Statement From the Orange Defense Network

[Mussolandia]

Why don't you tell that to the six alliances that bailed last night? They pretty much won the war against...themselves...

Fine if you just don't like ODN. I realize that some people just don't like other people. Period. But don't let it blind you. Be happy they're making some sort of effort and/or choice. They could've just as easily said, "To hell with all of this!" and declared neutrality, avoiding any possibility of conflict altogether.

I dislike the ODN because they have opposed everything I believed in for as long as they have been here.

But I am not blind. I make my judgements on the basis of clear evidence. They have consistently, for three years and running, failed to stand by their allies in their time of need. They let LUE down in the Great Patriotic War. They let the Legion down when the Pacific and co. came for them. They let the NpO down in the Second Great Patriotic War.

And I refuse to see this as anything but shortsighted opportunism. The world at large will not be so forgiving the next time the ODN manages to disappoint those it clings itself onto.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Mussolandia

[Mussolandia]

I do not think this war had been won before it was ever fought, but then I'm not privy to the volumes of IRC conversation that no doubt went into the mass exodus of NPO "allies." I also believe the time/date stamps on the announcements are entirely germane to disproving your point. Had the ODN made this announcement knowing that IRON and company were going to turn their backs on the NPO, then perhaps you vitriol would be warranted. This was not the case and the rest of us a left seeing your venom as the rants of some poor soul blinded by the hatred seeded some 3 years ago at the onset of the Citrus War, which is a shining example of just how hot the ODN blood runs, by the way.

The Citrus War is an example of how the ODN were born to be servants in this world and not masters. You challenged your betters and you lost. The experience, that of defeat and humiliation, marked the alliance forever. It was never able to shape the world on its terms after the NPO wiped the floor with them.

My score with them was settled the day they bowed their heads in shame and swore never to wage war on the NPO again. It is a burden which I see you still carry, Neboe. My quarrel with the ODN is moral and philosophical, not personal. They should not worry about how I feel about them, but rather how the hundreds they left by the wayside feel when they come to collect their debts. And believe me, it will happen eventually.

[BamaBuc]

I'll say to you what I said to MHA. When everyone calms down from the war frenzy, they're going to realize that any treaty with you isn't worth the paper it's signed on. You will never live this down. At least it was MHA's first time doing this kind of crap. Not so for you. This, along with what you did last year, is what the ODN will be associated with forever. This is your legacy. A legacy of dishonor, cowardice, and betrayal. I hope you're proud.

-Bama

[franciscus]

Why don't you tell that to the six alliances that bailed last night? They pretty much won the war against...themselves...

Yes, because canceling one MADP when they have two more MDoAPs means they won't defend their allies Now, go away, you failed first grade in trolls school already.

[Coursca]

*snip*

Sorry for the *snip*...didn't want to propagate more scrolling than necessary for such a minor post.

Soccerbum, I love you, too man, but you seem to struggle with separating me from IRON as a whole.

Well, I'm not IRON (regardless of what my AA says...but I addressed this in another thread).

And as I said before, I took this personally based on my own personal experiences, links, and ties to ODN. Separate me from IRON and even you can see why I'm angry with ODN right now and for the foreseeable future. I am speaking only for myself here, Soccerbum. Anything the other Councilors did or didn't do is not my concern here. That's on them to defend their actions.

[Scorbolt]

And I refuse to see this as anything but shortsighted opportunism. The world at large will not be so forgiving the next time the ODN manages to disappoint those it leeches onto.

I disagree Mussolandia. The ODN and Vanguard have shared a close relationship and they are certainly not shortsighted opportunists nor leeches for that matter.

[Cotillion]

If we went neutral because of conflicting treaties, we'd be trolled much worse than we're being trolled now.

If we went with the hegemony, we'd be trolled worse than we're being trolled now.

If we tried to defend every MDP partner who was attacked during this war, we'd be pummeled trying to spread ourselves out there, and still people wouldn't be happy.

You also continue to ignore that this decision was (officially) reached before NPO lost 6 treaties, and as for most ODN members, we already knew which side we wanted to support, despite the numbers being against us at the time.

So Bama, I'm very damn proud of the ODN, for choosing the right side, rather than the easy side (which would have been the hegemony, at the time). Think what you will of us, we're proud.

[shilo]

Yes, because canceling one MADP when they have two more MDoAPs means they won't defend their allies Now, go away, you failed first grade in trolls school already.

Ah, everyone's still waiting for the fun, sad it got delayed, but it is very much expected

[Mussolandia]

Vanguard lacks the ability and the connections to protect the ODN by itself. The New Polar Order did not. The Orange Defense Network drew on them like parasites for more than a year. They would have been destroyed by the New Pacific Order (or by GOONS later on) had their MDP not been signed. This MDP was one of the sticking points in the cooling of the relationship between big P and little p.

When the time came for the ODN to keep to their end of the bargain, they walked away.

On a separate issue, I have a question for Vox. Are you still at war with the ODN?

EDIT: @ Scorbolt

Edited April 22, 2009 by Mussolandia

[bill n ted]

I disagree Mussolandia. The ODN and Vanguard have shared a close relationship and they are certainly not shortsighted opportunists nor leeches for that matter.

lol.

ODN has been doing all it can to keep its senate seat and some relevance on Orange well in excess of 18 months (you should have seen them squirm when Q was set up ); do you really think Vanguard is the only alliance on Orange or even CN thats covered with ODN lipstick? Trust me, those ODN lips have sang a merry tune and kissed more than you could ever imagine, even I managed to get a peck on the cheek

Edited April 22, 2009 by bill n ted

[Doitzel]

On a separate issue, I have a question for Vox. Are you still at war with the ODN?

As of right now, yes.

[BamaBuc]

If we went neutral because of conflicting treaties, we'd be trolled much worse than we're being trolled now.

If we went with the hegemony, we'd be trolled worse than we're being trolled now.

If we tried to defend every MDP partner who was attacked during this war, we'd be pummeled trying to spread ourselves out there, and still people wouldn't be happy.

You also continue to ignore that this decision was (officially) reached before NPO lost 6 treaties, and as for most ODN members, we already knew which side we wanted to support, despite the numbers being against us at the time.

So Bama, I'm very damn proud of the ODN, for choosing the right side, rather than the easy side (which would have been the hegemony, at the time). Think what you will of us, we're proud.

Don't do what will get you trolled less. Do what you think is right. Do you truly believe that going back on your word is the right thing? If you give your sacred word to defend another, you have to honor it. If you don't want that obligation, don't sign MDPs. It's the price you pay. Like it or not, your word means nothing now, both in perception and fact.

The hegemony was already at a disadvantage in the stats.

-Bama

[Mussolandia]

Thank you, love. I pray you continue fighting the good fight, then.

[shilo]

Vanguard lacks the ability and the connections to protect the ODN by itself. The New Polar Order did not. The Orange Defense Network drew on them like parasites for more than a year. They would have been destroyed by the New Pacific Order (or by GOONS later on) had their MDP not been signed. This MDP was one of the sticking points in the cooling of the relationship between big P and little p.

When the time came for the ODN to keep to their end of the bargain, they walked away.

On a separate issue, I have a question for Vox. Are you still at war with the ODN?

EDIT: @ Scorbolt

Well, we definitely got a weak spot in our history.But as it is, we can't change what occured in the past, but continue to do the right things from there on.Which is why you read this announcement today.

Of course, since the purpose of your posting is simply producing hate spills of your dislike of ODN, no matter what, when and how, reason is of no relevance. But I do get warm fuzzy feelings when part of the NPO troll squad makes it a mission to do their business with ODN. Feels so... old school

lol.

ODN has been doing all it can to keep its senate seat and some relevance on Orange well in excess of 18 months (you should have seen them squirm when Q was set up ); do you really think Vanguard is the only alliance on Orange or even CN thats covered with ODN lipstick? Trust me, those ODN lips have sang a merry tune and kissed more than you could ever imagine, even I managed to get a peck on the cheek

Usual epic BnT fail.

As it is, ODN has being doing what it can to lend the seat away during the past months

Edited April 22, 2009 by shilo

[KingSuck]

I'll say to you what I said to MHA. When everyone calms down from the war frenzy, they're going to realize that any treaty with you isn't worth the paper it's signed on. You will never live this down. At least it was MHA's first time doing this kind of crap. Not so for you. This, along with what you did last year, is what the ODN will be associated with forever. This is your legacy. A legacy of dishonor, cowardice, and betrayal. I hope you're proud.

-Bama

this, just this. You're running out of people to betray ODN.

[Doitzel]

Thank you, love. I pray you continue fighting the good fight, then.

To be fair, Musso, ODN was screwed on this front by simple virtue of being tied to both sides. Either way they went they were going to get the "you betrayed your friends again!" line, and it'd be even worse if they went neutral. At the very least they seem to have chosen the side that has behaved more like friends to them, and you and I both know they are probably justified in the "NPO is hostile toward us" line of thought.

[Mussolandia]

Well, we definitely got a weak spot in our history.But as it is, we can't change what occured in the past, but continue to do the right things from there on.Which is why you read this announcement today.

Of course, since the purpose of your posting is simply producing hate spills of your dislike of ODN, no matter what, when and how, reason is of no relevance. But I do get warm fuzzy feelings when part of the NPO troll squad makes it a mission to do their business with ODN. Feels so... old school

Your first paragraph: thank you for admitting I was basically correct.

Your second paragraph: there are plenty of reasons given, which you seem to have agreed with or ignored. Pot, meet kettle. I'd rather have you posting something of substance next time.

[bbrownso]

Don't do what will get you trolled less. Do what you think is right. Do you truly believe that going back on your word is the right thing? If you give your sacred word to defend another, you have to honor it. If you don't want that obligation, don't sign MDPs. It's the price you pay. Like it or not, your word means nothing now, both in perception and fact.

The hegemony was already at a disadvantage in the stats.

-Bama

I think just ignoring certain treaties is even more reprehensible than ignoring them all.

If we went neutral because of conflicting treaties, we'd be trolled much worse than we're being trolled now.

I very much doubt that. Not many can fault you for doing what custom says is the correct thing to do. Just ignoring one side makes you seem like a frightened child running from a fight.

[Mussolandia]

To be fair, Musso, ODN was screwed on this front by simple virtue of being tied to both sides. Either way they went they were going to get the "you betrayed your friends again!" line, and it'd be even worse if they went neutral. At the very least they seem to have chosen the side that has behaved more like friends to them, and you and I both know they are probably justified in the "NPO is hostile toward us" line of thought.

Well, I never said they were competent. Other alliances took corrective step to avoid setting themselves in the legal dilemma ODN got itself into.

I actually believe they would have been better off being neutral this time. As much as they try to dispel it with their usual nonsense, they will be viewed as opportunists. Indeed, I can see that from the manifestations of some neutral parties on this very same thread.

[shilo]

Your first paragraph: thank you for admitting I was basically correct.

Your second paragraph: there are plenty of reasons given, which you seem to have agreed with or ignored. Pot, meet kettle. I'd rather have you posting something of substance next time.

I have absolutely no issue saying that I believe it was a huge mistake. You will find many ODN members, in all positions, saying the same.

We don't need to glorify our past blindly to be able to feel good about ourselves.

Your second paragraph: there are plenty of reasons given, which you seem to have agreed with or ignored. Pot, meet kettle. I'd rather have you posting something of substance next time.

It is pointless to pretend any stance taken by the ODN is one of principle instead of convenience. These people have never had warm blood in their veins. It doesn't matter which announcement came first or last.

After reading this, it is quite obvious that any participation of you in here is lacking above all things, reason.

Unless of course, an unchangeable grudge dating back 3 years ago can be considered a reason.

[Dagrr]

A quick question for ODN:

Do you not consider Soylent ORRPLE to be active? According to the Legion forums it is.

Thanks in advance.

[Cotillion]

Late replying to this, but Bama, what I meant was that we'd get the same abuse about being optional etc. no matter what we did. Unless we honoured everything, which would have been retarded. So we did what we thought was right, as was said so many times in this thread, but you seemed to miss that part.

[joracy]

To be fair, Musso, ODN was screwed on this front by simple virtue of being tied to both sides. Either way they went they were going to get the "you betrayed your friends again!" line, and it'd be even worse if they went neutral. At the very least they seem to have chosen the side that has behaved more like friends to them, and you and I both know they are probably justified in the "NPO is hostile toward us" line of thought.

I demand you don't support us. It's too much to bear D:

[shilo]

A quick question for ODN:

Do you not consider Soylent ORRPLE to be active? According to the Legion forums it is.

Thanks in advance.

While I can not speak in an official capacity, I can say that the treaty has not been cancelled.

As Legion also has a remainder of the NPO occupation, ie that MDP, the treaty would be suspended in regards to this conflict.

Edited April 22, 2009 by shilo

[Chickenzilla]

Its nice to see the other side telling alliances that they'll get theirs. This is what we told all of you when you canceled on Polaris.