Pastoralis Praeeminentiae

[Noctis Lucis Caelum]

1 hour ago, Mandystalin said:

And here we return to my post - are we being rolled for simply harbouring somebody who was (supposedly) plotting, or are we being rolled for (supposedly) plotting ourselves? It is a bad sign when you can't even state categorically what false reason you are using to attack us

Assuming you really don't know what Blackatron and Gh0s7 were up to, here is my understanding of the minimum you guys are guilty of.

 

Your leader was aware of the plotting by Gh0s7 & chose to keep him anyways, thinking as long as Gh0s7 was doing FA work for the other alliances he had duel membership in while on your AA as he did the conspiring; somehow that would excuse you guys keeping him on the AA as he was doing it or he could play the victim card.

 

So Blackatron was certainly conspiring with Gh0s7, by letting him do the plotting for him while on your AA in exchange for Gh0s7 doing the leg work. Since Blackatron doesn't strike me as the kind of guy capable of getting any kind of coalition together on his own. Although he placed all his hopes on Gh0s7 being capable enough to do it, which clearly wasn't the case and instead got you guys rolled.

 

Whether Blackatron kept the rest of you in the loop on what he was up to doesn't really matter, maybe he thought you guys were expendable enough to risk in order to have a chance at revenge toward Oculus without your knowledge. So your leader conspiring to keep someone on the AA who he knew was plotting against Oculus & their allies is among what I know for sure. With him blowing off Gh0s7's scheming as him doing FA work for many others as well, when asked about why he was harboring someone who was requesting me sanctioned everywhere for no reason other than a "grudge" as described by some of the Senators. Even though I had done nothing to Gh0s7 and considered him an insignificant nobody up until he decided to put such a big effort into getting my attention.

 

Also I know for a fact Gh0s7 was trying to use those sanctions as leverage against me & claiming to make these demands on behalf of the yet unannounced Meridian Bloc; despite being aware of my treaty agreement with Non Grata & him still being a member of TTK on your AA. He also told TIE to make that thread accusing me of blackmail, even though I never blackmailed them; in an attempt to provoke me into hitting him while on your AA. Also when I asked Blackatron why his member was requesting me sanctioned, he claimed Gh0s7 does FA work for a great number of alliances & wouldn't comment further when asked why he would keep someone like that on his AA. So Gh0s7 was conspiring against someone he knew was allied to Non Grata from your AA & Blackatron knew about it; as well as being perfectly alright with it.

 

So getting other alliances to place sanctions on me for him in order to try provoking a Non Grata ally into war with you guys is among the things he's done, which easily could have started a conflict there had I shown less restraint. (Although personally I consider being nuked a lesser offense than someone using back handed methods to try getting me sanctioned.)

 

So Blackatron & Gh0s7 have done plenty to make you guys a lot of enemies beyond the proof of him conspiring against Oculus directly & getting caught (Which I'm not going to get into the details of). Although personally I considered his round about way of getting me sanctioned for no reason just enough cause for you guys to get rolled when Blackatron made clear he was completely fine with that; despite knowing of our Non Grata treaty.

 

However sometimes patience is best rather than making rash decisions & it was better to let you guys keeping digging yourselves into a deeper hole; rather than declare over the frivolous sanctions right then and there. So your leadership along with Gh0s7 have done plenty to provoke a war with just what is already public knowledge.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Noctis Lucis Caelum

[The Zigur]

If people only read Vladimir's essays and attempted to gain real understanding of CN maybe they wouldn't come of up with half-baked schemes that have no chance of working.

[DeathAdder]

2 hours ago, The Big Bad said:

 

So you are going with the, we are to stupid to have done this defense?  Gotcha.  Not the way I would have played it but, you all do you.

 

If you bother (I don't recommend it) to read  some of their other textual vomit, you'll find that's the usual route Mandy and others in TTK/Allies of TTK take.

Most of that side has played the victim card since Winter War, so, that's the only defense they know to spout these days.

 

Expected/10.

[Neo Uruk]

3 hours ago, CrinkledStraw said:

 

What. action?

 

3 hours ago, CrinkledStraw said:

 

What. stuff.

 

"CB isn't clear." "YES IT IS." "Okay, what is it?" "Actions and stuff."

conspiracy/plotting is pretty clear

 

if they drop particular logs they may be giving up a leak, i suppose.

[commanderragnar]

"There's a war."

 

 

 

>Visits War Target list.

 

Quote

There are not currently any available targets within range of your nation!

 

[DeathAdder]

Admin really needs to add a like button. >.>

[CrinkledStraw]

9 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

Admin really needs to add a like button. >.>

 

Agreed. 

 

Ragnar, that was beautiful.

[Mandystalin]

12 hours ago, The Big Bad said:

 

So you are going with the, we are to stupid to have done this defense?  Gotcha.  Not the way I would have played it but, you all do you. Out of curiosity what CB were you going to use if we sat around and did nothing and let you come knocking first?  Spying? Plotting?  Past actions?  Or none at all as is so common now? 

 

I am going with nothing - I am simply following good debating technique by not getting sucked into a different argument and thereby losing sight of my point.

 

And my point remains the utter absurdity that all of Oculus can go to war against my beloved little alliance... and yet they can't agree why.

 

 

Until this issue is addressed, there is just no point in carrying on the debate 

[Auctor]

If you're not in communication with your government and how it's conducting its affairs, that's hardly on us. They've been more than forthcoming with more than a few others about their intentions.

[Mandystalin]

12 hours ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:

Assuming you really don't know what Blackatron and Gh0s7 were up to, here is my understanding of the minimum you guys are guilty of...

 

If you cut out all the supposition (and unless I'm reading it wrong you seem to think Blackatron is our leader?) the only thing of substance is that Gh0s7 requested sanctions against you on behalf of an entirely different alliance (ie: not TTK). Now I really don't want to touch your history with a barge-pole, I'm sure it can rattle on for days about who did which to why. But Alliance A wanting 1-man micro B sanctioned equals Alliance C's crime? Sigh.

[Mandystalin]

2 minutes ago, Auctor said:

If you're not in communication with your government and how it's conducting its affairs, that's hardly on us. They've been more than forthcoming with more than a few others about their intentions.

 

Maybe you need to do your homework on TTK and its government  

[Auctor]

Maybe alliances that don't want to become targets shouldn't have people conducting their alliance business that can't be bothered to conceal their intentions with a little basic operational security procedure.

[Lord Hitchcock]

10 minutes ago, Mandystalin said:

 

Maybe you need to do your homework on TTK and its government  

 

There is plenty of material out there

[Captain Enema]

Doom Squad is ready and willing to serve as a place of peace and respite for those members of the TTK who wish to seek refugee during these trying times. While it is still early in the conflict, those who have embraced the High Church's compassion and have exorcised the demons of their alliance ought to seek out a high churchman and ask him or her what they should do in order to seek the safety of Doom Squad. 

 

 

[Rustikus]

What stands out from reading this thread is:

1. Nations within Oculus do not seem to have a common understanding of why this war was declared.

2. Lot of claims thrown around but no evidence to back it up.

3. People not knowing who are in the TTK gov and nothing shown on their active involvement in any plot.

4. People thinking that the TTK members chat on Discord has any info that is sensitive and therefore that being masked to be there shows some great access to any valuable info. I think the most sensitive info in that chat during peace time has been advice on how to build someone's nation or arrangement of trade deals.

 

So it still stands that a former TTK member did something after leaving TTK or even during without any involvement from TTK.

[Lord Hitchcock]

7 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

What stands out from reading this thread is:

1. Nations within Oculus do not seem to have a common understanding of why this war was declared.

2. Lot of claims thrown around but no evidence to back it up.

3. People not knowing who are in the TTK gov and nothing shown on their active involvement in any plot.

4. People thinking that the TTK members chat on Discord has any info that is sensitive and therefore that being masked to be there shows some great access to any valuable info. I think the most sensitive info in that chat during peace time has been advice on how to build someone's nation or arrangement of trade deals.

 

So it still stands that a former TTK member did something after leaving TTK or even during without any involvement from TTK.

 

Have you ever considered that Oculus is giving the guilty parties a chance to step forward before judgement day arrives?

 

I'm sure they have a list and I'm sure the guilty parties know who they are.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Lord Hitchcock

[Rustikus]

So continued no evidence which leads me to conclude that there is no evidence just excuses to blame the actions of a former TTK member on the AA. That is fine just means more casualties for me but it would be nice if people would just admit the lack of any evidence.

[Lord Hitchcock]

2 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

So continued no evidence which leads me to conclude that there is no evidence just excuses to blame the actions of a former TTK member on the AA. That is fine just means more casualties for me but it would be nice if people would just admit the lack of any evidence.

 

There isn't a lack of evidence. There is, in fact, a plethora of evidence.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Lord Hitchcock

[CrinkledStraw]

There's SO much evidence. 

 

Can people see it? No. Well...okay then. 

[DeathAdder]

2 minutes ago, Rustikus said:

So continued no evidence which leads me to conclude that there is no evidence just excuses to blame the actions of a former TTK member on the AA. That is fine just means more casualties for me.

 

If only your listed MoD felt the same...

[Mogar]

You mean the two that you let into PM intentionally so you could make this exact post?

[DeathAdder]

1 minute ago, Mogar said:

You mean the two that you let into PM intentionally so you could make this exact post?

 

Just him.

 

The other two were already there.

[CrinkledStraw]

To be fair, they have 3 nations in PM. 

 

EDIT: DeathAdder got it. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by CrinkledStraw

[Auctor]

This idea that we're supposed to cough up sources inside an ongoing conspiracy and do your own internal policing for you is silly as all get out. This idea that any of us owes any of you anything is foolishness.

[Rustikus]

16 minutes ago, DeathAdder said:

 

If only your listed MoD felt the same...

 

He does feel the same, he will come out again and do what he always does cause lot of damage to his enemies.

 

2 minutes ago, Auctor said:

This idea that we're supposed to cough up sources inside an ongoing conspiracy and do your own internal policing for you is silly as all get out. This idea that any of us owes any of you anything is foolishness.

 

You have not shown anything at all. No action from TTK gov has been listed. The only thing that is really mentioned are actions of Gh0s7 (former member of TTK that has never been part of gov). Nothing that shows that any of this was taken up with TTK gov prior to the attack so therefore I assume based on what I have seen that there is nothing there. You can keep your "source" out of this but I would want at least an evidence that this was brought up to someone in TTK gov. Otherwise this is just your excuse and nothing else.