Freeing FAN

[Canik]

I am not sure I know what you are talking about? I believe the original peace terms that FAN 'violated' to reopen the warfare between them was some very loosely supported numbers regarding soldier levels and other military assets. That is a whole other can of worms though that is probably best left closed.

I was talking about the reason for NPO's original declaration. They're lucky they got peace at all, they should've made damn sure they followed the terms.

If quitting CN is an option in a game because someone doesnt like you and wishes to war you endlessly, don't you think something is wrong with that?

Like Bzelger said, quitting CN is always an option. If they didn't want to quit, they could reroll and enjoy peace. Most of them at least.

Wasn't it ComradeBannedMember who was responsible for that?

He was one of the members involved. Even if he wasn't a full member he certainly had their support, and went along with his plan. They changed their A/A and color to appear as IRON members. 6 million isn't that much so we didn't think about it, that is our fault, but a respectable alliance wouldn't have changed their A/A to wrongfully take money.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Canik

[enderland]

So let me get this straight Canik.

Your reasoning for supporting the several year long war that FAN has been in is that they stole 6M from your alliance? Probably from nations that don't pay enough attention to the game to even know who FAN is?

edit to reflect your edit -

Simply tell your members to stop never send aid to random people that message them, problem solved..

Edited April 15, 2009 by alden peterson

[Rebel Virginia]

Then FAN exploited FEAR out of 6 million and that decided whose side we were on. Meanwhile, NPO has never tried to exploit or do anything underhanded towards FEAR.

So FAN stole a whole six million from you? Big deal. As for the NPO never exploiting you, of course they wouldn't. You're a lapdog to one of their lapdogs (be proud). Doesn't change the fact NPO and their buddies have extorted and wronged quite a few alliances not tied to them. Quite frankly, not being part of their little hegemony is all the motivation they need to want to wrong an alliance. NPO and Valhalla extorted MK, GR, CIS, and countless others before the last big war. Then they force CIS to disband, and then when they finally roll GR, Polar, STA, and MK, they impose harsh terms, so that they can extort more. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

So if you're going to get upset for being conned out of six million, well, please, give me a break. FAN has no issue with it because you have given your support to Pacifica, and for that you are an enemy (not to mention had NPO not been waging this war you'd still have that six million). But yes, I'm digressing here. My point is, if you're going to condemn FAN for six million, first take a look at those you call friends. NPO, IRON, Valhalla. Take a look at what they're doing, or take moral outrage elsewhere.

[Remaliat]

Signed

[Canik]

So let me get this straight Canik.

Your reasoning for supporting the several year long war that FAN has been in is that they stole 6M from your alliance? Probably from nations that don't pay enough attention to the game to even know who FAN is?

I don't know where you got that from. That's just our reason for disliking FAN. Before that we were completely neutral, and we still pretty much are.. but FAN has wronged us, whereas NPO has not.

Simply tell your members to stop never send aid to random people that message them, problem solved..

It wasn't random, it was part of peace terms for Wolfpack I believe that we were helping to pay off. Comrade Banned Member somehow knew we were going to send this money to IRON, impersonated someone on IRC and asked the money to be sent to these nations who appeared to be IRON but were actually FAN members.

If NPO wasn't already at war with them, we would've been.

[Dochartaigh]

frankly, i don't really care about FAN all that much. While yes, it would be nice to see them freed, FAN is one of the alliances that will most likely rebuild and 6 months, a year, 2 years would be back at war with NPO and allies. I don't see them as the forgetting or letting go of a grudge type alliance.

As for the using any tactics in a war, yes it is a good thing to help out the underdogs some but in the end, it reflects upon the nature of your alliance and the people within. Even if FAN or Vox got freed and vowed to have removed or stop using their spies, i would never believe nor trust them in the least. Unfortunately, when you go the route that FAN has, you lose all credibility and trust. Sure i respect them for holding onto their principles for this long war but i don't trust them, nor view them as a credible alliance in the least.

Nor would i once they were free. They would be the same FAN that spied, stole money from alliances, and pulled any and all dirty-handed tactics regardless of the reasons behind it. Just because they do not have the reasons, does not mean they would change overnight. It would take a long time for them to truly gain any credibility or trust.

[JayOvfEnnay]

Signed it. I've stated it in my topic earlier and I will state it here again for clarification:

When FAN is free, I will stop fighting NPO in all ways, shapes, and forms on any account whether it be this one or any in the future.

[Canik]

So FAN stole a whole six million from you? Big deal. As for the NPO never exploiting you, of course they wouldn't. You're a lapdog to one of their lapdogs (be proud). Doesn't change the fact NPO and their buddies have extorted and wronged quite a few alliances not tied to them. Quite frankly, not being part of their little hegemony is all the motivation they need to want to wrong an alliance. NPO and Valhalla extorted MK, GR, CIS, and countless others before the last big war. Then they force CIS to disband, and then when they finally roll GR, Polar, STA, and MK, they impose harsh terms, so that they can extort more. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

So if you're going to get upset for being conned out of six million, well, please, give me a break. FAN has no issue with it because you have given your support to Pacifica, and for that you are an enemy (not to mention had NPO not been waging this war you'd still have that six million). But yes, I'm digressing here. My point is, if you're going to condemn FAN for six million, first take a look at those you call friends. NPO, IRON, Valhalla. Take a look at what they're doing, or take moral outrage elsewhere.

I don't care if it's 1 dollar or 1 trillion, we frown deeply on conning and consider it an act of war. It's not about how much money it was.

We have only been allied to allies of NPO for half of our existence, we were never wronged before that by NPO either.

If we limited our allies to only those who weren't allied by some extent of association to NPO, we wouldn't have much to choose from. How many levels of association does one of to be from NPO to not be guilty of whatever crimes they've supposedly committed? Because we're separated by 2 levels. That makes most alliances an enemy of FAN. Not good news for FAN. Congrats?

And we're no one's lapdog, we support our allies exclusively and they support us. It's mutual.

EDIT: What's your point anyway? Is this supposed to convince me to take FAN's side? Because the 6 million wasn't that much money and because you claim NPO has also extorted?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Canik

[SpacingOutMan]

I'd rather see FAN remain in eternal war than watch them set aside their volition and be forced into fighting for peace. One side has to concede for this war to end, and I know (sure as Hell) that FAN won't cave in.

[Reachwind]

Strictly from a game mechanics point of view....

It is not possible for FAN to "rebuild" to the point they would endanger NPO's top nations. Unless those nations completely stopped any forward progress for a year or more.

I seriously doubt a bunch of nations from Gramlins or TOP are going to be joining FAN as soon as FAN is released from terms.

[Bob Sanders]

frankly, i don't really care about FAN all that much. While yes, it would be nice to see them freed, FAN is one of the alliances that will most likely rebuild and 6 months, a year, 2 years would be back at war with NPO and allies. I don't see them as the forgetting or letting go of a grudge type alliance.

As for the using any tactics in a war, yes it is a good thing to help out the underdogs some but in the end, it reflects upon the nature of your alliance and the people within. Even if FAN or Vox got freed and vowed to have removed or stop using their spies, i would never believe nor trust them in the least. Unfortunately, when you go the route that FAN has, you lose all credibility and trust. Sure i respect them for holding onto their principles for this long war but i don't trust them, nor view them as a credible alliance in the least.

Nor would i once they were free. They would be the same FAN that spied, stole money from alliances, and pulled any and all dirty-handed tactics regardless of the reasons behind it. Just because they do not have the reasons, does not mean they would change overnight. It would take a long time for them to truly gain any credibility or trust.

Be careful, that kind of logic is frowned upon here. Blind moral outrage without even slightly considering the situation is the prefered method of discourse on these forums.

[Erwin Schrodinger]

Should NPO come to us and offer us a white peace, we'd likely accept it immediately and continue our work under the structures that alliances at peace are expected to adhere to.

Our job is incomplete, we would decline peace if offered it at this moment.

*note: second quote is from a different thread, if you don't recognize it.

Conflicting interests? (EDIT: Just FYI, SLCB is neutral that I know of in any vox, NPO, FAN, etc. affairs, as am I personally. Just thought it was interesting to point out for some reason at the time.)

Also, I'm too lazy to sign, as it doesn't really concern me all that much.

Edited April 15, 2009 by E Schrodinger

[Merrie Melodies]

Okay, I decided to start a petition to free FAN.

http://freefancn.webs.com/

Go sign if you wish to see a day where FAN can finally be free. I would just do it out of a topic on here, however I'm too lazy to update an OP regularly

EDIT: I just noticed it requires you to enter an e-mail to sign. You can make one up if you want, it doesn't actually matter to me one bit.

I feel fairly confident that if FAN were to leave peace mode they would have peace relatively soon.

[Electron Sponge]

Any peace offered to us would also be peace offered to FAN and OcUK I would assume. That's what I was referring to. Chunky Monkey was talking about a separate peace for Vox, I think.

[Wes Walz Pants]

Meanwhile, we can discuss FAN here and how we are petitioning for their freedom.

From mpol to Nintenderek? FAN, I'm so disappointed in you.

And onward rages the war. :jihad:

Edited April 15, 2009 by Calderone

[Sancus]

If we freed FAN they would disappoint you in being only a shell of their former selves.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Sancus

[Electron Sponge]

If we freed FAN they would disappoint you in being only a shell of their former selves.

Oh thank you kind sirs for saving us from disappointment!

[Sancus]

Oh thank you kind sirs for saving us from disappointment!

Your quite welcome!

[Electron Sponge]

Your quite welcome!

You're*

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

FAN doesn't want to be free. You campaigning on their behalf won't accomplish anything.

[Beauty]

Signed, Free our yellow sphere.

[JayOvfEnnay]

FAN doesn't want to be free. You campaigning on their behalf won't accomplish anything.

On the contrary, they've stated several times that they would accept white peace. It's just that they'll accept nothing less than that.

[Nintenderek]

From mpol to Nintenderek? FAN, I'm so disappointed in you.

And onward rages the war. :jihad:

Good sir, if your trying to compare me to mpol, I may smack you for he was a much better poster than I.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

If we, the innocent bystanders, knew for a fact NPO did wrong and we did nothing, yeah. The thing is, we don't. As far as I can tell FAN did have an agreement in.. GWIII was it? With one of the alliances they fought to take it easy on each other b/c FAN planned to turn on NPO later. NPO claimed to have found evidence of this, and thus attacked FAN. I'm skeptical of anything I hear on CN, but I've seen nothing at all indicating FAN was innocent. Still, we chose not to get involved because we didn't know for sure what happened. Then FAN exploited FEAR out of 6 million and that decided whose side we were on. Meanwhile, NPO has never tried to exploit or do anything underhanded towards FEAR.

So I'm glad you don't buy into that rationalization.

Despite all that, I think it would be interesting for FAN to be free again. I'm all for more drama and politics in CN.

That was the First FAN War, not the Second. Also, no it wasn't. The First FAN War was fought because FAN attack NoV to commemorate D-Day (twas June 5th after all), which was a protectorate of the NPO at the time and resulted in it's expulsion from TI/WUT and attack by said bloc. That was when FAN went from (I believe) in the top alliance slot, though they did unload epic amounts of nukes (at the time) on the NPO, and they were finally given peace, albeit with extremely harsh terms. A few weeks (months?) later, the NPO and the rest of 1V declared war on FAN for violating the peace terms, for having a few members with something just over 20% soldiers. And since then, we've had VietFAN.

Also: 6 million? If that's the reason you hate FAN, I'll send you 6 million right now. Just link me to two nations and you can forget that incident.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Tolkien

[cjav0]

FAN o/

I am sure FAN will come out of the woodworks and fight soon enough. Big words from big bad tough NPO members. Come and fight. NPO doesn't even have the balls to fight their own fights most of the time, and certainly not to handle FAN in its day. It needed its allies while NPO members whined about getting nuked. But now 10 to 1 against tiny crippled nations.. Now they demand a fight.. pathetic.