I hate GGA drama

[uaciaut]

There's no scooby snack for this so idk why some people are even bothering with it.

[Un4Gvn1]

Holy $%&@ how hard is this to understand?

I'm not saying that mhawk's time = Ironchef's time = shaneprice's time. I AM NOT SAYING THAT

What I am saying that regardless of the time zone, regardless of the ping, time always elapses at the same rate

Source

12:03:53 AM -> 12:04:27 AM = 34 seconds

Source

Ironchef's screenshot 1

Ironchef's screenshot 2

Those screenshots prove that the entire 3 lines of query with mhawk and the first 7 lines of the GGA government chat all happened within the same minute.

Source

2:04:35 -> 2:04:59 -> 24 seconds

For Moo's version of the story to be correct:

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

I am going out on a limb here, but I believe that mhawk all ready had Skype up and Moo was all ready sitting in GGA's channel. You are correct about pulling those things up from scratch taking time, but I think that isn't a factor here.

[hizzy]

You know sometimes people joke about facepalming and giving eachother headaches and whatnot? I just read this thread and I had to take 2 advils. I'm not even joking. [ooc: I can probably even get warned for being completely OOC because I literally did have to go to my kitchen and get 2 advils]

I hate you guys so much right now. And most of all, I hate you because I don't even know who/why to hate, so I'm just going to mass-hate.

[KIADO]

Are you saying that 34 seconds on mhawk's computer is supposed to be different to 34 seconds on ironchef's computer? In a way that actually matters, i.e. more than a few microseconds off?

check your PC time with an atomic clock and you have the answer

[Jack Diorno]

Holy $%&@ how hard is this to understand?

I'm not saying that mhawk's time = Ironchef's time = shaneprice's time. I AM NOT SAYING THAT

What I am saying that regardless of the time zone, regardless of the ping, time always elapses at the same rate

Source

12:03:53 AM -> 12:04:27 AM = 34 seconds

Source

Ironchef's screenshot 1

Ironchef's screenshot 2

Those screenshots prove that the entire 3 lines of query with mhawk and the first 7 lines of the GGA government chat all happened within the same minute.

Source

2:04:35 -> 2:04:59 -> 24 seconds

For Moo's version of the story to be correct:

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

I can sense the frustration when your trying to explain it, and everyone keeps saying "but their times will be different by a few minutes" over, and over.

Here is an example I want everyone to try wrap your heads around.

My system clock says its 12:07 and Sileath's says its 12:09, OK? Then i talk to sileath for a full minute, my time will be 12:08, and his will be 12:10. The clock's times are still different but the amount of time that elapsed is still the same.

Sileath is saying that regardless of the slight minutes of difference on everyone's clocks, the amount of overall seconds that elapsed for the course of events to transpire exactly as Moo has stated do not add up.

eg.

For Moo's version of the story to be correct:

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

[magicninja]

They are assuming that Mhawk wasn't typing to Moo as Ironchef was typing to him and that Moo wasn't typing to GGA at the same time Mhawk was typing to him.

[Reachwind]

If you want a reason to fire your government I would say, "they got us curbstomped" is all the reason needed.

[Teriethien]

Is it out of the realm of possibility that some of those seconds are overlapped?

Yup. In the same way that it is possible for the NPO to force Karma to surrender by force of arms tomorrow. I don't know about the likelihood of that, though.

But let us examine the overlapping theory in a more serious manner. There are 3 events that took place during this minute: (i) ironchef telling mhawk, which lasted an indeterminate number of seconds; (ii) mhawk telling moo, which took 34 seconds; and (iii) moo telling ironcheft, which was 24 seconds long.

Mhawk's OP clearly showed that (i) and (ii) happened sequentially; that is, there was no overlap. That would have to be found between (ii) and (iii).

I'm going to assume here that Moo must have received the information first before he could pass it on. Not to devalue the NPO Emperor's intelligence or anything. If this assumption holds though, then we see that it took mhawk 7 seconds to communicate to Moo that GGA is the concerned party. Telling Moo that the alleged reason was because "there was to be no gov change" took the full 34 seconds.

According to the shaneprice[GGA] logs, it took Moo 8 seconds to explain that reason to the GGA. Assumign Moo could type instantaneously, this would mean that there is a possibility that up to 8 seconds of the GGA log overlapped with mhawk's skype log. There are 16 seconds left in the GGA log.

That's 50 seconds accounted for. This leaves 10 seconds (in the best possible scenario) for the following:

- ironchef to type 3 lines

- mhawk to react

- moo to react

- moo to type "you can't leave"

Still looks pretty implausible. Of course, given currently available evidences I cannot say for sure what happened; I merely wish to point out that the official story is looking highly suspect at the moment.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Teriethien

[Teriethien]

check your PC time with an atomic clock and you have the answer

Even my cheap digital watch isn't off by more than a second per month. I find it hard to believe that 60 seconds on 3 computers could vary by a meaningful amount.

Or did you miss the part where I said, "In a way that actually matters, i.e. more than a few microseconds off?"

[Melchior]

A tl;dr, please?

[Teriethien]

A tl;dr, please?

Rumour about Athens hitting GGA for a change of government.

ironchef said moo told her, she told mhawk, mhawk told moo, and moo told GGA.

mhawk and moo says ironcheft told mhawk, mhawk told moo, and moo told GGA.

Logs say that ironchef spent 2 to 10 seconds telling mhawk whyin either version of the story.

Good enough?

[Sande]

Where did you take that "One minute" thing? Maybe I didn't notice that. I still think there was something not counted right. And if I am wrong and it is like you say, all sides are a bunch of liars.

[Teriethien]

Where did you take that "One minute" thing? Maybe I didn't notice that. I still think there was something not counted right. And if I am wrong and it is like you say, all sides are a bunch of liars.

It's not actually 1 minute; in practice it would probably have been under 60 seconds. However since ironchef's logs did not have seconds on them we could only establish a full minute as the upper bound for time taken.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1559455

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1559655

As the log in those links showed, Ironchef talked to mhawk at 00:04, and Moo came to talk to the GGA at, also, 00:04.

[agnews]

screenshots please

if all your second theorys are right then moo should have told ironchef if i understood correctly

if u are so happy to argue over a couple of seconds then lets see some screenshots of moo telling ironchef that gga is going to be attacked

i will now go and nuke myself because of the massive headack that i have been given

Edited May 26, 2009 by agnews

[Teriethien]

screenshots please

if all your second theorys are right then moo should have told ironchef if i understood correctly

if u are so happy to argue over a couple of seconds then lets see some screenshots of moo telling ironchef that gga is going to be attacked

i will now go and nuke myself because of the massive headack that i have been given

Heh. There's a difference between showing one hypothesis is highly implausible and saying that some other theory must be true.

[Chimaera]

Can't they just disband already? They'd be saving us these ridiculously long and idiotic walls of text we keep getting about their own blatant incompetence.

[astronaut jones]

This is getting all too ridiculous, the drama just needs to end.

Edited May 27, 2009 by astronaut jones

[Rush Sykes]

I think this needs to be comended for its sense. NPO dont want GGA back what benefit does that actually bring to NPO. Moo has made some bad decisions recently but he isnt inept like GGA. ( sorry for the GGA bashing but really how many times can you Coup your own government.)

Cheers

SunTzu

The funny thing about coups, when your allies support the couping side, then couping is good! When they support the losing side, couping is bad. Charters be damned, its really all about who the allies feel safer with. As for DeScepter, I do not know her, have never met her, but something tells me that in so far as her lying to Mhawk, I believe her when she says she is afraid to cross the line between what she should tell her allies in good faith, and what she thinks she should protect for the privacy and sovereignty of the alliance, I once had to tread that fine line, and it is not an easy task. It is my personal belief, though not relevant to anyone, that Mhawk and Pansy were sort of condescending towards her from the get go. If it was because they were concerned about the legality of the government change, then I can understand to a certain extent, but it became clear to me 15 lines into the 1st chat, that nothing any of them said would save their treaties. Like I said, just my opinion.

[Haflinger]

Just look at the motives here to see who is lying:

GGA: Throw NPO under the bus, get good PR, show their new independence, and put a stop to the latest GGA coup.

NPO: Get GGA back in the war because they are awesome fighters and the war will totally change if they come back in.

This post makes a whole lot more sense than obsessing over timestamps that may or may not be exactly accurate.

[Teriethien]

It is my personal belief, though not relevant to anyone, that Mhawk and Pansy were sort of condescending towards her from the get go.

Good to know I wasn't the only one.

[Electron Sponge]

Hmm I think I'll be needing the specs of the way each program handles time, the ping rate of each party involved, as well as the exact time comparisons between all the PC's that were ivolved. You narrow all that down and I might give your theory a second look.

I'd say this pretty much sums it up for me.

I'm not sure why this discussion even exists.

[agnews]

I'd say this pretty much sums it up for me.

I'm not sure why this discussion even exists.

well i am beat.........

[ChairmanHal]

Like I said, this is looking a lot like the break down of various video/sound sources recording the Kennedy assassination. Eventually everyone goes off into the weeds and starts talking about "at frame blah blah blah there is this faint shadow here that to me demonstrates...." when all they really have to do is go to the School Book Depository, look out the window, and see that any well trained marksman could have easily made the shots that killed Kennedy with or without a rifle scope.

Before we start asking people to mail each other laptops so they can have their internal clocks examined, let's go back to basics: who had motive to lie, what is gained from that lie and what are the possibilities that all of this is just a comedy of errors?

All things concerned, this appears to be nothing more than a comedy of errors.

[King MyLife]

This is some great drama

[Rush Sykes]

Good to know I wasn't the only one.

Im glad I wasnt alone too.