Announcement from the Viridian Entente

[Il Impero Romano]

I know you don't want to admit that what happened a week ago is connected to the VE cancellation of those two treaties, and IRON cancelling with VE, and TORN cancelling with you guys, but it is.

I don't feel tough, I quite clearly pointed out that it was Craig, the leader of the alliance you and your allies threatened, who spared you from war (had you gone through with your ultimatum of demanding Craig being expelleded to be ZIed by you guys ).

You threatened INT, they felt threatened by you guys threatening them. Then they got ODN involved, you then in turn felt threatened, accused INT of all kinds of things for sharing your threats with their ally ODN, then even went so far to demand Craig's ZI for that.

And it was ultimately Craig swallowing his pride, doing the right and smart thing, keeping the moral highground, that spared you from the consequences of attacking INT to ZI Craig. Somewhere in there, all the alliances OV and VE are no longer treatied with get involved as well, cause they are treatied to both partners.

They get to watch the impossible behaviour of VE.

When the public apology of Craig is made, VE does nothing. Not for a week. Then IRON cancels with VE, and TORN with OV.

The next day, IRON's cancellation is annouced along with the NPO and GGA treaties as well.

But not just that, all three are insulted in the OP.

And after all that, VE apologizes to INT.

How honorable...

First of all, notice in the OP it says "on a semi related note..." so you are wrong there.

Second, you could also look at it as Craig apologizing for his actions spared you from war...and your point?

Third, you still have no idea what your talking about. You keep coming here and acting like you are , or were, owed something, however my post above still stands. The facts of the matter don't disappear strictly because you disregard them due to you not actually knowing more then what you have been told.

Once again, I invite you to disregard the fact that your allies have settled this situation and continue to put your foot in your mouth.

[Deruvian]

Indeed; it's called unpaid reps.

That doesn't explicitly say that $3m was not sent to those two nations before the tech was sent

[Hell Scream]

I know you don't want to admit that what happened a week ago is connected to the VE cancellation of those two treaties, and IRON cancelling with VE, and TORN cancelling with you guys, but it is.

I don't feel tough, I quite clearly pointed out that it was Craig, the leader of the alliance you and your allies threatened, who spared you from war (had you gone through with your ultimatum of demanding Craig being expelleded to be ZIed by you guys ).

You threatened INT, they felt threatened by you guys threatening them. Then they got ODN involved, you then in turn felt threatened, accused INT of all kinds of things for sharing your threats with their ally ODN, then even went so far to demand Craig's ZI for that.

And it was ultimately Craig swallowing his pride, doing the right and smart thing, keeping the moral highground, that spared you from the consequences of attacking INT to ZI Craig. Somewhere in there, all the alliances OV and VE are no longer treatied with get involved as well, cause they are treatied to both partners.

They get to watch the impossible behaviour of VE.

When the public apology of Craig is made, VE does nothing. Not for a week. Then IRON cancels with VE, and TORN with OV.

The next day, IRON's cancellation is annouced along with the NPO and GGA treaties as well.

But not just that, all three are insulted in the OP.

And after all that, VE apologizes to INT.

How honorable...

"How honorable..."

Hahaha. Are you talking about honor in a NPO-related thread? Is it just me or did NPO betray practically everyone. Ranging from FAN to GOONS.

Let's make an example. You have a cold. We are friends. I stop being your friend and explain it by saying you have a cold. Is that in insult? Truth is not an insult. It may be offensive but truth must always prevail no matter what.

Seeing as how GGA is nothing more than NPO with a different AA...

Edited March 24, 2009 by Hell Scream

[Van Hoo III]

the leader of the alliance you and your allies threatened, who spared you from war

that spared you from the consequences of attacking INT to ZI Craig.

The rest of that post was largely forgettable, but the comments I left behind are lol-worthy. News flash, chief: no alliance fears ODN.

Not. One. Alliance.

[erikz]

You threatened INT, they felt threatened by you guys threatening them. Then they got ODN involved, you then in turn felt threatened, accused INT of all kinds of things for sharing your threats with their ally ODN, then even went so far to demand Craig's ZI for that.

Was that why ODN got IRON involved? Because you scared VE, or did you need real leverage?

And it was ultimately Craig swallowing his pride, doing the right and smart thing, keeping the moral highground, that spared you from the consequences of attacking INT to ZI Craig. Somewhere in there, all the alliances OV and VE are no longer treatied with get involved as well, cause they are treatied to both partners.

They get to watch the impossible behaviour of VE.

Now sir, please tell me what alliances you're talking about, because I only know of the involvement of VE, OV, INT, ODN and IRON - and to a lesser level; TORN.

When the public apology of Craig is made, VE does nothing. Not for a week. Then IRON cancels with VE, and TORN with OV.

The next day, IRON's cancellation is annouced along with the NPO and GGA treaties as well.

But not just that, all three are insulted in the OP.

And after all that, VE apologizes to INT.

How honorable...

1. I don't see any insulting comments in the OP; maybe you should re-read it just to be sure.

2. Don't you dare talk about insulting and being honorable when you're the one who referred to my alliance as being 'the cancer of the orange sphere'.

[Porkers.]

You know, if I didn't know that this wasn't the truth, it might make sense.

But as I do, I know that the cancellations are related to VE's aggressive and failed attempt of blackmailing a smaller alliance, VE then realizing a week later how stupid they were, but the allies of VE - through which VE only felt they were in the position to threaten and blackmail anyone in the first place - long since realized what an "ally" VE was, IRON reacted, and so you thought it were best to go on the offensive, post an apology so that you don't appear completely as dishonorable for the way you announced things, and then hoped for the quick PR victory.

You simply are not informed about what really happened, your ally is not telling you the truth, if I were you I'd ask them again to tell you what really happened.

And we stuck with them, and for that VE wanted to attack INT. Think about that, and then go back to repeating your old stereotypes again.

I know who I believe, the alliance who has stood by my alliance for two years, an alliance that would fight for what is right, an alliance who has morals and stand by the treaties they sign, (treaties which include a mutual defence clause) true brothers, as true allies should be.

ODN however..

[shilo]

First of all, notice in the OP it says "on a semi related note..." so you are wrong there.

Second, you could also look at it as Craig apologizing for his actions spared you from war...and your point?

Third, you still have no idea what your talking about. You keep coming here and acting like you are , or were, owed something, however my post above still stands. The facts of the matter don't disappear strictly because you disregard them due to you not actually knowing more then what you have been told.

Once again, I invite you to disregard the fact that your allies have settled this situation and continue to put your foot in your mouth.

It's not semi related, with the whole incident being the cause of this thread in the first place.

Why would I look at it that way. Your alliances and your allies VE threatening our ally- I wouldn't have minded defending my ally against you two bullies, it would have felt good. I was partially saddened that you didn't stick to your ultimatum.

Well, I know more than you would like to, I guess that's the reason your alliance mate wants to forbid me from posting. I don't act like I were owed anything.

VE attempted to spin them loosing 3 allies as something they controlled, and then even insulted them, while it was VE that caused the loss of those 3 allies by their behaviour in the INT situation.

So the facts stand, no matter whether you like that or not.

[Lincongrad]

"How honorable..."

Hahaha. Are you talking about honor in a NPO-related thread? Is it just me or did NPO betray practically everyone. Ranging from FAN to GOONS.

Let's make an example. You have a cold. We are friends. I stop being your friend and explain it by saying you have a cold. Is that in insult? Truth is not an insult. It may be offensive but truth must always prevail no matter what.

Seeing as how GGA is nothing more than NPO with a different AA...

Here's a better example:

Your (not yours personally, just an example...) spouse is fat and ugly. You decide to get a divorce because of this. True or not, you still shouldn't tell her this. It's rude. But it's true. You're saying you'd use that as a reason?

If so, remind me never to get married to you.

That being said, the apology to INT is still very classy and I do not judge VE for the cancellation, only their presentation of it.

[enderland]

So the facts stand, no matter whether you like that or not.

VE canceled two of those three treaties.

That seems to have been controlled by them.

[Il Impero Romano]

It's not semi related, with the whole incident being the cause of this thread in the first place.

You over estimate your importance, take another look at what Hoo said.

Why would I look at it that way. Your alliances and your allies VE threatening our ally- I wouldn't have minded defending my ally against you two bullies, it would have felt good. I was partially saddened that you didn't stick to your ultimatum.

Well, I know more than you would like to, I guess that's the reason your alliance mate wants to forbid me from posting. I don't act like I were owed anything.

VE attempted to spin them loosing 3 allies as something they controlled, and then even insulted them, while it was VE that caused the loss of those 3 allies by their behaviour in the INT situation.

Once again you over estimate your importance. Also, you cant actually think there is not more to the situation then you, a non government member of an alliance who's name is not Viridian Entente, know about? Really...you are truly wrong in almost every way.

So the facts stand, no matter whether you like that or not.

It is you who does not like it. Like I have said time and time again...we have full logs that we disclose to our friends and allies...its not difficult to understand. Its not disputed. Why do you think Craig apologized? Its not an issue. The version of events you assert as facts is based on your interpretation, and ours is based on not only being there, but being able to concretely prove it.

Honestly, this is the 3rd time you have put your foot in your mouth but you may want to stop before you get warned for derailing the topic.

[Branimir]

"How honorable..."

Hahaha. Are you talking about honor in a NPO-related thread? Is it just me or did NPO betray practically everyone. Ranging from FAN to GOONS.

Let's make an example. You have a cold. We are friends. I stop being your friend and explain it by saying you have a cold. Is that in insult? Truth is not an insult. It may be offensive but truth must always prevail no matter what.

Seeing as how GGA is nothing more than NPO with a different AA...

NPO was quite amicable in this announcement of yours, I believe that here really is no need for such a discourse based on blatantly false accusations and harsh tones.

It is not going to lead us anywhere.

[shilo]

"How honorable..."

Hahaha. Are you talking about honor in a NPO-related thread? Is it just me or did NPO betray practically everyone. Ranging from FAN to GOONS.

Let's make an example. You have a cold. We are friends. I stop being your friend and explain it by saying you have a cold. Is that in insult? Truth is not an insult. It may be offensive but truth must always prevail no matter what.

Seeing as how GGA is nothing more than NPO with a different AA...

What has NPO betraying or not betraying someone to do with your attempt to bully around INT?

The rest of that post was largely forgettable, but the comments I left behind are lol-worthy. News flash, chief: no alliance fears ODN.

Not. One. Alliance.

I wish VE truly would have had the balls to not back down on their ultimatum.

Was that why ODN got IRON involved? Because you scared VE, or did you need real leverage?

ODN and IRON are allies, INT is a member of OUT as well as IRON. When a partner is threatened with war, I assume you wouldn't inform your allies about this?

Now sir, please tell me what alliances you're talking about, because I only know of the involvement of VE, OV, INT, ODN and IRON - and to a lesser level; TORN.

Those I meant.

1. I don't see any insulting comments in the OP; maybe you should re-read it just to be sure.

2. Don't you dare talk about insulting and being honorable when you're the one who referred to my alliance as being 'the cancer of the orange sphere'.

1.

The Viridian Entente does not wish to be allied to those whose support will only be given when they deem fit.

The Viridian Entente does not wish to be allied to those who attempt to use political pressure to influence our sovereign actions.

The Viridian Entente does not wish to be allied to those who cannot be honest, forthright, and frank with us about their intentions and reasoning.

Let's say that's not a nice way to depart, shall we

2. You mean during the UJW, 1 1/2 years ago, to which I personally apologized in all counts in an open letter to the entire alliance?

[Big Z]

You threatened INT, they felt threatened by you guys threatening them. Then they got ODN involved, you then in turn felt threatened, accused INT of all kinds of things for sharing your threats with their ally ODN, then even went so far to demand Craig's ZI for that.

And it was ultimately Craig swallowing his pride, doing the right and smart thing, keeping the moral highground, that spared you from the consequences of attacking INT to ZI Craig. Somewhere in there, all the alliances OV and VE are no longer treatied with get involved as well, cause they are treatied to both partners.

They get to watch the impossible behaviour of VE.

Considering I've seen every one of the logs involved in the incident, including Proximus's logs, I'd say your analysis of the situation is quite off. The actual situation was involving the USA-Int merger. Int talked to OV about potentially letting USA off their terms earlier so they could merge. They came to an agreement to cut the terms down to 400 tech on their end, however, Int never talked to VE about the merger and got their agreement. Later, after Int talked to VE, both parties agreed that the merger would be possible and that on their end, the terms would be cut down to 750 tech in 3m/100 deals. That makes for a grand total of 1150 tech, down from an original total of 1500 tech. When the situation appears finished, ODN comes and accuses VE of extortion, saying VE was present at the original conference between Int and OV, saying they agreed to 400 tech. However, logs confirm that there was no VE representative present in the first conference between OV-Int. ODN then accuses VE of faking logs and were belligerent towards VE. Proximus, the ODN secretary of defense, then threatens VE in another conversation with a third party. After numerous conferences, some blustering and belligerence by both sides, and allies trying to mediate, the situation gets resolved as we know it. An apology by Craig and later VE apologizes for their part in the diplomatic faux pas.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Big Z

[auto98]

Let's make an example. You have a cold. We are friends. I stop being your friend and explain it by saying you have a cold. Is that in insult? Truth is not an insult. It may be offensive but truth must always prevail no matter what.

If someone said that they are no longer my friend because I have a cold, then they were clearly only ever pretending to be my friend.

So, in order to be telling "truth" now, you must have been lying previously?

Edited March 24, 2009 by auto98

[Galapagos]

I don't understand what ODN's vested interest is here.

Iron and NPO know how to make their own propaganda. They don't need shilo's amateur work.

[Lincongrad]

I don't understand what ODN's vested interest is here.

Iron and NPO know how to make their own propaganda. They don't need shilo's amateur work.

ODN is primarily concerned with INT, for obvious reasons.

[Porkers.]

I wish VE truly would have had the balls to not back down on their ultimatum.

Big words, little britches.

What are you going to do about it?

Form says, nothing

I bet one or two alliances have been heard saying: "I wish ODN would have had the balls not to back down on their treaty"

[Mr Duffy]

Bravo VE for entertaining the public, it would be even better if you had some size 20 shoes some face paint and a red nose.

like what you're wearing right?

[shilo]

Considering I've seen every one of the logs involved in the incident, including Proximus's logs, I'd say your analysis of the situation is quite off. The actual situation was involving the USA-Int merger. Int talked to OV about potentially letting USA off their terms earlier so they could merge. They came to an agreement to cut the terms down to 400 tech on their end, however, Int never talked to VE about the merger and got their agreement. Later, after Int talked to VE, both parties agreed that the merger would be possible and that on their end, the terms would be cut down to 750 tech in 3m/100 deals. That makes for a grand total of 1150 tech, down from an original total of 1500 tech. When the situation appears finished, ODN comes and accuses VE of extortion, saying VE was present at the original conference between Int and OV, saying they agreed to 400 tech. However, logs confirm that there was no VE representative present in the first conference between OV-Int. ODN then accuses VE of faking logs and were belligerent towards VE. Proximus, the ODN secretary of defense, then threatens VE in another conversation. After numerous conferences, some blustering and belligerence by both sides, and allies trying to mediate, the situation gets resolved as we know it. An apology by Int and later VE apologizes for their part in the diplomatic faux pas.

This is not quite what happened, as this version looks like ultimately VE was the victim of a billingerent ODN.

You know, even I have to admit, that's... well funny

Edited March 24, 2009 by shilo

[erikz]

1.

Let's say that's not a nice way to depart, shall we

Agreed. It's not the nicest way; but as mentioned over and over before in this thread, it's also not the worst. There is no way that these comments where put there to intentionally hurt said alliances.

2. You mean during the UJW, 1 1/2 years ago, to which I personally apologized in all counts in an open letter to the entire alliance?

Yes, because we over at the cozy side of the line reminded your leaders (you weren't a leader anymore) about what you had said. You then came over, forced, to make an excuse. You should have made that excuse on your own accords.

I wonder if you would have made that excuse if FOK wasn't in Q at that moment in time.

[Big Z]

This is not quite what happened, as this version looks like ultimately VE was the victim of a billingerent ODN.

You know, even I have to admit, that's... well funny

That's what exactly happened. ODN was belligerent towards VE at the beginning alongside accusing them of extortion and faking logs. VE then retaliated with their own belligerence. Perhaps you should ask your government for full logs, considering you seem to be under misguided beliefs.

[Il Impero Romano]

This is not quite what happened, as this version looks like ultimately VE was the victim of a billingerent ODN.

You know, even I have to admit, that's... well funny

At this point you have officially dug your self in a deeper hole then you can get out of. Continue to ignore the fact that we have facts to back up our time line. There was no backing down, there was a diplomatic settlement on a public apology once all had cooler heads. Z's version is correct. Ask your government.

Also, this it truly not at issue in this thread nor is it at issue at all.

....4th

Edited March 24, 2009 by Il Impero Romano

[King Srqt]

Bravo VE for entertaining the public, it would be even better if you had some size 20 shoes some face paint and a red nose.

weren't you the one condemning VE for being childish earlier? you are perhaps one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum good sir.

To the International, this is why I really wish you went to the RIA for mediation like we offered, we were at the table as a neutral mutual ally who really just wanted the situation resolved in a way that was beneficial to both parties. I hope you see that going to the local schoolyard bullies is just getting your alliance and the whole situation used as political leverage and propaganda while people throw out half truths.

I just hope that you see those allies are only so supportive now because they can use supporting you for unrelated political gain and that if they couldn't have they would not have thought twice about turning their backs on you..

[Electron Sponge]

Someone send me the full logs and I'll host them for everyone to see so we can settle this stupid argument, please. electron_sponge@newpacificorder.net

[shilo]

Agreed. It's not the nicest way; but as mentioned over and over before in this thread, it's also not the worst. There is no way that these comments where put there to intentionally hurt said alliances.

And why is there no way comments that even you admit are not the nicest happened to be in the OP?Because VE wanted to be really thorough in explaining or...?

Yes, because we over at the cozy side of the line reminded your leaders (you weren't a leader anymore) about what you had said. You then came over, forced, to make an excuse. You should have made that excuse on your own accords.

I wonder if you would have made that excuse if FOK wasn't in Q at that moment in time.

I wasn't forced, however, I didn't even think about them until I was reminded by our back then SoS that I had said it and that FOK was truly (and rightly so) offended. I then on my own wrote an open letter, but of course the government of the day was involved, as it was a matter concerning foreign affairs.

For me, I never quite thought about it until then, but in retroperspective I wish I hadn't said in the first place.

But this topic is not about our short but not nice encounter in the past but about VE.

If you wish anything else to know/hear, pm me.