Master-Debater Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 We at the MHA shall be talking with FIRE leadership regarding this matter shortly via private channels. Why don't you just admit that this isn’t about BTA/TAB anymore and is about an old grudge you have with me and come solve it person to person instead of running around using NS to pressure people into making decisions. I’m more than willing to talk to you but, as of this post, you contacted me for only a short while last night and then wound up leaving the convo. Out of everyone making a deal out of this you are the biggest. And you aren’t even in TAB or BTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 This will end well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) As a member if FIRE government, I wish I had the chance to vote against this decision like I should have had, however now I see how FIRE values the opinion of it's members and it's government. This was not a wise decision as we had nothing to do with this alliance and they already had a treaty and didn't need a protector because of it.EDIT: I wanted to add some more to the post and edit some grammar and spelling Even better. Carter acting unilaterally, not really a nice thing to do to other leaders of one's alliance It doesn't exactly invoke unity. About this situation, I have to say, "Please be real, please be real, please be real." If I'm being punk'd, I'd be so disappointed. This is better than the Christmas War. and Edited June 29, 2009 by Duncan King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrownso Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Depending on how their charter is worded, the leader may have the ability to do whatever he/she wants to without informing or getting the consent of other government members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekhine Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 We've got balls, you've gotta say that for us. As FIRE's Minister of Foreign Affairs, I wish I had been told about this protectorate before it was announced. This seems like quite the change in attitude here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Airing your own alliance's dirty laundry is never a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 This seems like quite the change in attitude here... I've been defending FIRE throughout this entire thread. It was indeed a ballsy move, but I was not informed about it beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekhine Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I've been defending FIRE throughout this entire thread. It was indeed a ballsy move, but I was not informed about it beforehand. I know that if I were a MoFA and an announcement like this was made, I sure as hell wouldn't be on the first page posting about balls. I'd be in some back room on IRC chewing out whoever was responsible while staying away from the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Depending on how their charter is worded, the leader may have the ability to do whatever he/she wants to without informing or getting the consent of other government members. That's very rarely a smart decision. The reason government positions exist in an alliance with a supreme ruler is because those peoples' opinions are there to advise. Getting other view points is never a bad thing as it may very well prevent you from making a bad decision. What surprises me the most is that FIRE has gov members with enough FA experience to have made a better, thoroughly thought through decision. It's a shame the opportunity was never presented. If they came to the same conclusion as we have here, the more power to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrownso Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 While it might have changed, the relevant portion of FIRE's charter states: Fire Lord: The Fire Lord is the figure head of FIRE and is entrusted with creating FIRE policy and directing the alliance to success. Such is the benevolence of the Fire Lord that they will always lead with the alliance at heart, and every decision shall be made to better the alliance. The Fire Lord is the supreme power in all matters concerning FIRE and her internal and foreign affairs, and as such has the power to create government offices and assign members to fill these offices at will. This includes assigning another member to the Fire Lord rank. Further more, the Fire Lord has the authority to enact doctrines and policies within the Federation that all members and government must follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crushtania Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Why don't you just admit that this isn’t about BTA/TAB anymore and is about an old grudge you have with me and come solve it person to person instead of running around using NS to pressure people into making decisions. I’m more than willing to talk to you but, as of this post, you contacted me for only a short while last night and then wound up leaving the convo.Out of everyone making a deal out of this you are the biggest. And you aren’t even in TAB or BTA. (OOC)I apologize for my internet cutting out last night, I've had some problems getting into IRC as of late.(/OOC) I'm backing up my friends and allies. I don't care if it was you or anyone else that reformed BTA I'd be gunning for TAB about this just as much. Excuse me if I have a BTA badge in my sig at TAB forums and want my old alliance's memory honored with the justice it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I know that if I were a MoFA and an announcement like this was made, I sure as hell wouldn't be on the first page posting about balls. I'd be in some back room on IRC chewing out whoever was responsible while staying away from the thread. What did you expect? I was in FIRE at the time, I had a duty to support the actions of my alliance. I've talked to FIRE's government in the back rooms, but my opinion remains unchanged. This required courage, and it is to be commended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 While it might have changed, the relevant portion of FIRE's charter states: If they don't inform the MoFA of FA stuff, then there's no point of even having one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Way to roll the Hard Six Also: Lines are being Drawn I hope this will get resolved diplomatically as soon as possible Edited June 29, 2009 by Mr Damsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekhine Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 What did you expect? I was in FIRE at the time, I had a duty to support the actions of my alliance. I've talked to FIRE's government in the back rooms, but my opinion remains unchanged. This required courage, and it is to be commended. To me, this just looks like Carter screaming for attention. If it wasn't Carter we were talking about here, I would have a different opinion. But this type of rash decision making without the consent of his members, even if his charter is written to allow it, just seems like a typical Carter move, which I'm very skeptical of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 (OOC)I apologize for my internet cutting out last night, I've had some problems getting into IRC as of late.(/OOC)I'm backing up my friends and allies. I don't care if it was you or anyone else that reformed BTA I'd be gunning for TAB about this just as much. Excuse me if I have a BTA badge in my sig at TAB forums and want my old alliance's memory honored with the justice it deserves. [OOC] thats kinda what I figured [/ooc] Then why not actually, you know, come talk to BTA instead of going around to our allies working behind the scenes? If this is indeed a problem between TAB and BTA then why not let TAB and BTA work it out? So far since BTA was reformed yesterday the only contact from anyone that I have received has been from you last night. TAB has made no attempt to come and talk to me. If this is about TAB and BTA why is there a serious lack of TAB/BTA conversations? You can back up your allies all you want but if they are unwilling to talk to the people they have issues with then you are backing up is a unwillingness to find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I know that if I were a MoFA and an announcement like this was made, I sure as hell wouldn't be on the first page posting about balls. I'd be in some back room on IRC chewing out whoever was responsible while staying away from the thread. I'd do both. I support this decision, find it ballsy, and even if I were not informed, would stand behind the decision. I like MD, and trust him. I would then yell at some poor fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) I urge all sides to attempt to solve this diplomatically. Bah you're no fun. Edited June 29, 2009 by James Dahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hey look, junk waving! Also I love the fact that we are squarely back in the era of smaller alliances using their larger allies as insurance to get involved with things they have no cause to. It's not really FIRE that I think has written potentially bad checks, but the VE... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekhine Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 I'd do both. I support this decision, find it ballsy, and even if I were not informed, would stand behind the decision. I like MD, and trust him. I would then yell at some poor fool. It would be difficult to post claiming ballsyness while also avoiding the thread. That being said, I understand why you would support your alliance's decision regardless. However, if I felt I was wronged in some way I wouldn't be posting hailing the decision, I'd be absent. No one would think twice if whoever it was didn't post and instead left the thread alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hey look, junk waving!Also I love the fact that we are squarely back in the era of smaller alliances using their larger allies as insurance to get involved with things they have no cause to. It's not really FIRE that I think has written potentially bad checks, but the VE... It's like Carter is actually Ephriam Grey reincarnated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Xander the Only Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 This is lame. TAB and BTA should just duke it out, 1 on 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deth2munkies Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hey look, junk waving!Also I love the fact that we are squarely back in the era of smaller alliances using their larger allies as insurance to get involved with things they have no cause to. It's not really FIRE that I think has written potentially bad checks, but the VE... TAB has essentially done the same with MHA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinousOne Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 One Fire leader has left over this. Any others leave that are not so active in this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 One Fire leader has left over this. Any others leave that are not so active in this discussion? Presumbly I am the FIRE leader you are referring to, who has left FIRE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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