Statement From the Orange Defense Network

[Kiss Goodbye]

If ODN leadership is reading this--how 'bout blood brothers? It's hard to imagine that IRON wouldn't be drawn into this conflict.

Or does this edict supercede that as well?

Edited April 22, 2009 by Kiss Goodbye

[shaiker]

then your war with vox continues? if not why is your guy getting stomped by my newb nation ?

Edited April 22, 2009 by shaiker

[Soccerbum]

If ODN leadership is reading this--how 'bout blood brothers? It's hard to imagine that IRON wouldn't be drawn into this conflict.

Or does this edict supercede that as well?

I'm fairly certain it supercedes that MDoAP as well.

[Bullshirt]

This was a move that should've been done a long time ago. Good to see it finally done.

[insert mindless hailing]

[Ventus ex Gutter]

If ODN leadership is reading this--how 'bout blood brothers? It's hard to imagine that IRON wouldn't be drawn into this conflict.

Or does this edict supercede that as well?

If it is not one of those three treaties listed in the OP, then yes, it is superceded.

[Heft]

Trust me when I say this was neither an easy decision, nor a quickly made one.

I've always liked you Joracy so I'll try and be straight here. If this means that ODN is going to try and stand on its own as a meaningful player on the political stage than that's probably a good sign. It's probably not the best way to go about it and it shouts of "me too!"-ism, but that's okay. I'm sure you understand, though, that once this war is over plenty of people are going to go back to hating on you guys, and you have put yourselves in the same situation as MHA now where people are certain to, at some later conflict, point to this as evidence that you're untrustworthy and bad and whatever. Whether they support you now or whether they want to see NPO burn in an eternal fire it doesn't matter, the regular shifting of public opinion about who was right and who was wrong in UJW is proof enough of that, though there are certainly plenty more examples. You've just burned the strongest alliance that has made a habit of helping protect you and giving you a chance to get your own house in order before people come and knock it down, though, and I just don't see that ending well.

So, apparently, not only has IRON had a sudden bout of memory loss, but now they're pissed at us because we're tired of putting up with their BS on top of the reasons cited in the OP. And to add to it, they're not even trying to give us any modicum of explanation.

When IRON Starts showing that it at all wants to be an ally, then we'll damn sure be willing to reciprocate. At least degenerate108 actually came onto the ODN forum to plead GGA's case, an alliance we all know is so far in shambles it's amazing it's still breathing. IRON does not have that problem, and I know that they can take a couple minutes out of their oh so busy schedule to give us the time of day.

Make of it what you will...

I'd guess that one conversation just slipped his mind, but that's not really my place to address. IRON never lorded over you while I was there, and I find it difficult to imagine that's significantly changed since I've left. Quite frankly, if what you say were true, ODN would've canceled on Polar weeks earlier than you did and dodged a lot of the flak you ended up receiving, so, yea. Other than that, I guess that you just are tired of being in their shadow, which is understandable and if you want to get out of it then okay, but this was maybe not the best way to demonstrate your independence.

[Flying Squirrel]

o/ ODN

[lazyox]

This was a major thing that many members thought hard and long about . the number one thing was IRON very few if any wanted to stand up for NPO , but no one wanted to let IRON think that we would not stand with them .and IRON was clearley hegemony . then the GOONS thing happened and

IRON showed us where we stand with them .

I hope that IRON understands that we are not against anyone .but we are for justice and honorable actions .

ODN does not want war ,but we are not afraid of it . so we had to draw a line say this is it .i have never been prouder to be a member .

[Supra25900]

Nice to see this action.

o/ ODN

o/ Karma

[Soccerbum]

I've always liked you Joracy so I'll try and be straight here. If this means that ODN is going to try and stand on its own as a meaningful player on the political stage than that's probably a good sign. It's probably not the best way to go about it and it shouts of "me too!"-ism, but that's okay. I'm sure you understand, though, that once this war is over plenty of people are going to go back to hating on you guys, and you have put yourselves in the same situation as MHA now where people are certain to, at some later conflict, point to this as evidence that you're untrustworthy and bad and whatever. Whether they support you now or whether they want to see NPO burn in an eternal fire it doesn't matter, the regular shifting of public opinion about who was right and who was wrong in UJW is proof enough of that, though there are certainly plenty more examples. You've just burned the strongest alliance that has made a habit of helping protect you and giving you a chance to get your own house in order before people come and knock it down, though, and I just don't see that ending well.

I'd guess that one conversation just slipped his mind, but that's not really my place to address. IRON never lorded over you while I was there, and I find it difficult to imagine that's significantly changed since I've left. Quite frankly, if what you say were true, ODN would've canceled on Polar weeks earlier than you did and dodged a lot of the flak you ended up receiving, so, yea. Other than that, I guess that you just are tired of being in their shadow, which is understandable and if you want to get out of it then okay, but this was maybe not the best way to demonstrate your independence.

I'm glad that you have calmed down a little so that this can be discussed rather than argued.

While I don't speak for ODN, nor you for IRON, we both pretty much know how/why this went down. Plain and simple, ODN was tired of being the 2nd hand ally, the one to never get the information. I mean, honestly, NPO was on a 'higher level' than ODN in terms of being allies. It always was and always will be. Regardless, ODN tried time and time again to get to understand IRON better and get on better terms with IRON. Yet, I'm going to assume, it was because of NPO that ODN never got THAT close to IRON. It was almost as if IRON was walking with ODN, sure, but IRON was too busy on the phone talking to NPO in order to pay attention to ODN. I'm sure IRON backed up ODN 100% when it came to aggression from third parties. However, I'm just as certain that IRON would've stepped out of the way and claimed 'too many treaty obligations' had a different ally of IRON wanted to step all over ODN. I can see ODN being in a similar position as OV, actually.

IRON did do some things in the past that wouldn't necessarily be considered actions in which IRON 'lorded' over ODN. But God-forbid ODN did something that IRON didn't like. It was almost as if ODN couldn't take a step out of line without getting reprimanded. It's unfortunate that it takes up until NOW for IRON to finally see it.

I can assure it this is not a matter of preservation, or anything of that matter. IRON can troll ODN all they want. At the end of the day, though, ODN finally DID make a stand, and it was FOR the better. Because for the first time in a VERY long time, ODN took a stand. It has NO idea what is in store for it in the future, but hey, it finally said what it wanted to say.

With that said, the treaty ISN'T canceled. If IRON can somehow see why ODN did this, and why they've felt the younger cousin, twice removed, maybe, JUST maybe, once this whole war or whatever you want to call it is over, ODN and IRON can rebuild a TRUE friendship - the kind epitomized in the Blood Brothers Pact.

[Raider]

I love you ODN.

[The Desert Fox]

Far better than last time around, I must say.

Congrats ODN, best of luck.

[Twizzler]

I'm glad that you have calmed down a little so that this can be discussed rather than argued.

While I don't speak for ODN, nor you for IRON, we both pretty much know how/why this went down. Plain and simple, ODN was tired of being the 2nd hand ally, the one to never get the information. I mean, honestly, NPO was on a 'higher level' than ODN in terms of being allies. It always was and always will be. Regardless, ODN tried time and time again to get to understand IRON better and get on better terms with IRON. Yet, I'm going to assume, it was because of NPO that ODN never got THAT close to IRON. It was almost as if IRON was walking with ODN, sure, but IRON was too busy on the phone talking to NPO in order to pay attention to ODN. I'm sure IRON backed up ODN 100% when it came to aggression from third parties. However, I'm just as certain that IRON would've stepped out of the way and claimed 'too many treaty obligations' had a different ally of IRON wanted to step all over ODN. I can see ODN being in a similar position as OV, actually.

IRON did do some things in the past that wouldn't necessarily be considered actions in which IRON 'lorded' over ODN. But God-forbid ODN did something that IRON didn't like. It was almost as if ODN couldn't take a step out of line without getting reprimanded. It's unfortunate that it takes up until NOW for IRON to finally see it.

I can assure it this is not a matter of preservation, or anything of that matter. IRON can troll ODN all they want. At the end of the day, though, ODN finally DID make a stand, and it was FOR the better. Because for the first time in a VERY long time, ODN took a stand. It has NO idea what is in store for it in the future, but hey, it finally said what it wanted to say.

With that said, the treaty ISN'T canceled. If IRON can somehow see why ODN did this, and why they've felt the younger cousin, twice removed, maybe, JUST maybe, once this whole war or whatever you want to call it is over, ODN and IRON can rebuild a TRUE friendship - the kind epitomized in the Blood Brothers Pact.

Soccerbum has taken words out of my mouth, and said them much better than I ever could. Thusly, I have quoted his post, agreeing fully with its contents.

[Caesius]

So.

How many of you IRONers remember the "Closed Draft Period?"

'Cause I can name three in the ODN who remember it off the top of my head: shilo, Big Daddy Cha-Cha, and... me.

What a silly thing to still be bitter about, eh?

[joracy]

I've always liked you Joracy so I'll try and be straight here. If this means that ODN is going to try and stand on its own as a meaningful player on the political stage than that's probably a good sign. It's probably not the best way to go about it and it shouts of "me too!"-ism, but that's okay. I'm sure you understand, though, that once this war is over plenty of people are going to go back to hating on you guys, and you have put yourselves in the same situation as MHA now where people are certain to, at some later conflict, point to this as evidence that you're untrustworthy and bad and whatever. Whether they support you now or whether they want to see NPO burn in an eternal fire it doesn't matter, the regular shifting of public opinion about who was right and who was wrong in UJW is proof enough of that, though there are certainly plenty more examples. You've just burned the strongest alliance that has made a habit of helping protect you and giving you a chance to get your own house in order before people come and knock it down, though, and I just don't see that ending well.

I'd guess that one conversation just slipped his mind, but that's not really my place to address. IRON never lorded over you while I was there, and I find it difficult to imagine that's significantly changed since I've left. Quite frankly, if what you say were true, ODN would've canceled on Polar weeks earlier than you did and dodged a lot of the flak you ended up receiving, so, yea. Other than that, I guess that you just are tired of being in their shadow, which is understandable and if you want to get out of it then okay, but this was maybe not the best way to demonstrate your independence.

I am fully aware of what we have just done. I have talked quite extensively with IRON, and with a few other allies. This was not an action that was nice to take, but one that was decided we had to take.

[notime4bull]

o/ ODN although i still don't agree with doing this i see why we must

The Network Hungers

[shilo]

I'm glad that you have calmed down a little so that this can be discussed rather than argued.

While I don't speak for ODN, nor you for IRON, we both pretty much know how/why this went down. Plain and simple, ODN was tired of being the 2nd hand ally, the one to never get the information. I mean, honestly, NPO was on a 'higher level' than ODN in terms of being allies. It always was and always will be. Regardless, ODN tried time and time again to get to understand IRON better and get on better terms with IRON. Yet, I'm going to assume, it was because of NPO that ODN never got THAT close to IRON. It was almost as if IRON was walking with ODN, sure, but IRON was too busy on the phone talking to NPO in order to pay attention to ODN. I'm sure IRON backed up ODN 100% when it came to aggression from third parties. However, I'm just as certain that IRON would've stepped out of the way and claimed 'too many treaty obligations' had a different ally of IRON wanted to step all over ODN. I can see ODN being in a similar position as OV, actually.

IRON did do some things in the past that wouldn't necessarily be considered actions in which IRON 'lorded' over ODN. But God-forbid ODN did something that IRON didn't like. It was almost as if ODN couldn't take a step out of line without getting reprimanded. It's unfortunate that it takes up until NOW for IRON to finally see it.

I can assure it this is not a matter of preservation, or anything of that matter. IRON can troll ODN all they want. At the end of the day, though, ODN finally DID make a stand, and it was FOR the better. Because for the first time in a VERY long time, ODN took a stand. It has NO idea what is in store for it in the future, but hey, it finally said what it wanted to say.

With that said, the treaty ISN'T canceled. If IRON can somehow see why ODN did this, and why they've felt the younger cousin, twice removed, maybe, JUST maybe, once this whole war or whatever you want to call it is over, ODN and IRON can rebuild a TRUE friendship - the kind epitomized in the Blood Brothers Pact.

I quote for excellent content.

That said:

I really do understand the anger portrayed here by some IRON members. Of course, as IRON just cancelled an MADP with NPO, and kinda ignored the cancellation period, because they do not support NPO in this war either, IRON should be able to understand what led ODN to this decision.

IRON clearly prioritized NPO over ODN, I can understand that, but ultimately, as we've been a strategic ally to IRON when it was not interfering with them being allied to NPO, epitomized in the whole half year long attempt of ODN to sign that MADP with IRON, to be turned down repeatedly, even after going so far as to do things that disgusted most of us. We did that for IRON, but still priorities were made clear.

Now that IRON no longer has NPO as ally, I truly hope that ODN and IRON can built a relationship where both partners are considered equal. I, as well as many other common members in ODN, really do love the membership in IRON, we've enjoyed having them over on our forums.

[Soccerbum]

I think it was longer than half a year, shilo. And, to think, the things we had to go through just to try and get it. Sigh.

[Virillus]

ODN is an amazing alliance.

Yes, you have had your faults,your mistakes, and your errs. But you have redeemed yourself, and proven tht you're worth something real.

o/ Team Extreme

[Cataduanes]

*Cata grabs a Lucky Strike and lights up

Good morning Planet Bob,

Those of you who thought this was an easy decision are sorely mistaken, it has taken days of sometimes heated and furious debate that pretty much ended wth some of us at each others throat but our democratic principles were honored and the general assembly spoke in clear terms.

At least with this decision we in govt ensured that we would not repeat the mistakes of the Polaris cancellation and tha the rank and file would be heavily involved in the eventual decision, their was no attempt to circumvent our charter in order to gain what some of us wanted! this is a decision made by a general assembly with all the facts outlined to it.

Some of you may of course call it spineless but i think it is telling that for once we have acted, we will be fighting and we will be backing Vanguard, International and RnR to the hilt...make of it what you will, but some of us are happy today, some of us believe that ODN is finally moving back towards a place were she should be...only time will tell if the current govt is wrong.

......Then again if the numbers were switched around I could easily see ODN being on NPO's side of this matter.

Best thing for you to do ODN is either declare that you're neutral or stick with the friends you have formed in previous wars. Don't dump them like you did your old allies just because it looks grim for them.....

heh so we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. ..man that sounds familiar. Neutrality was discussed but given our past and some of our less than salubrious decisions on the eve of wars it was seen as a non-starter, today we also decided to back friends...friends such as Internatonal who were friends prior to the war..or Vanguard...or RnR!! does honoring these friendships not account for anything?

And lastly some of us campaigned hard for a change in ODN's direction...way back when this whole ongoing conflict was but a twnkle in someones eye, what you see today is the culmination of consensus building and debate, it is democracy in action and i will not make any apology for that.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Chickenzilla]

I still don't like you. You choose the convenient side to join. Either way, welcome to the good fight.

[scotch]

this makes me happy

also,

/me takes lucky from cata

i hope you brought enough for everyone

Edited April 22, 2009 by scotch

[Cataduanes]

I still don't like you. You choose the convenient side to join. Either way, welcome to the good fight.

Its not as clear cut as that CZ but alas i know this does not wipe the slate clean for us in some eyes, it may come as surprise but some of us never wanted to be tied to 1V...or IRON for that matter, it may come as a surprise to some that some of us had sympathies lying on the other side of the fence but yeah i know we have a long road to travel before you and others will give us the time of day

Edited April 22, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Style #386]

I still don't like you. You choose the convenient side to join. Either way, welcome to the good fight.

I am too tired to debate this, but I'll point out that it would have been much easier for us to have supported IRON.

[Cataduanes]

I am too tired to debate this, but I'll point out that it would have been much easier for us to have supported IRON.

Indeed far easier and far less exhausting.