Timoteo Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think it takes something just as horrible as NPO to counter the evil that NPO has become. Karma isn't NPO, but it has to act like NPO in order to defeat NPO. Maybe it has been successful in doing this so far. Some people have complained that NPO is unable to surrender here, but does NPO deserve peace? Why should they get it? I would say they have been asking for what they're getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardo Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 (edited) I do seem to recall, however imperfectly, that the NPO lost GWI, and were given very reasonable terms. It may be that surrender is difficult, if for no other reason, because it isn't clear who to surrender to. Karma is fairly diffuse and while there may be leaders of the movement is there any formal legal body that has sole authority? It's clear that this is a war targeted at the NPO leadership. If there is a sacrificial 'cow patty' the war may end sooner, if a 'sacred cow' mentality prevails the war could continue to the last drone. If the NPO continues to exist it may be required to change its culture so that there is no longer any internal position of near absolute power. Not to do this would leave the alliance as a ripe cherry for the some megalomaniacal sociopath to covet. The post Hegemony environment will likely not be Karma dominated. Too many overdeveloped egos. It will be anarchy with bouts of 'flatten the spike' wars. That is, an impulse to hammer down any alliance that shows a strength spike on the alliance score chart for fearing that it will be the next alliance to 'ruin' the game. So maniacally growing your alliance may be a path to pain. The hopeful result of all this will be that CN will be less inbred and attract more players. CN player population seems to have flattened out for a long while and maybe a little action will attract and retain new players. What I personally hope to see is less savagery in terms of surrender and what Karma does will certainly influence the future. I hope the new era will begin with a movement away from past trends. Edited May 18, 2009 by Lizardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Death II Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 (edited) Yea this war is more of a deflate the NS Balloon more then anything else. Sad thing is that all those in the top 1% are too scared to loose their PRECIOUS infra and are sitting in peace mode and not fighting so I bet this war will be dragged on for A LONG LONG time. I say about 2-3 more months. Edited May 18, 2009 by King Death II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Paul Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 While foreseeing the future is not one of my many superpowers, I can predict that terms must first be offered by Karma before the Order can surrender. When will terms be offered? During the course of the war I've heard the following: After Karma defends OV Karma will offer terms. After Karma knocks the Order out of the number 1 slot Karma will offer terms. After Karma knocks the Order under 10 million NS Karma will offer terms. After all Pacificans come out of peacemode Karma will offer terms. So far, terms have not been offered, but I was able to create the "NPO Terms" formula below, where X = Current Conditions minus 1 "After X happens Karma will offer terms." So as long as Moo can time-travel to the future he will have the opportunity to accept the terms. However, whether he will I can not say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 While foreseeing the future is not one of my many superpowers, I can predict that terms must first be offered by Karma before the Order can surrender. When will terms be offered? During the course of the war I've heard the following: I wonder if you've heard them from the people that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 (edited) While foreseeing the future is not one of my many superpowers, I can predict that terms must first be offered by Karma before the Order can surrender. Depends on who wants peace first. When will terms be offered? During the course of the war I've heard the following:After Karma defends OV Karma will offer terms. After Karma knocks the Order out of the number 1 slot Karma will offer terms. After Karma knocks the Order under 10 million NS Karma will offer terms. After all Pacificans come out of peacemode Karma will offer terms. So far, terms have not been offered, but I was able to create the "NPO Terms" formula below, where X = Current Conditions minus 1 I don't believe you were actually approached officially by anyone of Karma. "After X happens Karma will offer terms."So as long as Moo can time-travel to the future he will have the opportunity to accept the terms. However, whether he will I can not say. No terms have been offered yet. But if you want peeace, try to negotiate. Edited May 18, 2009 by Tromp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I gave them one additional minute beyond the time I had spent waiting for answers. They refused to comply, and thus were obligated to fight the war they started. I am an evil warmonger. I'm also slightly smelly. Keep away from children at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Tolstoy Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I kinda hope NPO never surrenders. I want to beat on them for a long time to come. As for Karma offering terms, I see no point. If/when NPO feels beaten, they can sue for peace, and beg for terms. If they offer enough in reparations, they won't really have to beg. Most of Planet Bob is quite happy with the way war is going today. Many commanders are getting much needed experience that they just cannot get in peace time. o/ Karma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonid Tolstoy Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Oh, I got that idea from the leaders in Karma promoting "change". I thought that the "change" they were talking about was removing an evil, corrupt dictatorship, not replacing it.As I have said, I read through about as much as there is to offer on this war. I am sorry I wasn't actually there for the peace talks, but I read through the IRC logs and read many articles in the wiki and many threads on the forums. After all that reading I am still convinced that even though the NPO wasn't right for starting all of this, it's still not right for Karma to promote change and promote that they offered peace and yet everything I hear is still hypocrisy. Neither the NPO nor Karma are in the right for this war. WOLF is an official alliance now. I recently requested protection from FOK. We are pro-NPO, but we also realize that the NPO won't always be there for us. A quick google for Karma will explain about moral justice. Those of you who attempt to paint Karma as some fuzzy, warm, Christian concept of loving forgiveness are simply full of SPIN. Stop spouting nonsense. You know, and I know, there are enough naifs to believe you, but the world is NOT entirely populated by the naive. Your posts are little more than GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. You're wasting bandwidth with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliee Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I gave them one additional minute beyond the time I had spent waiting for answers. They refused to comply, and thus were obligated to fight the war they started. I am an evil warmonger. I'm also slightly smelly. Keep away from children at all times. And let's be honest; that wasn't the wisest thing to do in the world. If you had been more patient or more lenient in allowing them time, then we could have peace now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureShadow Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Honestly, it'll probably be when NPO membership gets sick of the fighting and either most of them quit, or they coup the government and negotiate with KARMA based on that. I belong to neither party, so I can't say anything for sure. But I can guarantee they won't be pulling a FAN. They may try, but it won't work the way it did for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 And let's be honest; that wasn't the wisest thing to do in the world. If you had been more patient or more lenient in allowing them time, then we could have peace now. Yeah it was all Archons responsibility to suck up to NPO and give them any terms they wanted. Seriously, the terms weren't exactly harsh to begin with. No matter how you twist and turn this question you can't escape the fact that NPO started this war, nobody else. If you want to cry over your lost infra in defence of one of your closest friends I heard that hegemony POW is recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 And let's be honest; that wasn't the wisest thing to do in the world. If you had been more patient or more lenient in allowing them time, then we could have peace now. Hmmm yes, he should have given NPO all the time they wanted so they could escape into peace mode. Genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 we could have peace now. Peace is overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 They want to fight, let them fight. They wont get terms till they surrender if I recall correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 And let's be honest; that wasn't the wisest thing to do in the world. If you had been more patient or more lenient in allowing them time, then we could have peace now. You know what would have given us peace? Nobody declaring war. No one is ever obligated to let someone blitz them and then immediately declare peace. If you don't want to fight a war, don't attack. If you attack and then decide to surrender the next day, you're not really in a position to dicker about the terms. Either go to the table and accept the terms you get or don't. Wasting time arguing after less than a day of war in a war you declared where you are requesting peace doesn't accomplish anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliee Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Hmmm yes, he should have given NPO all the time they wanted so they could escape into peace mode. Genius. Yes, because when you try to work out surrender/peace terms, you stop fighting. If they'd allowed that, then they would be even more stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Yes, because when you try to work out surrender/peace terms, you stop fighting. If they'd allowed that, then they would be even more stupid. I'm sorry the aggressors didn't get to decide when the war ended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) I think the real question here is. If NPO wanted peace at the start of this war would giving peace to them have made karma as bad as them? Edited May 19, 2009 by neneko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotherington Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynthFG Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Unconditional Surrender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 And let's be honest; that wasn't the wisest thing to do in the world. If you had been more patient or more lenient in allowing them time, then we could have peace now. No we wouldn't. We would be fighting an NPO that was better prepared for the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I'm putting my chips on the longshot, and saying that NPO will win the war.... FAN style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Stranger Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I'm putting my chips on the longshot, and saying that NPO will win the war.... FAN style. I am not sure how to say this... bit a win is a win any way you look at it. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 For what it's worth, I highly doubt that NPO has the mental fortitude or the cult-like following to pull a FAN. While they may have a great propoganda machine, they would hemorage members left and right until all that was left was maybe 5-10 of their hardcore fanatics. Seeing as they would find far more success in the future if they followed their past and surrendered, took reps, and then started up the much herald "aid machine" - I'm sure they'd find themselves far ahead of where they would if they pulled a FAN. Then again, we'd have to accept their surrender, give them terms, find a single violator and then crush them all over again for them to even have a chance to pull a "FAN" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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