rather excessive.

[Heft]

Well I didn't bother to look in here until I saw Caffine's thread. Once I saw the line about Echelon "instigating the war" I knew these were going to be some "interesting" terms. I won't bother going into detail because most of it has been covered. I'll just say that I agree entirely with Grub.

[Hydro]

8. Echelon admits that it started the war and that it was defeated soundly, and hereby surrenders to the collective might assembled.

What? Really?

10. Should Caffine1 rejoin Echelon he is permanently banned from holding any government position within the alliance.

So after all the !@#$%^&* about EZI being an abomination, you go and pull this !@#$?

11. Echelon must maintain a cute demeanor for the duration of these terms. Any change in demeanor from cute is grounds for the immediate resumption of hostilities. Refusal to comply with the above terms on a mass scale will result in continued warfare.

Yup, like this isn't open to abuse.

I'm dissapointed to see Echelon sign such terms and I've gained a whole new perspective on the ones giving them. A sad day all round for CN.

[crazyisraelie]

So after all the !@#$%^&* about EZI being an abomination, you go and pull this !@#$?

We aren't forcing him to stop playing the game.