Iotupa Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I don't know why people continued to make polls off the forums. Make them in the CN blogs or here on the forums so people can't sign it with other people's names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 By any means necessary is fine as long as it doesn't include attack/exploiting innocent bystander alliances. It's not just plain wrong, it's just plain stupid. When you're losing a war the last thing you need is new enemies.I've seen people who have rationalized that there are no innocent bystanders - that there is a well-known wrong being committed and the failure to oppose it is by default supporting it through failure to act against it. Silence is acceptance.I can see some merit in it but I am not sure I completely subscribe to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I don't know why people continued to make polls off the forums. Make them in the CN blogs or here on the forums so people can't sign it with other people's names. Yes, but that involves having to read through pages of a topic and updating the OP regularly, the first of which isn't as much of a problem, but the second I would be too lazy to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanatos Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 post So adorable! /me dies of cuteness Oh yeah, I signed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 As Much as I'd like to see FAN freed, it won't happen. Pacifica isn't just going to stop being at war with FAN because FAN says it will play nice if they do. Nobody is that stupid. They'll have to demonstrate the change on their part before NPO even considers granting them peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Maybe they wouldn't be dedicated to your destruction if you weren't at eternal war with them. But that would only make too much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 As Much as I'd like to see FAN freed, it won't happen. Pacifica isn't just going to stop being at war with FAN because FAN says it will play nice if they do. Nobody is that stupid. They'll have to demonstrate the change on their part before NPO even considers granting them peace. And just how could they do that? By fighting... nicer? I don't think people appreciate the catch-22 NPO has some of us in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virillus Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 As Much as I'd like to see FAN freed, it won't happen. Pacifica isn't just going to stop being at war with FAN because FAN says it will play nice if they do. Nobody is that stupid. They'll have to demonstrate the change on their part before NPO even considers granting them peace. Shortly after the start of the 2nd FAN war, FAN released a statement saying that quite simply, they just wanted to play the game again, that's it. They offered any reperations desired, any surrender terms. - Nothing was accepted, eternal war was imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Shortly after the start of the 2nd FAN war, FAN released a statement saying that quite simply, they just wanted to play the game again, that's it. They offered any reperations desired, any surrender terms. - Nothing was accepted, eternal war was imposed. Then I guess it's time for another one of those. Taking in to account the sudden tug-of-war for PR that some people see themselves in, perhaps they will have better luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willirica Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 o/ FAN signed, man up and set em free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I've seen people who have rationalized that there are no innocent bystanders - that there is a well-known wrong being committed and the failure to oppose it is by default supporting it through failure to act against it. Silence is acceptance.I can see some merit in it but I am not sure I completely subscribe to it. If we, the innocent bystanders, knew for a fact NPO did wrong and we did nothing, yeah. The thing is, we don't. As far as I can tell FAN did have an agreement in.. GWIII was it? With one of the alliances they fought to take it easy on each other b/c FAN planned to turn on NPO later. NPO claimed to have found evidence of this, and thus attacked FAN. I'm skeptical of anything I hear on CN, but I've seen nothing at all indicating FAN was innocent. Still, we chose not to get involved because we didn't know for sure what happened. Then FAN exploited FEAR out of 6 million and that decided whose side we were on. Meanwhile, NPO has never tried to exploit or do anything underhanded towards FEAR. So I'm glad you don't buy into that rationalization. Despite all that, I think it would be interesting for FAN to be free again. I'm all for more drama and politics in CN. Edited April 15, 2009 by Canik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 FAN can set themselves free. This petition will do nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 And just how could they do that? By fighting... nicer? I don't think people appreciate the catch-22 NPO has some of us in. You all made the decision to form and join Vox Populi. Don't play like NPO is oppressing you. Accept the responsibility of your actions and act on them one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 NPO claimed to have found evidence of this, and thus attacked FAN. I'm skeptical of anything I hear on CN, but I've seen nothing at all indicating FAN was innocent. I am not sure I know what you are talking about? I believe the original peace terms that FAN 'violated' to reopen the warfare between them was some very loosely supported numbers regarding soldier levels and other military assets. That is a whole other can of worms though that is probably best left closed. Many felt that the 'violations' were a farce and openly stated as much, but as ES was implying, unless you acted against this your silence condones the actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 You all made the decision to form and join Vox Populi. Don't play like NPO is oppressing you. Accept the responsibility of your actions and act on them one way or another. If we didn't hang together we'd most assuredly be hanging separately. Sure, we could take the easy road out and just surrender, and in doing so negate everything we'd done before that. Or we could choose to believe that what we are doing means something more, and that our nations are a small price to pay to work for the greater good. Should NPO come to us and offer us a white peace, we'd likely accept it immediately and continue our work under the structures that alliances at peace are expected to adhere to. Given that that is a highly unlikely prospect this will happen and that the power structures of CN are about to undergo a very rapid and dramatic change, it behooves NPO to continue their attempts to marginalize us because as more alliances slip from their grasp the more potent and dangerous our message becomes. They can't ZI our message. That terrifies and frustrates them to no end. I think we've acquitted ourselves quite well against the overwhelming odds which we've faced. After 8 months of warfare I don't think you or anyone else can question our integrity, our ability to accept responsibility or our willingness to act. Unlike some people we remain committed to our goals and don't give up, change our names and start arguing for the other side. Yeah I'm talking about you. Many felt that the 'violations' were a farce and openly stated as much, but as ES was implying, unless you acted against this your silence condones the actions. I wasn't implying that. I was saying that some people feel that way, and that I don't necessarily agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer99 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 If you think that a bunch of nations wasted away from months in combat or peace mode are a threat to NPO's well being right now, you guys deserve the pounding you're going to get.Cause of death: Terminal Tunnel Vision combined with Chronic Arrogance You were for it before you were against it. Funny, I didn't see you campaigning to let the GOONS off the hook...or anyone else for that matter when you were a member of the "hegemony." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 FAN should just mass decom all soldiers and leave peace mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 FAN doesn't have much choice in the matter now do they? I don't think NPO is accepting individual surrenders correct me if I'm wrong. I believe their only choices are to fight, quit CN, or reroll. Most chose the latter two options. If quitting CN is an option in a game because someone doesnt like you and wishes to war you endlessly, don't you think something is wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolfe2015 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Question... How can FAN come out of peace and fight if they've been in peace (some of them) for a year now. The time to come out of bill lock alone would take another month or more (I don't know the financial situation well) NPO would just have sitting ducks and it wouldn't be a war at all but another curb stomp... even though it would have been even if they could put up a fight. Lay out terms for the war, be gentlemen about it. 2 nations on 1 nation max, time to come out of bill lock, no nukes... stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 FAN exploited FEAR out of 6 million and that decided whose side we were on. Meanwhile, NPO has never tried to exploit or do anything underhanded towards FEAR. Wasn't it ComradeBannedMember who was responsible for that? If quitting CN is an option in a game because someone doesnt like you and wishes to war you endlessly, don't you think something is wrong with that? Quitting CN is always an option, regardless of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 You were for it before you were against it. Funny, I didn't see you campaigning to let the GOONS off the hook...or anyone else for that matter when you were a member of the "hegemony." Perhaps that's because my alliance wasn't one of the main ones prosecuting the war against GOONS. Maybe you'd want to talk to your allies in IRON about their policies, or GGA and ODN. You also can't possibly know what I discussed privately regarding these affairs, as believe it or not most of my more cogent opinions from that period in time were said behind closed doors. I had no trouble letting you off the hook when you came to me offering surrender after one night of fighting, by the way. You should be the last one criticizing my mercy. I'm eagerly awaiting your answer in the thread set aside for your exercise in repetition-as-truth drive-by character assassination as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 If we didn't hang together we'd most assuredly be hanging separately. Sure, we could take the easy road out and just surrender, and in doing so negate everything we'd done before that. Or we could choose to believe that what we are doing means something more, and that our nations are a small price to pay to work for the greater good. Should NPO come to us and offer us a white peace, we'd likely accept it immediately and continue our work under the structures that alliances at peace are expected to adhere to. Given that that is a highly unlikely prospect this will happen and that the power structures of CN are about to undergo a very rapid and dramatic change, it behooves NPO to continue their attempts to marginalize us because as more alliances slip from their grasp the more potent and dangerous our message becomes. They can't ZI our message. That terrifies and frustrates them to no end.I think we've acquitted ourselves quite well against the overwhelming odds which we've faced. After 8 months of warfare I don't think you or anyone else can question our integrity, our ability to accept responsibility or our willingness to act. Unlike some people we remain committed to our goals and don't give up, change our names and start arguing for the other side. Yeah I'm talking about you. I wasn't implying that. I was saying that some people feel that way, and that I don't necessarily agree with them. My bad, I misread what you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Quitting CN is always an option, regardless of situation. This is true, but you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 You were for it before you were against it. Funny, I didn't see you campaigning to let the GOONS off the hook...or anyone else for that matter when you were a member of the "hegemony." Let's not discuss sponge here, let's discuss Sponge here. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=53654 Meanwhile, we can discuss FAN here and how we are petitioning for their freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Im down. Id rather see FAN freed than GATO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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