TORN Announcement

[Wu Tang Clan]

I have already stated my feelings in private to LoSS that I don't like the way this announcement was worded. Apologies for that, it is not something we normally do.

While I (obviously, based on canceling the treaty) disagree with LoSS's course of action, best of luck to them in the future.

I'll ask TORN members to not post in this thread.

Thank you Woody. I praise your respect for a sovereign alliance.

You have impressed me.

[General Vengeance]

Your alliance was a member of Q for well over a year, you really can't turn around now and start bashing it. It just makes people wonder "Well if that's how you felt, why did you stay?"

We didn't stay, we left.

[Merrie Melodies]

I have already stated my feelings in private to LoSS that I don't like the way this announcement was worded. Apologies for that, it is not something we normally do.

While I (obviously, based on canceling the treaty) disagree with LoSS's course of action, best of luck to them in the future.

I'll ask TORN members to not post in this thread.

Just curious, you canceled on LoSS because they canceled treaties that had nothing to do with the treaty between LoSS and TORN?

So an Alliance can only be friends and play with TORN as long as it also shows love to all of TORNS buddies too?

Biker gangs have a word for a woman like that.

[Bernkastel]

These puns are not amusing.

Congrats LoSS, you definitely aren't losing something valuable.

I'm horrible at puns and comedy.

[bigwoody]

Just curious, you canceled on LoSS because they canceled treaties that had nothing to do with the treaty between LoSS and TORN?

So an Alliance can only be friends and play with TORN as long as it also shows love to all of TORNS buddies too?

Biker gangs have a word for a woman like that.

For my honest opinion, it showed me that a treaty with LoSS had no value, as they may or may not intend to actually honor it. I did not want to be allied to such a group.

Nonetheless, best of luck to them on their new path.

[Ghostlin]

To those of you complaining about LoSS's treaty changing and will probably inevitability use it to cancel with them: Canceling a slew of treaties with entities you might of signed with is bad, but trying to manufacture a CB to draw other alliances into war is?

Mmmmm....OK.

There's a saying about glass houses and stones that goes here.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Ghostlin

[Sulmar]

I point you to you're first post.

HE wasn't implying anything. You took his words, twisted them as you deemed fit, interpreted them in your own way, and then made that implication yourself.

I can make an implication out of anything said on here. That doesn't mean it was the intended purpose of the author. As you purposed.

Once again, quit looking for something that isn't there.

Furthermore, out of respect, I think you owe the man an apology for calling his comments "dumb". Even though all he did was say he wasn't trolling and didn't think other people who agreed with his view were trolling.

He said that he agrees with the 'non-trolls', thus implying that the people who he isn't agreeing with are in fact trolling. I don't believe that is a stretch at all. If he didn't mean it like that, then fine, but that is what it came off to me as.

I did indeed add a caveat about that, I'm still not entirely sure what he was going for there if he didn't mean what I think he meant, but I digress. I was not trying to twist his words, as it seemed to me his meaning was pretty clear. I found it uncalled for that an entire side was being labeled as trolls when both sides were messing around with each other.

Anyways, I'm done on this subject, as we seem to be going in a circle.

[jaaku]

Just curious, you canceled on LoSS because they canceled treaties that had nothing to do with the treaty between LoSS and TORN?

So an Alliance can only be friends and play with TORN as long as it also shows love to all of TORNS buddies too?

Biker gangs have a word for a woman like that.

no, the canceled due to the percieved reasoning of our treaty suspensions. Which is their right, and I have no problem with this cancellation. I like TORN, but I respect their actions.

good luck in the future TORN.

EDIT*

I also ask that no LOSS member post here.

Edited April 19, 2009 by jaaku

[Merrie Melodies]

For my honest opinion, it showed me that a treaty with LoSS had no value, as they may or may not intend to actually honor it. I did not want to be allied to such a group.

Nonetheless, best of luck to them on their new path.

It was very apparent that they canceled the ones they did not wish to honor, further more they canceled them during a time of peace, which is very honorable. What part of those actions display a sense of dishonor to you?

Don't you think that if LoSS had no plan to honor the treaty with TORN they would have added it to the long list of ones they scraped? I mean what would they have to gain by keeping it if they didn't attempt to honor it?

[deth2munkies]

For my honest opinion, it showed me that a treaty with LoSS had no value, as they may or may not intend to actually honor it. I did not want to be allied to such a group.

Nonetheless, best of luck to them on their new path.

Now I don't buy that.

You signed with them after they backstabbed Polar and GR, because they were backstabbing their side for yours. Now that they've straight up canceled (instead of just not honoring) treaties with your side, they're suddenly traitorous swine?

[Caesar di Cesare]

As a former leader of LoSS and current member of TORN, I can tell it more honestly than anyone else.

LoSS is an alliance full of savvy, ambitious players. They know the game. They have survived under conditions that would have caused any other alliance to disband.

They make smart moves. I can speak about some from direct experience. The LoSS-TPF treaty? Yeah, that started as a handshake between TheBigBad and myself. We looked at a situation facing our alliances and saw something in our mutual interest, and the trust held between two friends built that treaty.

A lot of agreements were made that way.

When the players who built them move on, things fall by the wayside. Unintentionally. Accidentally.

The truth is, a number of LoSS's treaties had begun to stagnate this way, and it can't be blamed entirely upon them because the burden for maintaining a relationship is incumbent upon both parties.

People may be critical of the timing of a cancellation that comes at a time of uncertainty and speculation, perhaps a time of impending war, but I cannot think of a better time to take stock of the value one places in relationships and to assess whether and to what extent the relationships even exist.

LoSS found that their principles were incompatible with the actions of treatied alliances with which they felt little affinity after time. So they made a big cancellation move. So people got pissed off and called them classless or cowards.

Whatever. They're honest. They're smart.

And as for TORN? Well. That sort of thing, smart, honest, or otherwise, is incommensurable with our philosophy of allies. So we go separate ways.

Dial down the rhetoric. Everyone is just doing what needs to be done.

[Ghostlin]

I'll ask TORN members to not post in this thread.

I also ask that no LOSS member post here.

Then is there really a point in the public discourse besides hearing from the peanut gallery?

[Ragashingo]

bigwoody:

best of luck to them in the future.

You sure about that?

[General Vengeance]

As a former leader of LoSS and current member of TORN, I can tell it more honestly than anyone else.

LoSS is an alliance full of savvy, ambitious players. They know the game. They have survived under conditions that would have caused any other alliance to disband.

They make smart moves. I can speak about some from direct experience. The LoSS-TPF treaty? Yeah, that started as a handshake between TheBigBad and myself. We looked at a situation facing our alliances and saw something in our mutual interest, and the trust held between two friends built that treaty.

A lot of agreements were made that way.

When the players who built them move on, things fall by the wayside. Unintentionally. Accidentally.

The truth is, a number of LoSS's treaties had begun to stagnate this way, and it can't be blamed entirely upon them because the burden for maintaining a relationship is incumbent upon both parties.

People may be critical of the timing of a cancellation that comes at a time of uncertainty and speculation, perhaps a time of impending war, but I cannot think of a better time to take stock of the value one places in relationships and to assess whether and to what extent the relationships even exist.

LoSS found that their principles were incompatible with the actions of treatied alliances with which they felt little affinity after time. So they made a big cancellation move. So people got pissed off and called them classless or cowards.

Whatever. They're honest. They're smart.

And as for TORN? Well. That sort of thing, smart, honest, or otherwise, is incommensurable with our philosophy of allies. So we go separate ways.

Dial down the rhetoric. Everyone is just doing what needs to be done.

You have my respect and apology. Well said.

[Oberfuhrer]

Oh btw TORN, I'm attacking one of your nations and put him into anarchy. Same goes for Valhallas little guy.

[Wu Tang Clan]

I found it uncalled for that an entire side was being labeled as trolls when both sides were messing around with each other.

He never called anyone a troll. He simply stated that he agreed with people who weren't trolling. Never said a word about the other "side."

[Sal Paradise]

Your alliance was a member of Q for well over a year, you really can't turn around now and start bashing it. It just makes people wonder "Well if that's how you felt, why did you stay?"

No kidding. See sig.

[Chickenzilla]

TORN isn't in Q.

Failhalla, Nervous Pacific Order, THORN, Hungry Phoenix Alliance, IGV, Multi colored government deserted alliance, and RON

New NPO bloc is close enough.

[Wu Tang Clan]

Failhalla, Nervous Pacific Order, THORN, Hungry Phoenix Alliance, IGV, Multi colored government deserted alliance, and RON

New NPO bloc is close enough.

I prefer Enron. Because we all know what happened there. But suit yourself.

[Nintenderek]

Failhalla, Nervous Pacific Order, THORN, Hungry Phoenix Alliance, IGV, Multi colored government deserted alliance, and RON

New NPO bloc is close enough.

This was one of the funniest things in this topic.

I also think it's funny how TORN and friends are going on in this topic about how everyone else are the bad guys, because they never start anything.

[Kwilliams]

My god, just make the puns stop. I don't care what this thread is about anymore, just make the puns stop.

[AirMe]

I have already stated my feelings in private to LoSS that I don't like the way this announcement was worded. Apologies for that, it is not something we normally do.

While I (obviously, based on canceling the treaty) disagree with LoSS's course of action, best of luck to them in the future.

I'll ask TORN members to not post in this thread.

I almost missed this. I will forgo my comment on the wording of this announcement then.

[Heft]

We didn't stay, we left.

Once it was politically expedient?

It's laughable to see anyone from Sparta try and criticize the hegemony or whatever, when you were and still very nearly are the hegemony.

[Corinan]

Failhalla, Nervous Pacific Order, THORN, Hungry Phoenix Alliance, IGV, Multi colored government deserted alliance, and RON

New NPO bloc is close enough.

If you're going to hurl insults at people, you mind doing it under your new AA? Thanks.

[WarriorConcept]

Without reading this thread I can understand why TORN would want to cancel the treaty after their treaty was suspended with only a few minutes notice iirc. So good enough reason for a cancellation there.

Other than that though, I don't think bigwoody is even qualified to use trashcan for loss

edit: from trying to catch up their treaty wasn't suspended? Can anyone confirm please, tia

Edited April 19, 2009 by WarriorConcept